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Replying To Temple56: "I think you have this all wrong.
Example: If Westmeath reach Lenister final the All Ireland Seeding will look something like this -
Seed1:
Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Derry
Seed2:
Westmeath, Cork, Sligo or Leitrim, Armagh
Seed3:
Roscommon, Tyrone, Monaghan, Donegal
Seed4:
Louth, Cork, Meath, Kildare
At the moment Kildare have the worst league position (outside of Westmeath and the Div 4 Connacht team that will qualify). Kildare are ranked at 14th, they will be the team with biggest danger of dropping down to the Tailteann cup but this can only happen if teams not already in Sam make a Provincial final" I do have it wrong alright. I worked it out after I posted this yesterday. Saw an article on Irish Examiner yesterday where it said this, I posted it, it smelled wrong and went back and checked. It can't happen.
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2378 - 22/03/2023 09:32:24
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Replying To CeachtPeile: "That's not correct. Two things are being confused here: the number of places (16) and the seeding. Westmeath have qualified regardless and are taking a place so there are 15 left. If they get to the Leinster final, it just changes their seeding pot but doesn't free up a new place. Once the Connacht draw was made, guaranteeing one Div 4 team a place (so 14 left), then it was impossible for the Division 3 champions (15th in ranking) to qualify via the league. If that draw had been different then it would have been possible. For future years, the only circumstance in which the 16th ranked team (Division 3 runners-up) could qualify via the league would be if the Tailteann Cup winners won Division 3. Bizzarely, this Irish Examiner article link which was meant to be bringing clarity to the situation ("Untangling the knotted weeds of Sam Maguire qualification") makes the exact same mistake regarding the Division 3 champions under the section "Can Westmeath upgrade their seeding?""
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2378 - 22/03/2023 10:23:39
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Apologies to all that pointed out I had cork in twice and forgot Galway.
Seeding will look like this imo if provincials go as planned.
As said before if a team not in the listed below reaches a provincial final the team ranked 6th in division will not be in Sam
Seed1:
Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Derry
Seed2:
Westmeath, Cork, Sligo or Leitrim, Armagh
Seed3:
Galway, Roscommon, Tyrone, Monaghan
Seed4:
Donegal, Louth, Meath, Kildare
Galway/Mayo/Roscommon side of the Connacht draw is massive as winners will get seed 1 while other will be seed 3
Temple56 (Westmeath) - Posts: 382 - 22/03/2023 11:37:55
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Replying To Temple56: "Apologies to all that pointed out I had cork in twice and forgot Galway.
Seeding will look like this imo if provincials go as planned.
As said before if a team not in the listed below reaches a provincial final the team ranked 6th in division will not be in Sam
Seed1:
Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Derry
Seed2:
Westmeath, Cork, Sligo or Leitrim, Armagh
Seed3:
Galway, Roscommon, Tyrone, Monaghan
Seed4:
Donegal, Louth, Meath, Kildare
Galway/Mayo/Roscommon side of the Connacht draw is massive as winners will get seed 1 while other will be seed 3" Go as planned, you aren't biased towards Westmeath at all?.
Won't be surprised if Tyrone, Galway win their provincial championships. Clare capable of beating Cork also.
Loser of Roscommon, Mayo will have up to 7 weeks to wait for their first group match. That shows the Connacht championship is starting too soon.
Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3336 - 22/03/2023 12:01:27
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A simple but necessary change to the All Ireland would be for League and Provincial to be played in parallel.
It'd make for more clarity going into the final league games if we knew what needed to be done to qualify for the All Ireland.
It'd also be better if there were 3 divisions and more teams had a shot at qualifying through the league.
You'd then want a straight knockout championship.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4195 - 22/03/2023 12:06:35
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Replying To Whammo86: "A simple but necessary change to the All Ireland would be for League and Provincial to be played in parallel.
It'd make for more clarity going into the final league games if we knew what needed to be done to qualify for the All Ireland.
It'd also be better if there were 3 divisions and more teams had a shot at qualifying through the league.
You'd then want a straight knockout championship." You're changing everything there with your simple change!!
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1381 - 22/03/2023 12:44:41
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Replying To Temple56: "Apologies to all that pointed out I had cork in twice and forgot Galway.
