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Replying To midlands: "A red card offence is a sending off, regardless of whether there was provocation or any "mitigating circumstances"." It shouldnt. officials should always look for mitigation if possible KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 14/02/2023 17:36:16 2458327 Link
Replying To Royalblufill: "I've refed and done umpire at games! part of the problem is - you naturally follow the ball! You are usually only ever drawn to an incident after the first stage of it has happened! As Ref - you ask what did you see - and an umpire can then only tell you what they actually saw! TV cameras pick up things that umpires physically don't see!" Fair point. Just wondering is there something that would help with that inequity. it is too easy for a player to instigate and then roll around like he has been shot when he takes a slap for it. Waterford players may be doing the same thing. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 14/02/2023 18:12:54 2458332 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Kiely and Bennett aren't dirty players as far as I know Canuck. But some Waterford players are certainly no angels and maybe that counted against them, wrong though that is. I never saw such a bad tempered challenge game as the one between Waterford and Wexford last month. The Waterford lads seemed well up for it but some went way over the top in the physicality stakes when you consider the average age of the Wexford team, probably a mixed 2nd/3rd string, was around 21. Senior intercounty level intensity was exactly what the young lads needed to experience at this stage in their careers, to see where they had to get to in terms of S and C, and speed of hurling, both mental and physical. But getting kicked in the head so hard that your helmet was shattered while you were lying on the ground in a ruck was definitely way beyond normal good hard hurling physicality." Viking you won't find me defending that either. I can tell you though from years and years of watching Waterford the got bullied a lot more than bullying themselves. I sat in school with Kieran Ryan when he played corner back at 16. He arrived in on Monday with all his front teeth gone because a famous corner forward did not like being out played by the kid. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 14/02/2023 18:18:28 2458333 Link
A certain **head poster is back. Don't engage or take part in conversation with such people. A slight on all the good Wexford guys come on and indulge meaning full debate. As well as maintaining their own well contributed thread. Canuck (Waterford)** - Posts: 2660 - 14/02/2023 18:24:11 2458334 Link
You decent poster please let me know if I vilified any officials and I will take it down ? Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 14/02/2023 18:26:08 2458335 Link
Replying To midlands: "A red card offence is a sending off, regardless of whether there was provocation or any "mitigating circumstances"." I'd say too that the decision making process was not helped by the intervention of a certain chap on the sideline! There's always a bit of a cut to Dublin/Waterford games for some reason given they rarely meet and almost never in a match of consequence. The first was pretty cut and dried, and the second was hard to miss in fairness regardless of what had riled him. There was another lad who might have considered himself fortunate and that has left the player on the receiving end out till at least the end of the league. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2554 - 14/02/2023 18:51:27 2458339 Link
Replying To Wally: "Great Post! Lee Keegan was the master of this. Always going just far enough to get a retaliation but never getting sent off himself. Always thought it was a disgrace the way he marked (if you can call it that) some of the greats like Sean Cavanagh and Diarmuid Connolly. But he was always fawned over by the media...Ach but sure he is a great defender isn't he, he doesn't mean to do these things lol. RTE pundit and columnist now. Mayo's wee darling. I tell you, if a Dublin or Tyrone player took off their GPS and threw it at a player while they were taking a free kick we would literally never hear the end of it." A man from Tyrone picking out Lee Keegan above a few of his own county men. Lol lol. Lee Keegan was a master of the dark arts, like many more who went before him. Also never heard anyone not talk about his dark arts as well as his brilliant attacking play. You must read and hear the things you want and block out the rest. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7891 - 14/02/2023 19:04:26 2458340 Link
