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Flashing---Red.

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Look at hurling you cannot touch let alone pull a faceguard on an opponent. I have heard and read in the media calls to remove rule altogether, but thats a different story. What is the issue is ref's are given yellow cards (incorrect) or doing what most refs do just blow nothing. Now "touching" a face guard is not the same as yanking a helmet off over a players head from behind. But that is what rule is designed to protect, the players necks. But in recent match I counted 4 times it happening one in front of official and nothing.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4949 - 21/02/2023 19:33:23    2459677

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Football rules discussion on Monday's Examiner podcast:

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GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7763 - 22/02/2023 11:46:18    2459743

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Replying To Canuck:  "A certain ****head poster is back. Don't engage or take part in conversation with such people. A slight on all the good Wexford guys come on and indulge meaning full debate. As well as maintaining their own well contributed thread."
Its strange how its always the Waterford lad getting reds over the last few years. Always the victims as they say.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 772 - 23/02/2023 10:37:03    2459849

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Replying To Mayonman:  "its rare enough in the gaa for an reasoned argument. whataboutery is the usual recourse. rarer still is someone to judge an incident on its merits. blinkers are usually applied depending on the colour of the jersey.

Lee Keegan throwing the GPS to put a player off - IMO unsporting behavior, yellow card. He didn't throw it at the player (if he did he has a bad aim).

CCCCCCCCCC - should only get involved after a game if an incident was dangerous or potentially dangerous. Choke holds, eye gouges, elbows, punches, melee's or brawls. again thats my opinion (i have no idea what the rules say)

On a broader note:
-The difference between a black card & yellow card is ridiculous. Surely there should only be one or the other with the same sanction. Make things a little more straight forward. No issue with the sin bin. My issue is that because the offences that merit a yellow or black are so close they should all have the same sanction. I can cynically pull you back but as long as i keep u upright it is a yellow not a black! e.g. If you clothes line a player it is a yellow. This happened at the weekend ....u haven't dragged him to the ground seemingly!

My solution - Get rid of black card and any offence that previously merited a black or a yellow is now a yellow and gets 10 mins in the bin."
Broadly agree with a lot of it, a lot of potential yellow card challenges are basically intended to take a player out of the game/play.

Would prefer to separate the more technical yellow cards - verbals and persistent fouling imo should not result in 10 minutes sin bin.

systematic (Galway) - Posts: 124 - 23/02/2023 11:17:35    2459859

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Another Waterford red card, what a shock. And yet they will still have an excuse for it im sure. Never at fault.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 772 - 11/03/2023 20:39:54    2463436

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A player does not get red carded for kicking. The treatment to Bennett was outrageous.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2945 - 11/03/2023 21:07:14    2463440

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I have constantly defended refs and regarded James Owens as one of the best. However his performance yesterday was absolutely awful. Jamie Barron got a red for retaliation in an off the ball incident and so be it. Could there be anymore of an off the ball striking than the kick given to Stephen Bennett ? It is not that Owens was not aware of it because he gave a yellow card. All you can ask for is consistency. The targeting of Bennett was off the charts and allowed. This was a planned attic. Why ? Because Bennett has been sent off before and would be again if he retaliated. On several occasions his hips were targeted. A man who has had two surgeries on one and one on the other. It looks like he is now seriously injured. Breen should be given 10 games for kicking and nice guy Cahill 6 months for the tactics. Tipp should have ended up with 12 players on the field. Later in the game Pendergast was given a head hit. Sometimes these can be subjective but this was a blatant attack after the Tipp player was beaten. James Owens review your performance yourself and do better than this.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2945 - 12/03/2023 13:26:47    2463491

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Replying To Canuck:  "I have constantly defended refs and regarded James Owens as one of the best. However his performance yesterday was absolutely awful. Jamie Barron got a red for retaliation in an off the ball incident and so be it. Could there be anymore of an off the ball striking than the kick given to Stephen Bennett ? It is not that Owens was not aware of it because he gave a yellow card. All you can ask for is consistency. The targeting of Bennett was off the charts and allowed. This was a planned attic. Why ? Because Bennett has been sent off before and would be again if he retaliated. On several occasions his hips were targeted. A man who has had two surgeries on one and one on the other. It looks like he is now seriously injured. Breen should be given 10 games for kicking and nice guy Cahill 6 months for the tactics. Tipp should have ended up with 12 players on the field. Later in the game Pendergast was given a head hit. Sometimes these can be subjective but this was a blatant attack after the Tipp player was beaten. James Owens review your performance yourself and do better than this."
Breen has history. He is the only man I ever saw yellow carded before the ball was even thrown on.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4479 - 13/03/2023 07:30:26    2463641

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Replying To midlands:  "If the linesman saw "some other stuff" going on, surely the other player should have been booked as well. I think I know the incident you are referring to. Regardless of what the linesman said, the ref should have acted on what he must have clearly seen himself. But I suspect that some referees consult their umpires and linesmen even when they know a red card offence has taken place. That way, some of the responsibility for his ultimate decision can be deflected."
It was the Oscar candidate nature of the 'victims' conduct that kept the culprit on the field. Referees do not like players taking them for fools.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4479 - 13/03/2023 07:44:10    2463644

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Taught Sean cleere was very poor in pairc ui yesterday. We had to work so hard for frees. Can anyone clarify the rule when there is a blatent goal scoring opportunity.

Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 343 - 13/03/2023 09:44:21    2463651

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Replying To Canuck:  "I have constantly defended refs and regarded James Owens as one of the best. However his performance yesterday was absolutely awful. Jamie Barron got a red for retaliation in an off the ball incident and so be it. Could there be anymore of an off the ball striking than the kick given to Stephen Bennett ? It is not that Owens was not aware of it because he gave a yellow card. All you can ask for is consistency. The targeting of Bennett was off the charts and allowed. This was a planned attic. Why ? Because Bennett has been sent off before and would be again if he retaliated. On several occasions his hips were targeted. A man who has had two surgeries on one and one on the other. It looks like he is now seriously injured. Breen should be given 10 games for kicking and nice guy Cahill 6 months for the tactics. Tipp should have ended up with 12 players on the field. Later in the game Pendergast was given a head hit. Sometimes these can be subjective but this was a blatant attack after the Tipp player was beaten. James Owens review your performance yourself and do better than this."
Agree Canuck on everything.. Owens didnt get a grip of Tipps antics - embarssing from them really. Only thing I'd question if Owens was told by linesman it was a yellow as I don't think James seen it??? The treatment of Bennet was disgrace - even when ball out of play for line ball at one stage tipp forward in hitting him another late shot.. If Kyle Hayes got banned retrospectively then so should Breen.

grassroots01 (Wexford) - Posts: 179 - 13/03/2023 10:01:03    2463655

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Replying To Wexfordgaa:  "Taught Sean cleere was very poor in pairc ui yesterday. We had to work so hard for frees. Can anyone clarify the rule when there is a blatent goal scoring opportunity."
Agreed. Wexford were unlucky with the decisions yesterday. On balance Cork got most of the marginal calls.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 969 - 13/03/2023 10:24:27    2463661

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It's a general problem, and forwards on all teams suffer. Typical scenario involves a corner back "half-fouling" a pacy forward for much of the game. Nothing serious or dirty, but enough to knock a forward off their game and try the patience of a saint - continual holding, jersey pulling, wee shoves, impeding, standing on boots, niggle niggle niggle for the best part of an hour say. A ref will usually give a free if e.g. a jersey pull is blatant, and you can see the material being tested from the far end of the pitch. But a jersey pull lasting a couple of seconds can be the difference between the forward getting the ball or not, and it's often ignored, especially if the forward is a big lad too. At some point, having failed to be protected for much of the game, the forward - admittedly stupidly - flings an arm back in frustration, and then of course the lad who's been pulling and dragging all match will go down clutching his face in a dramatic manner and then both lads get yellow, and the instigator gets up smirking. So many linesmen do so little that they could easily be replaced by shop window mannequins. I have very little sympathy for refs in this context.

The flip side of this is where a forward gets frees for very little. Scenario where forward attacking at pace, notices the slightest of contacts on his shoulder, and down he goes. I have some sympathy for refs in this context. When a player is attacking at speed, sometimes just a minimal contact can genuinely send you on your head. Other times, the player is milking it, and it's not always easy to work out which tumble is the result of a foul and which is an act.

points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 288 - 13/03/2023 10:36:40    2463663

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Replying To anotheralias:  "Agreed. Wexford were unlucky with the decisions yesterday. On balance Cork got most of the marginal calls."
Unfortunately the rules are what the referee says they are.
There is no consistency.
The Wexford and Kilkenny refs mentioned are no really up to it. Neither as good as Barry Kelly in terms of knowing the rules etc.
The Corkman in Ennis yesterday missed a blatant dig on Conor Cooney, minimum yellow.

SixtiesKid (Galway) - Posts: 337 - 13/03/2023 10:42:02    2463664

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Strange how its always the Waterford lads getting reds.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 772 - 13/03/2023 12:57:10    2463695

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Breen has history. He is the only man I ever saw yellow carded before the ball was even thrown on."
Oldtourman if Austin Gleeson did this he would be called every name under the sun, tried by the media and the talk of every comment by everyone. If a Limerick player accidentally fell over someone and clipped him with his foot he would be called the dirtiest player ever played and a tactic by Limerick to win.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2945 - 13/03/2023 13:28:26    2463711

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If ever a thread highlighted how impossible our games are to referee....

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1272 - 13/03/2023 13:32:58    2463715

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "If ever a thread highlighted how impossible our games are to referee...."
I totally agree. We have rogue players and rogue managers now who will apply any tactics to win. Players faking injuries and targeting players looking for retaliation. If Bennett had rolled around on the ground Breen would have got sent off but that is not in his d.n.a.
Obviously the officials are not able to control the game through little fault to them but some. If Owens did not see the kick but got his information for the yellow card either the linesman did not see it or he is not up on the rules of what should happen if you strike out. These lines men are refs so you would expect them to know the rules. There is no question but this is a job for two referees anymore. This in itself will take a lot of training to make work. Go to the NHL and ask them how they got it to work because it took time for them and works well now. The GAA are to blame for their rule mess and then they come up with a pet subject. Throwing the ball now, These ref are instructed what ever else blow this infringement. It should be enforced but ignore someone getting kicked ? Players are now getting blown for releasing the ball when their hands are held but the ref is too busy or focused on did he throw it. Any moving of the ball but a distinct striking action is a free. That is not close to being correct. There are several ways the ball can move without that action. Like being dropped. Don't you think the managers are instructing bottle him up so he cannot get a clean strike ?
The rules and there application are a shambles. I don't care what colour our glasses are we will be talking about this until some intelligent people do the rules and we have professional trained officials trained to officiate. That is not a slight on them as they are playing the hand given.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2945 - 13/03/2023 16:07:36    2463758

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Another Waterford red. Serious discipline issues.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 772 - 13/05/2023 18:35:11    2478103

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If this is what we want to see players red carded for the game is gone to hell in a hand basket. There were plenty of agreeous fouls that went unpunished. Like pulling a helmet off and hitting a player on the head either careless play or intent.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2945 - 13/05/2023 20:27:28    2478138

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