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All Ireland Senior Hurling Championship 2023

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "I think they are definitely good enough, on their day they can beat anyone and one of their best forwards is yet to return.

The only question for me is if they can go back to back to back on consecutive games and physically and mentally stay the course. That will be tough for them as they are more of a hurling than a physical based team at heart. They really should have gone all out to win Munster and made a massive mistake by not being up and tuned in for the Waterford match.

Honest question in relation to the Wexford match v KK, why was the stadium not jam packed with Wexford supporters, playing the mighty KK on their own patch in one of the important matches to Wexford since they last won the All Ireland. There was always a likelihood this match was going to be epic. I think the main difference between the Leinster and Munster championships is not the quality on offer or major differences between the teams, but by the appetite to go to matches to support your team."
Not sure how the attendance wasn't over 10K. Both stands were full.
The reasons for it not being sold out are:
1. Wexford were out of the championship
2. Supporters were let down by performances against Westmeath and in general throughout the year.
3. Very small travelling KK crowd.

You got about 9K die hard Wexford fans there on the day who made it seem like an awful lot more.

LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 412 - 31/05/2023 12:43:21    2483146

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Replying To Viking66:  "Noone said you don't have a good team. I just dont think you are good enough to win the AI this year is all."
I dont think too many consider us serious contenders and with two more season ending injuries from Sunday, Tipp are down to the bare bones at this stage. Even Canuck might soon be forced to admit we have worse luck and more reasonable excuses than Waterford...

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 31/05/2023 13:26:58    2483153

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Darragh is a Limerick man, a first cousin of Ritchie English. If he had opted for Limerick he would have four All Irelands, by now and possibly five, as he just might have made the difference in '19. Damian Cahallane is there since 2013. I just feel Kingston, O'Mahoney, Dalton and Jack Cullinane are not consistent enough to be part of a winning All Ireland side. Many of the '17 Limerick u21 had won four All Irelands before they were 25 and both Kyle Hayes and Peter Casey are not even 25 yet."
I agree that those players might not be consistent enough to win an All Ireland. However with the added infusion of players from the 2020/2021 winning U20 teams as well as the current U20s, there's more than enough good players coming through to win contribute to an All Ireland winning side. The return of Robbie O Flynn [Our best forward], Mark Coleman [Our best player] and Alan Connolly next year will increase the optimism even further.

Frontier1000 (Cork) - Posts: 61 - 31/05/2023 13:29:43    2483154

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Replying To Viking66:  "I was there and did my best to encourage others to go. Sadly there are people I know who would go to Croke Park to see Wexford but haven't been to Wexford Park since Moses was a child."
Viking at least it is not since Adam was a little boy.There's hope. LOL.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3044 - 31/05/2023 13:38:52    2483156

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Replying To Canuck:  "Viking at least it is not since Adam was a little boy.There's hope. LOL."
What did you make of Calumn Lyons snapping the Tipp mans hurl in half on Sunday? Very classy.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 793 - 31/05/2023 14:08:13    2483163

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I dont think too many consider us serious contenders and with two more season ending injuries from Sunday, Tipp are down to the bare bones at this stage. Even Canuck might soon be forced to admit we have worse luck and more reasonable excuses than Waterford..."
We have had at least 18 lads who started games this year miss a minimum of 3 weeks and up to near enough 3 months with injury in a 4 month season. I think the average is 6 weeks. The only 2 starters against Kilkenny who missed no time this year due to injury were Donohue and Lawlor I think.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15731 - 31/05/2023 14:42:11    2483176

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Replying To Viking66:  "You are already there or thereabouts. You are 1 of 6 counties left from the Provincial Championships."
Not taking Offaly lightly either they have some beef with us from the minor last year!!

WildPundit (Tipperary) - Posts: 1709 - 31/05/2023 15:17:25    2483184

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Replying To countyman2022:  "What did you make of Calumn Lyons snapping the Tipp mans hurl in half on Sunday? Very classy."
He wouldnt have seen that....

