National Forum

Derry v Armagh - 2023 Ulster SFC Final

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Replying To Joxer:  "Dreadful quality, colour clash, keeper wearing all black just like the referee. Bit of a shambles for a provisional final."
What's a Provisional final?

Stoutlad (Monaghan) - Posts: 7 - 14/05/2023 21:29:07    2478501

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "if you cant see any thing wrong with 30 players trying to play football in one third of the area of the pitch and 90 percent of passing consists of a fisted pass to a colleague beside you then you are easily entertained. There were no skills on display in Clones today just very fit players who have had their natural abilities destroyed by stats men and defensive coaching gone mad. yes it was a close match which kept the crowd interested but was some manure to watch. Unless there is a change in the rules ie each team should have to keep 4 players in their half of the field at all times and two points awarded for every score kicked outside the so called scoring zone that every team has become obsessed with trying to work the ball into the game is finished.imagine players practicing kicking long range points instead of the sideways manure they are at."
It's like the old debate about Jose Mourinho's teams in soccer. His teams were utter crap to watch but they were very successful. You always have the purists who need to be entertained every second of the game but the Derry fans today couldn't have cared less how the game was won nor would Armagh fans if they had won it.

Jazzyjeff (Derry) - Posts: 210 - 14/05/2023 21:50:34    2478504

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Not a classic but tense stuff all the same ,Just to mention a couple of players, Rodgers and Glass top top players and top men no nasty stuff no diving no mouthing they just play the game the way it should be played , they would walk onto any team any time

germac (Down) - Posts: 557 - 14/05/2023 21:58:59    2478505

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "if you cant see any thing wrong with 30 players trying to play football in one third of the area of the pitch and 90 percent of passing consists of a fisted pass to a colleague beside you then you are easily entertained. There were no skills on display in Clones today just very fit players who have had their natural abilities destroyed by stats men and defensive coaching gone mad. yes it was a close match which kept the crowd interested but was some manure to watch. Unless there is a change in the rules ie each team should have to keep 4 players in their half of the field at all times and two points awarded for every score kicked outside the so called scoring zone that every team has become obsessed with trying to work the ball into the game is finished.imagine players practicing kicking long range points instead of the sideways manure they are at."
Tyrone V Monaghan was played under the same rules. There's nothing wrong with the rules. The problem is some coaches, with limited imagination, using the many stats available in 2023, to go out to not lose a game. Rather than encouraging players to be brave and look to win games. Changing the rules won't stop some coaches playing low risk football. Unfortunately sometimes those tactics can be effective to get results.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7708 - 14/05/2023 21:59:33    2478507

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Replying To Stoutlad:  "What's a Provisional final?"
Any need to be a smart ass?

farneygael (Monaghan) - Posts: 296 - 14/05/2023 22:05:42    2478508

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I honestly don't know why anyone would even watch gaelic football if they're not going to be able to get it together to enjoy a game like we witnessed today. I thought it was fantastic stuff.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 14/05/2023 22:06:03    2478509

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Dublin hand passed their way to 6 All Irelands and people said they were the best team ever, played keep , no risk ball, done all the things on show to day in Clones .

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2180 - 14/05/2023 22:16:25    2478513

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I honestly don't know why anyone would even watch gaelic football if they're not going to be able to get it together to enjoy a game like we witnessed today. I thought it was fantastic stuff."
you should watch a few underage games to remind you how football should still be played before stats men and coaches gone mad get involved much more enjoyable

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 482 - 14/05/2023 22:17:23    2478514

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Replying To Ulsterman:  "Maybe Croke Park could give every other county €16 million and we could maybe raise everything up to the standard of the Leinster Championship....oh wait."
What? You need £16m to buy a different colour set of jerseys and togs? Always with the excuses and deflecting. We're talking about the Ulster Final here where for some reason one of two teams couldn't wear their second strip. Derry GAA spend about 1m GBP per annum. I don't think money is an issue.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 14/05/2023 22:20:35    2478517

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i think the earlier Dublin teams with the two Brogans were much better to watch. After Donegals jimmy mcguiness defeat of Dublin which in hindsight would have been a one off Dublin changed from playing beautiful open skilled football to much more robotic low risk keep possesion game. It was such a pity because if they had kept playing the the same great football they would have still won the 6 in a row because of the skill set of their players.

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 482 - 14/05/2023 22:23:09    2478519

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Take the plank out of your own eye before you start criticising other provincial finals. The only people giving out about the Ulster final are Leinster people who haven't had a proper championship from the last time Louth were involved. Connacht, Munster and Ulster all different winners. I'll circle the wagons when anyone criticises Tyrone football and the same with Ulster. Everyone had their siesta today during Dublin's home win."
Say no more.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 14/05/2023 22:23:24    2478520

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Dublin hand passed their way to 6 All Irelands and people said they were the best team ever, played keep , no risk ball, done all the things on show to day in Clones ."
Bahaha. You must have missed a few semis and finals v Mayo and Kerry. Perhaps you're not old enough to remember the Dubs retiring much of Harte's panel in 2011 with 19 points from play in what was called an "irresistible display of power football". I don't ever remember their style being called "puke football". But sure look we'll leave it there.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2011/0806/283227-dublin_tyrone2/

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4734 - 14/05/2023 22:33:11    2478524

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The Tyrone and Monaghan match was very good.

Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 922 - 14/05/2023 22:53:03    2478527

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Well done to both sides for a gripping final. Tough way to lose it on pens. Can't beat the competitiveness in the Ulster championship.

fielder (Donegal) - Posts: 137 - 14/05/2023 22:58:41    2478529

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Replying To breffnibluewhite:  "i think the earlier Dublin teams with the two Brogans were much better to watch. After Donegals jimmy mcguiness defeat of Dublin which in hindsight would have been a one off Dublin changed from playing beautiful open skilled football to much more robotic low risk keep possesion game. It was such a pity because if they had kept playing the the same great football they would have still won the 6 in a row because of the skill set of their players."
Oh Jaysus, you very naive Cabhan man!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 2124 - 15/05/2023 04:42:03    2478542

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Replying To Stoutlad:  "What's a Provisional final?"
It's a provincial final misspelt.

endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2308 - 15/05/2023 06:47:08    2478543

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Dublin hand passed their way to 6 All Irelands and people said they were the best team ever, played keep , no risk ball, done all the things on show to day in Clones ."
Yes, say nothing if you can't get it right, analysis shows of the three dominant teams this century Dublin (8), Kerry (7) and Tyrone (4), Dublin kick the ball marginally more than Kerry with Tyrone using the handpass much more than the other two.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 824 - 15/05/2023 08:49:28    2478549

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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  "When Barcelona did their keep ball stuff, it was lauded as genius ...

What I can't stand is defending errors and cheap scores, big excitement for the ole ole brigade who want mistakes, adrenalin, lots of roaring and lots of scores, land all the hoof-it-up-the-pitch bores going on about "classics". I'm happy with low-scoring games and enjoy good passages of play and watching a good team working out how to break down a defence.

I've seen high scoring "thrillers" that everyone raves about, but to me they were just a mess of bad defending and cheap scores, like watching a college basketball game. Great for floating voters of course, the folks who want to be "entertained"; that's all it means to them - packaged, consumer product. You always have some half-cut yahoo roaring "let her in tae ****"; it's usually all he knows.

Since when was Gaelic football about entertainment? That's what movies are for. To me, football at county and especially at club level was about identity, and winning is all. Do not care less how the win was achieved, never have - close, one-sided, tactical, rip-roaring, makes no difference to me.

Main thing, as a neutral, it was CLOSE today. Some games are tactical, some games are shoot-outs. As a neutral, I'm happy watching either - *provided the game is competitive and that either team has a chance of winning it*.

You'll generally always get that in Ulster. And in Connacht. Munster and Leinster are very one-sided currently but who's to say it will always be that way? It's a huge over-reaction to propose scrapping the provincials just because a couple of teams are going through a purple patch. People need to take the long view on this. The GAA is supposed to be about tradition and identity. I like the provincial championships - Clones on Ulster final day is one of the most tribal places in Western Europe, and long may it continue."
Brilliant Post.
But the hoof it in brigade don't really understand modern football. They still yearn for the laced ball that weighed 4 pound and boots laced to the knees.

Derryman2 (Derry) - Posts: 12 - 15/05/2023 09:24:01    2478556

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Well done to Derry on securing back to back Ulster wins - no easy feat! I thought their tank was empty but they dug deep and took it to penalties. I thought Glass and McGuigan were magnificent when the fat was in the fire. Outstanding leadership and nerve shown.

On the game itself, it was another tactical battle like last year's final. Each to their own but I thought it was terrible spectacle for about two thirds of the game. I know it's different when your own team is involved. Last year I wouldn't have cared one bit if we had edged it. But from a neutral persepctive it's not great. The other provinces were very one-sided I know but you have to call a spade a spade. I think Armagh will regret not bringing their chaotic football to proceedings when they had the wind and man advantage in the first half of ET. But it's easy for me to say that. They haven't won Ulster in a long time so they were maybe a bit wary of going gung-ho against a Derry team who are masters of the counter-attack.

Derry will ease through their group and reach the quarters but I'm not sure if they've evolved enough to trouble the really big hitters like Galway, Kerry and Dublin. If McGuigan is shut down I don't think their other forwards contribute enough to the scoreboard.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9546 - 15/05/2023 09:41:41    2478562

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Replying To Derryman2:  "Brilliant Post.
But the hoof it in brigade don't really understand modern football. They still yearn for the laced ball that weighed 4 pound and boots laced to the knees."
Take a look at Down v Meath in 91 semi final or Derry b Down in 94. That's how football should be played. Fast and skilful not glorified soccer like we see nowadays passing it across the back 4 then back to the keeper. Even Scoccer knocked the back pass to the keeper on the head years ago.

Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 15/05/2023 09:45:20    2478565

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