Seeding will look like this imo if provincials go as planned.
As said before if a team not in the listed below reaches a provincial final the team ranked 6th in division will not be in Sam
Seed1:
Dublin, Kerry, Mayo and Derry
Seed2:
Westmeath, Cork, Sligo or Leitrim, Armagh
Seed3:
Galway, Roscommon, Tyrone, Monaghan
Seed4:
Donegal, Louth, Meath, Kildare
Galway/Mayo/Roscommon side of the Connacht draw is massive as winners will get seed 1 while other will be seed 3" Oh can't see Westmeath get to Leinster final. At this stage my money would be on louth who seem to be improving every game. Meath ? if COR continues on his current trajectory won't beat the winners of Offaly and Longford. So hopefully cb pull him in after league and tell him to cop on
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 22/03/2023 12:55:22
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Replying To Gaa_lover: "Go as planned, you aren't biased towards Westmeath at all?.
Won't be surprised if Tyrone, Galway win their provincial championships. Clare capable of beating Cork also.
Loser of Roscommon, Mayo will have up to 7 weeks to wait for their first group match. That shows the Connacht championship is starting too soon." I don't think Westmeath will reach Leinster final. If you read the tread above you can see I was trying to explain to a poster that if Westmeath do reach a Leinster final it won't mean another div3 team gaining entry to Sam.
At this moment in time Louth look like Certs to beat both Westmeath and Meath and reach Leinster
Temple56 (Westmeath) - Posts: 382 - 22/03/2023 13:09:19
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "You're changing everything there with your simple change!!" Fair.
First part is the simple change.
2nd part would be a bigger but worthwhile change in my view.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4195 - 22/03/2023 13:10:41
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I know lads like being dramatic but where's this insistence that Clare-Cork is a 50/50 game coming from?
Clare have beaten Cork once in the last 90 years, and lost at home by 8 points to them only a few weeks ago. Cork will be warm favourites at worst.
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1642 - 22/03/2023 13:43:36
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Replying To Temple56: "I don't think Westmeath will reach Leinster final. If you read the tread above you can see I was trying to explain to a poster that if Westmeath do reach a Leinster final it won't mean another div3 team gaining entry to Sam.
At this moment in time Louth look like Certs to beat both Westmeath and Meath and reach Leinster" History is not with the Wee County when it comes to the Championship. Our last Leinster title was in 1957, only two Leinster final appearances since then: 1960 and 2010. Wee have only reached one Leinster semi-final since 1998 and that was in 2010. Louth and Westmeath matches are always close and there is never much between the two when the whistle is blowing. And if wee do overcome Westmeath and Meath over the winners of Longford and Offaly, the Wee County have not beating the Royals in the Championship since 1975.
Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 781 - 22/03/2023 18:18:31
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I do have a few big problems with the new format.
Something interesting to me would be to keep the qualifiers and use them to get 3 All Ireland championships.
So you'd have Provincials and Qualifiers in March and April.
There'd be a 5th qualifier round so that 4 Provincial champions and 2 qualifiers make the All Ireland championship League stage.
Have 6 other teams, 5 best from previous year's All Ireland plus second tier championship winners.
Provincial championship and qualifier results between teams in the same section carry forward.
Only top 2 into All Ireland final.
Second and third tier of 10 teams battling for semifinal places.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4195 - 23/03/2023 10:34:16
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One thing this thread proves is the format is anything but clear ,alot of clued in people here still not sure.
You can be sure some players even and older generation will struggle.
Can't wait until the groups are drawn, will be like champions league draw only more complex less showbiz.
There are seeds for the all Ireland championship, how are they breaking down Tailteann Cupgroups?
would hope not open draw, end up Antrim, Cavan, Down and fermanagh in a group(last year bad enough last year with geographical draw)
macca999 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 1097 - 23/03/2023 13:31:41
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Replying To macca999: "One thing this thread proves is the format is anything but clear ,alot of clued in people here still not sure.
You can be sure some players even and older generation will struggle.
Can't wait until the groups are drawn, will be like champions league draw only more complex less showbiz.