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 31/05/2023 15:28:04    2483189

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Replying To WildPundit:  "Not taking Offaly lightly either they have some beef with us from the minor last year!!"
Yep they will feel they have unfinished business.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15731 - 31/05/2023 15:37:49    2483191

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Replying To LarryOBrother:  "Nobody this year convinces me they are 100% the team to beat.

Below are my perceived weakness for each team left which gives me a lingering doubt about all of them -

1. Limerick - They are struggling big time to put teams away, maybe it will come good but they haven't won any of their last 8 Championship matches by more than three points and i think at some stage the rub of the green goes against them and they fall just short.

2. Clare - Defence!! I'd be worried about their concession rate. I think its too high to sustain and win an All Ireland.

3. Tipp - I think they lack a marquee, All Ireland winning forward. In 2019 Callanan was on fire. Morris looks good but without Forde i'd be worried the attack is not strong enough.

4. Galway - Straight out hard to trust. While i think their forwards might be better this year i'd fear for McInerney at full back and i think their backs can be got at. Hard to have faith.

5. Kilkenny - Best of the rest after Limerick in my opinion they have a tail but they also have top class players that can almost win games on their own. I think they will be hard to beat. Injuries might catch them.

6. Dublin - Just not enough good hurlers. Athletic and committed but lacking the class to really breakthrough. It will be interesting to see how close they push the beaten Munster Finalists.

A good rule of thumb i've learned is that if you are not convinced on who is going to win the All Ireland just back Kilkenny and i think thats what i'll do."
Very good post and hard to argue with any of your summations. As a Limerick man our hope is thst our ceiling is higher than the rest but whether we hit it this year is yet to be seen. I think the munster final could be an interesting barometer. I feel Limerick will really look for a performance there to drive on. If Adrian Mullens injury isn't season ending id have kilkenny right there again. Without disrespecting anyone kilkenny are really only ticking over currently knowing they'll want to hit the high gears come Leinster final.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 1197 - 31/05/2023 15:39:07    2483192

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Replying To tiobraid:  "He wouldnt have seen that...."
He is very select in what he see's in fairness....

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 793 - 31/05/2023 15:47:55    2483195

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "I think they are definitely good enough, on their day they can beat anyone and one of their best forwards is yet to return.

The only question for me is if they can go back to back to back on consecutive games and physically and mentally stay the course. That will be tough for them as they are more of a hurling than a physical based team at heart. They really should have gone all out to win Munster and made a massive mistake by not being up and tuned in for the Waterford match.

Honest question in relation to the Wexford match v KK, why was the stadium not jam packed with Wexford supporters, playing the mighty KK on their own patch in one of the important matches to Wexford since they last won the All Ireland. There was always a likelihood this match was going to be epic. I think the main difference between the Leinster and Munster championships is not the quality on offer or major differences between the teams, but by the appetite to go to matches to support your team."
I think there was more than 9k there. They must not have counted kids in that.
Both stand and open side looked full from what I saw.

I wasn't there as was in Croke Park, but my wife with little interest brought my children because I knew how important that game was for Wexford hurling and all involved in it.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1340 - 31/05/2023 16:01:45    2483204

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Replying To daveboy:  "Very good post and hard to argue with any of your summations. As a Limerick man our hope is thst our ceiling is higher than the rest but whether we hit it this year is yet to be seen. I think the munster final could be an interesting barometer. I feel Limerick will really look for a performance there to drive on. If Adrian Mullens injury isn't season ending id have kilkenny right there again. Without disrespecting anyone kilkenny are really only ticking over currently knowing they'll want to hit the high gears come Leinster final."
The one thing that gives me hope from a Limerick point of view is that our form and performances are gradually trending upwards, you don't want to be at your best now as you'll never maintain it. All teams are putting their heart and souls into beating us but we can still turn in a big performance again the next week. Most other teams can't do that yet, with the possible exception of Clare. The big question is, have they more gears to move up or not as they move through the rounds and meet fresh Leinster teams.

