National Forum

Derry v Armagh - 2023 Ulster SFC Final

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After a slow enough start I thought it was a very enjoyable game. Particularly from about the last 20 minutes of normal time through extra time and then of course the drama of penalties.

I hate that we now need penalties to decide such a big game but with the schedule so jam packed I see the need to have a result on the day.

Armagh will be kicking themselves this morning, the concession of such a stupid goal in such a tight match left them chasing the game throughout. Not having security around their kick out in extra time when they lost 3 in a row going long will haunt them for awhile. They were unlucky too though, they should have had a free in at the death in normal time when Lynch over carried the ball along the endline but such is the nature of the game.

Congratulations to Derry on an historic achievement, some turnaround in the last few years!

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13780 - 15/05/2023 10:06:31    2478575

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "i think the earlier Dublin teams with the two Brogans were much better to watch. After Donegals jimmy mcguiness defeat of Dublin which in hindsight would have been a one off Dublin changed from playing beautiful open skilled football to much more robotic low risk keep possesion game. It was such a pity because if they had kept playing the the same great football they would have still won the 6 in a row because of the skill set of their players."
There is no way Dublin win 6 in a row without the 2014 semi-final defeat imo.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13780 - 15/05/2023 10:12:59    2478582

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Replying To germac:  "Not a classic but tense stuff all the same ,Just to mention a couple of players, Rodgers and Glass top top players and top men no nasty stuff no diving no mouthing they just play the game the way it should be played , they would walk onto any team any time"
Not so sure about Rogers. Watch what he did to Campbell when that very last free in was awarded to Armagh. I don't think he was the player who fouled, but he still came over and dropped his knee onto Campbell's leg. Checked first to make sure the ref wasn't looking.

jam83 (Galway) - Posts: 172 - 15/05/2023 10:23:43    2478597

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "Take a look at Down v Meath in 91 semi final or Derry b Down in 94. That's how football should be played. Fast and skilful not glorified soccer like we see nowadays passing it across the back 4 then back to the keeper. Even Scoccer knocked the back pass to the keeper on the head years ago."
That's 30 years ago. Most people have given up making the argument you're making. Football has evolved. The ship has sailed. Embrace it for what it is or just comparing it to decades ago.

jam83 (Galway) - Posts: 172 - 15/05/2023 10:26:43    2478600

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Replying To Derryman2:  "Brilliant Post.
But the hoof it in brigade don't really understand modern football. They still yearn for the laced ball that weighed 4 pound and boots laced to the knees."
we all understand modern football and know that in general football in the eighties was of a very poor standard so you are missing the point. Many games now are pure manure to watch from a Cavan point of view the ulster final against Donegal in 2020 and the two games against Armagh in 2019 were brilliant games of football not only because we won the score against armagh was 23 points to 1-17 also the game last year against Donegal which we lost great catching scoring and attacking football with both teams on the four encounters going all out to win the game with little blanket defence.
why is Club underage football now the best to watch where you will see all of the skills of the game with little or no negative tactics and players afraid to express themselves sure you may see alot of errors and wides but is not much better to see this than endless handpassing by zoombie players that have the skill coached out of them.

Now adays you normally only get a proper game of football breaking out when all is nearly lost and the players know they have to forget all the BS coached into them and go for the game like Monaghan against Tyrone a few weeks ago.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 482 - 15/05/2023 10:48:12    2478608

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Replying To jam83:  "That's 30 years ago. Most people have given up making the argument you're making. Football has evolved. The ship has sailed. Embrace it for what it is or just comparing it to decades ago."
The basics haven't changed. Yes players are fitter nowadays. But you thinking the game has evolved for the better? Enough said.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 15/05/2023 11:02:14    2478619

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Replying To jam83:  "Not so sure about Rogers. Watch what he did to Campbell when that very last free in was awarded to Armagh. I don't think he was the player who fouled, but he still came over and dropped his knee onto Campbell's leg. Checked first to make sure the ref wasn't looking."
Spot on with that.
Absolutely no need for him to drop the knee on campbell there.
I presume Brolly wont go in on a Derry man Rodgers (like he did on Sean Cavanagh) either for the rugby tackle on Jarly og that earned the black card.

Now to balance - the diddy nipping and twisting of McGuigan finger by one of our defenders was also uncalled for. Concentrate more on marking him and keeping quiet than that *****. McGuigan is a class act.

Was a lack of discipline in some of our tackling which led to some very scorable frees. Morgan being a culprit. We need to cut that out.

The soft goal was a killer, kept us chasing all game in such a tight game. Very poor mistake from Ethan but kicking 2 scores from play and then a great kick pass that was the making of another score seen him redeem himself.

We need to find a way to get over the line in these tight games. 2 up with 3mins of extra time we can only blame ourselves. Likewise the extra time game with Galway we could have won it there.
Penos an awful way to lose but at the same time, theres no good way to lose. We knew the craic coming into this. A lot more practise needed now they are here to stay.