There are seeds for the all Ireland championship, how are they breaking down Tailteann Cupgroups?
would hope not open draw, end up Antrim, Cavan, Down and fermanagh in a group(last year bad enough last year with geographical draw)" I believe Tier 2/Tailteann Cup is seeded as well - based on NFL positions:
Pot 1 = Seeds 17 to 20;
Pot 2 = Seeds 21 to 24;
Pot 3 = Seeds 25 to 28; and
Pot 4 = Seeds 29 to 32.
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2569 - 23/03/2023 14:15:33
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Replying To macca999: "One thing this thread proves is the format is anything but clear ,alot of clued in people here still not sure.
You can be sure some players even and older generation will struggle.
Can't wait until the groups are drawn, will be like champions league draw only more complex less showbiz.
There are seeds for the all Ireland championship, how are they breaking down Tailteann Cupgroups?
would hope not open draw, end up Antrim, Cavan, Down and fermanagh in a group(last year bad enough last year with geographical draw)" Format very simple, could hardly be simpler in fact.
8 Provincial Finalists
Last years Tailteann winners
7 highest placed League teams at end of NFL
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1381 - 23/03/2023 15:00:03
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Format very simple, could hardly be simpler in fact.
8 Provincial Finalists
Last years Tailteann winners
7 highest placed League teams at end of NFL" Thanks omahant, hadnt seen that stated on any official gaa pages. Least based on that format only be one repeat match from national league as be 2 teams from Div 3 and 2 from Division 4
Seanfanbocht, the amount of posters and permutations if div3/4 teams reach finals or westmeath do would suggest could be bit clearer
macca999 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 1097 - 23/03/2023 15:54:12
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Replying To macca999: "Thanks omahant, hadnt seen that stated on any official gaa pages. Least based on that format only be one repeat match from national league as be 2 teams from Div 3 and 2 from Division 4
Seanfanbocht, the amount of posters and permutations if div3/4 teams reach finals or westmeath do would suggest could be bit clearer" Tier 1 could be stated as:
Westmeath, weak Conn Finalist & NFL top 14, with the weakest of the 14 (seeded 14, 13, 12 etc) replaced by any Prov Finalist not yet included - it is simple,ish ~
omahant (USA) - Posts: 2569 - 24/03/2023 13:59:46
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A hurling thread has suggested separating the provincial championships from the All-Ireland series. It is a suggestion that might be more suited to football at this time.
National League: 4 divisions of 8. Straight league. No finals. 2 up and down as always.
Provincial Championships: Knockout format. All provinces running their province as they see fit. No link to the All-Ireland.
All-Ireland: 2 or 3 tiers with group stage. Lower tier winners promoted. Higher tier relegation playoff losers relegated.
Provincial championships should stand on their own two feet. Keeping them midseason keeps them relevant and respects tradition. It offers a break from league to round robin. Apart from provincial bragging rights, going well in the provinces will provide competitive games before the All-Ireland.
This won't happen overnight. Provincial councils want to keep the All-Ireland link. It could always be trialled for 3 years.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7811 - 24/03/2023 15:47:52
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Ciaran Whelan on the latest Podcast with RTE mentioning Cavan could be extra motivated to finish top of Division 3 this weekend as Westmeath get to a Leinster Final as would mean they enter Sam Maguire.
Some here have said its not the true? Either way, again shows its not clear cut if someone like Ciaran Whelan doesn't know.
This example raises question also, if true that westmeath getting to Leinster final adds extra place to Division 3, does it go to the team that finishes top of the table or whoever wins the div 3 league final?
macca999 (Fermanagh) - Posts: 1097 - 25/03/2023 07:35:20
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Replying To macca999: "Ciaran Whelan on the latest Podcast with RTE mentioning Cavan could be extra motivated to finish top of Division 3 this weekend as Westmeath get to a Leinster Final as would mean they enter Sam Maguire.
Some here have said its not the true? Either way, again shows its not clear cut if someone like Ciaran Whelan doesn't know.
This example raises question also, if true that westmeath getting to Leinster final adds extra place to Division 3, does it go to the team that finishes top of the table or whoever wins the div 3 league final?" Yeah it's not true. It was on a newspaper article during the week, and it's wrong. Division 3 teams cannot get in on League placing this year. Only if they get to their final. Apparently word came down from Croke Park, so looks like someone in there is also confused about it.
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2378 - 25/03/2023 10:44:39
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