Fitzy01 (Limerick) - Posts: 434 - 31/05/2023 21:55:25    2483270

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Replying To Fitzy01:  "The one thing that gives me hope from a Limerick point of view is that our form and performances are gradually trending upwards, you don't want to be at your best now as you'll never maintain it. All teams are putting their heart and souls into beating us but we can still turn in a big performance again the next week. Most other teams can't do that yet, with the possible exception of Clare. The big question is, have they more gears to move up or not as they move through the rounds and meet fresh Leinster teams."
Do you think this year might be different tho as they have invested so much into every game whereby other years they moved through the gears easier and were almost pulling up at the end of some games? If the Munster final is anything like the games up to now and they were to lose, it might be difficult getting up for more big games in the following few weeks.
Having said all that I dont see anyone else winning the AI but time will tell if they can find that form again - not that they are playing badly at the min or anything!

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 01/06/2023 09:49:45    2483299

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Replying To LarryOBrother:  "Nobody this year convinces me they are 100% the team to beat.

Below are my perceived weakness for each team left which gives me a lingering doubt about all of them -

1. Limerick - They are struggling big time to put teams away, maybe it will come good but they haven't won any of their last 8 Championship matches by more than three points and i think at some stage the rub of the green goes against them and they fall just short.

2. Clare - Defence!! I'd be worried about their concession rate. I think its too high to sustain and win an All Ireland.

3. Tipp - I think they lack a marquee, All Ireland winning forward. In 2019 Callanan was on fire. Morris looks good but without Forde i'd be worried the attack is not strong enough.

4. Galway - Straight out hard to trust. While i think their forwards might be better this year i'd fear for McInerney at full back and i think their backs can be got at. Hard to have faith.

5. Kilkenny - Best of the rest after Limerick in my opinion they have a tail but they also have top class players that can almost win games on their own. I think they will be hard to beat. Injuries might catch them.

6. Dublin - Just not enough good hurlers. Athletic and committed but lacking the class to really breakthrough. It will be interesting to see how close they push the beaten Munster Finalists.

A good rule of thumb i've learned is that if you are not convinced on who is going to win the All Ireland just back Kilkenny and i think thats what i'll do."
As others have said this is a great post & a good assessment of where the championship is at.

One thing I'd add about us though is how we are operating as champions. As you said the winning (and losing) margins are all small. Kilkenny went about things differently as champions - big winning margins but big losing ones too. We would obviously love to win as much as Cody's Kilkenny but I'd prefer to see us a point up or down coming into the last ten minutes of games as John Kiely's men have a habit of closing those games out to win.

slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6480 - 01/06/2023 09:52:09    2483300

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I think there was more than 9k there. They must not have counted kids in that.
Both stand and open side looked full from what I saw.

I wasn't there as was in Croke Park, but my wife with little interest brought my children because I knew how important that game was for Wexford hurling and all involved in it."
Crowds have gone down in Leinster generally. I was surprised there were not more there. Wexford Park was practically full and definitely had big crowds behind both goals when Dublin played Wexford in 2013 and there were no more than 1,000 Dubs there, if that many. And I think had much bigger crowd for the evening game earlier in the year?

Much as it galls me to say, there would not have been even 10,000 last Sunday for the hurling had it not been for the football later which did bring a bigger number of Dublin supporters onto the Hill for most of the match.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3524 - 01/06/2023 09:55:34    2483301

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I think there was more than 9k there. They must not have counted kids in that.
Both stand and open side looked full from what I saw.

I wasn't there as was in Croke Park, but my wife with little interest brought my children because I knew how important that game was for Wexford hurling and all involved in it."
Official attendance given was 9,725 and that sounds about right to me.

Main stands holds approx. 4,500 and the open side holds a shade over 4,000.

Children are counted because the official attendance is based on the number of clicks of a turnstile, and the counting mechanism doesn't differentiate between whether the person going in is 5 years old or 45 or even 95.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 01/06/2023 10:27:26    2483310

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Replying To LarryOBrother:  "Nobody this year convinces me they are 100% the team to beat.