ArmaghAndProud (Armagh) - Posts: 35 - 15/05/2023 11:13:29    2478628

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Replying To Derryman2:  "Brilliant Post.
But the hoof it in brigade don't really understand modern football. They still yearn for the laced ball that weighed 4 pound and boots laced to the knees."
The soccer analogy is only like for like if handpassing didn't exist. There is a real skill in only being allowed pass and receive the ball with the foot. Saying that the Barca tika taka was still boring at times. There is surely a happy medium. The hoof it aimlessly isn't a great spectacle but more quick attacking kick passing raises the energy and excitement of games.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1000 - 15/05/2023 11:19:44    2478631

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Replying To MesAmis:  "There is no way Dublin win 6 in a row without the 2014 semi-final defeat imo."
You're very welcome my friend :D

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9546 - 15/05/2023 12:01:42    2478652

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Replying To MesAmis:  "There is no way Dublin win 6 in a row without the 2014 semi-final defeat imo."
Correct. They win 8 in a row :D

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5215 - 15/05/2023 12:01:52    2478653

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Nobody's asking for high balls to be lumped in aimlessly to a one man full forward line. As a spectacle, quicker transition would help, leaving a couple of lads in the inside forwards and making darting runs to the corners. Targeted foot passing to willing runners. The game as a spectacle is in trouble and this isn't aimed specifically at yesterday's spectacles in Leinster and Ulster but it's a hard watch. You have to call a spade a spade. Quicker transition is the key to it. It's sad to see a throw-in these days and the possession-losing team all sprinting back inside their 45 to setup a blanket zonal defence. The game has certainly evolved but not for the better.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 15/05/2023 12:36:49    2478656

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I think some of these systems are designed to justify the amount of time, resources and money spent on county (and indeed club) teams. In theory, each county panel contains the county's best footballers. Why not let them play football? You see it every so often in Championship. I can think of Galway Armagh as a good example last year. Both teams seemed to just lose the shackles and went off and tried to win it. It was amazing stuff.

It was a bit similar yesterday. For a wee period there, both teams went off the cuff a bit and a great bit of excitement unfolded. That to me is what real Championship football is. Do or die. Get your win/medal or die trying!

Now I know people will probably think, what's that eejit from Donegal on about, wasn't it them up there that came up with a lot of the defensive stuff? Yes it was, and we deservedly won an All Ireland from it. But it was over a decade ago. Times have changed and teams need to move on from it.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9546 - 15/05/2023 12:41:41    2478659

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Replying To Joxer:  "Nobody's asking for high balls to be lumped in aimlessly to a one man full forward line. As a spectacle, quicker transition would help, leaving a couple of lads in the inside forwards and making darting runs to the corners. Targeted foot passing to willing runners. The game as a spectacle is in trouble and this isn't aimed specifically at yesterday's spectacles in Leinster and Ulster but it's a hard watch. You have to call a spade a spade. Quicker transition is the key to it. It's sad to see a throw-in these days and the possession-losing team all sprinting back inside their 45 to setup a blanket zonal defence. The game has certainly evolved but not for the better."
Hit the nail on the head there.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 15/05/2023 12:46:09    2478660

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Real Championship football doesn't start until it's a knockout game, yesterdays Ulster final was a great contest, there was nobody leaving the stadium or switching off the tv but fellas still know there is a lot of football still to be played until we get to the quarter final stages and it's knockout football.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3071 - 15/05/2023 13:10:15    2478668

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Great game yesterday, thoroughly enjoyed it. In extra time I thought both sides might be cagey but they kept going for the win.

A credit to both counties, well done.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 15/05/2023 13:15:41    2478669

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Replying To Breffni1969:  "The basics haven't changed. Yes players are fitter nowadays. But you thinking the game has evolved for the better? Enough said."
I never said for the better. It's just morphed into a different style of game. Yes it's way less end to end. But if you get a mix of tactical handpassing to find openings, along with end to end at times, it can be brilliant if teams are evenly matched.

jam83 (Galway) - Posts: 172 - 15/05/2023 13:28:15    2478677

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The gaa need a rule change to prevent present coaches and stats men who have zero interest in football and only want to get results to justify their wages from destroying the game.
You cant expect players to play any football when you have 30 players congested in one third of the pitch so need to be a rule change to prevent this.
We need to get away from modern coaches spending so much time trying to get the ball into this so called scoring zone which is bs the scoring zone should be when you cross midfield and two points should be awarded for any point scored outside the scoring zone even if this means having a new line marked on the pitch.
Gaelic football is still a great spectacle when teams approch it with the right attitude but is currently being destroyed by coaches and stats men trying to justify their wages they would be happy with one point to nil final score.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 482 - 15/05/2023 13:40:22    2478681

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I wonder why they can't bring the 25th anniversary team out to the middle of the pitch. They just present them to the main stand and you can't make out what the loud speaker is saying.

PattyONeill (Derry) - Posts: 251 - 15/05/2023 13:51:13    2478685

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Replying To jam83:  "I never said for the better. It's just morphed into a different style of game. Yes it's way less end to end. But if you get a mix of tactical handpassing to find openings, along with end to end at times, it can be brilliant if teams are evenly matched."
Both those teams yesterday were evenly matched. For 65 minutes it was slow tedious buildup .
Yes there were glimpses of good fielding and some nice scores taken.
You would expect nothing less after all .
Mc Geeney in his post match analysis reckons it was a fantastic match. Close maybe , His definition of Fantastic is totally different to mine .

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 15/05/2023 13:54:11    2478687

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Replying To Jinxie:  "Absolutely.

He's ruined so many threads here down the years.

The chip on his shoulder is huge. Someone commented on the colour clash earlier, and rightly so, and he even had a pop over that with the only thing he can even think of.. oh leinster football bla bla....

For a man of his considerable years, one would expect a little more maturity."
100% agreed .

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2842 - 15/05/2023 14:37:19    2478702

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