Below are my perceived weakness for each team left which gives me a lingering doubt about all of them -

1. Limerick - They are struggling big time to put teams away, maybe it will come good but they haven't won any of their last 8 Championship matches by more than three points and i think at some stage the rub of the green goes against them and they fall just short.

2. Clare - Defence!! I'd be worried about their concession rate. I think its too high to sustain and win an All Ireland.

3. Tipp - I think they lack a marquee, All Ireland winning forward. In 2019 Callanan was on fire. Morris looks good but without Forde i'd be worried the attack is not strong enough.

4. Galway - Straight out hard to trust. While i think their forwards might be better this year i'd fear for McInerney at full back and i think their backs can be got at. Hard to have faith.

5. Kilkenny - Best of the rest after Limerick in my opinion they have a tail but they also have top class players that can almost win games on their own. I think they will be hard to beat. Injuries might catch them.

6. Dublin - Just not enough good hurlers. Athletic and committed but lacking the class to really breakthrough. It will be interesting to see how close they push the beaten Munster Finalists.

A good rule of thumb i've learned is that if you are not convinced on who is going to win the All Ireland just back Kilkenny and i think thats what i'll do."
I'd agree with this for the most part. Very surprised with the stats on Limerick over their last 8 cship games. Very interesting but its also probably fair to say in most of them we all felt they were going to win but they did get caught already this year and could very well again. One small mistake on Sunday and they could have been gone.

I'm guilty of this but I think we all are judging Kilkenny on previous years and how we know they can just get to AIs regardless of how they are going. I'm tipping them to beat Galway too but I havent been at all impressed by them in league or cship this year. I think very few of their players get anywhere near the 4 in a row team - yet they did push a great Limerick team last year. I just dont see them winning the AI but then there arent many others I see winning it either.
Galway and Clare have a chance I think but as you said you'd have to worry about their defences. Daithi Burke was in the right half forward position when Dublin had a glorious goal chance early in the game the last day. You'd never see Hannon or Conlon for that matter leaving his defence exposed like that. I still think its a bonkers decision to play him at 6 despite getting MOTM. He doesnt look anything like an intercounty centre back in my opinion. I wouldnt read anything into their first half performance on Sunday and it might end up being a huge blessing in the long run
While I dont see Tipp winning an AI, I'd expect Forde might be back soon but our options are dwindling by the week with more injuries. Reaching an AI semi would be a big success for Tipp this year.
A Clare win in Munster would really spice things up I think.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 01/06/2023 10:57:31    2483322

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Official attendance given was 9,725 and that sounds about right to me.

Main stands holds approx. 4,500 and the open side holds a shade over 4,000.

Children are counted because the official attendance is based on the number of clicks of a turnstile, and the counting mechanism doesn't differentiate between whether the person going in is 5 years old or 45 or even 95."
I didn't see anything on any turnstile ever in Wexford Park to say that there is a counting mechanism?!
I would bet its a more technological solution, given the tickets are scanned?
Paltry crowd really.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1340 - 01/06/2023 11:26:53    2483334

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I didn't see anything on any turnstile ever in Wexford Park to say that there is a counting mechanism?!
I would bet its a more technological solution, given the tickets are scanned?
Paltry crowd really."
That system has been in place there for a good few years, going back to when it was cash as the gates rather than tickets being scanned. A former county official who I used to help out sometimes on match days was first one to show it me, and that must be 10 or 12 years ago now, based on how long he's gone from that role.

Not sure where any gadget is actually placed in the turnstile booths themselves, but they're all linked up to a display in one of the offices, that shows not just total count but also a breakdown of numbers gone through the stiles for main stand, open side, and each terrace. This was particularly necessary on big 'cash at the gate' days as it gave advance warning of when the main stand (for example) was getting close to full, so that people could be directed to other parts of the ground instead.

To the best of my knowledge, it's a system that was supplied by Croke Park and that was installed at many other county grounds too, but I stand to be corrected on that.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2856 - 01/06/2023 11:48:43    2483339

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