Replying To TheFlaker: "A man from Tyrone picking out Lee Keegan above a few of his own county men. Lol lol. Lee Keegan was a master of the dark arts, like many more who went before him. Also never heard anyone not talk about his dark arts as well as his brilliant attacking play. You must read and hear the things you want and block out the rest." The difference is that when one of my county men partake in the 'dark arts' as you call it they are lambasted across all media outlets for months, or even years on end. But when our poor Lee does it, it is brushed over as quickly as possible by RTE and anyone on here dare not mention it or someone like you jumps on to down play it. If Ryan McManimen or Philly McMahon did what Lee constantly did on the football field they would be vilified for it. But ol Lee is from Mayo and they can't buy an All Ireland so it's all acceptable. Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 15/02/2023 10:19:29 2458358 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "It shouldnt. officials should always look for mitigation if possible" By mitigation I presume you mean some form of provocation. By all means if the linesman tells the ref there was provocation then the ref should take action against the player responsible, But that doesn't exonerate the guy who retaliates, who should still get sent off if he commits a red card offence. midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 542 - 15/02/2023 14:42:22 2458413 Link
Replying To Wally: "The difference is that when one of my county men partake in the 'dark arts' as you call it they are lambasted across all media outlets for months, or even years on end. But when our poor Lee does it, it is brushed over as quickly as possible by RTE and anyone on here dare not mention it or someone like you jumps on to down play it. If Ryan McManimen or Philly McMahon did what Lee constantly did on the football field they would be vilified for it. But ol Lee is from Mayo and they can't buy an All Ireland so it's all acceptable." Did Lee ever stick his fingers into another players eyes or draw out an elbow into a players face? countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 15/02/2023 16:01:41 2458423 Link
Replying To midlands: "A red card offence is a sending off, regardless of whether there was provocation or any "mitigating circumstances"." I am/ involved in another sport where a parent "collared" a team manager over something that the manager allegedly muttered under his breath in reply to criticism of some sort the parent said to the manager. I was unfortunate or fortunate depending on your view to separate them and calm things down. A disciplinary meeting was called and the club Committee was solely focused on the actions of the parent. I was asked what I seen etc. I started from just before the incident but the committee chairman and cut accross me saying he wasn't interested in what caused it etc. etc. I explained that I had heard the manager previously muttering smart comments to parents comments which he should be above, but no the committee only wanted the head of the aggressor and rightly so, but the manager was walking a fine line upto the incident in my view... Fairplayalways (Offaly) - Posts: 1034 - 15/02/2023 22:00:09 2458454 Link
Replying To midlands: "By mitigation I presume you mean some form of provocation. By all means if the linesman tells the ref there was provocation then the ref should take action against the player responsible, But that doesn't exonerate the guy who retaliates, who should still get sent off if he commits a red card offence." Fully agree . Some people are transferring the term used regularly in rugby i.e. "mitigation", but its getting a bit lost in translation. Mitigation in rugby refers to a situation like when a neck or head high tackle may not have been deliberate or that the the tackled player slipped or ducked prior to impact that made the collision higher than was intended. An act in response to an earlier transgression is never considered as mitigation in rugby.....and should not be considered in GAA either. anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 16/02/2023 09:57:06 2458468 Link
Replying To countyman2022: "Did Lee ever stick his fingers into another players eyes or draw out an elbow into a players face?" Yeah he did elbow and punch players in his time. Are you claiming he didn't? Also can you name a time that a Tyrone player took a physical heavy object and threw it at a player on the field of play? Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 16/02/2023 10:21:21 2458470 Link
Replying To Wally: "Yeah he did elbow and punch players in his time. Are you claiming he didn't? Also can you name a time that a Tyrone player took a physical heavy object and threw it at a player on the field of play?" Can you name when or to whom he applied an elbow to off the ball please? And like the Tyrone lads, who's eyes did he stick his fingers in? Is a GPS a heavy object? Considering we run with them on us I don't think they are particularly heavy. defo shouldn't be for the big stromng Tyrone men. Can't remember him throwing one at a player either. Maybe the ball. countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 16/02/2023 12:41:17 2458504 Link
Replying To countyman2022: "Can you name when or to whom he applied an elbow to off the ball please? And like the Tyrone lads, who's eyes did he stick his fingers in? Is a GPS a heavy object? Considering we run with them on us I don't think they are particularly heavy. defo shouldn't be for the big stromng Tyrone men. Can't remember him throwing one at a player either. Maybe the ball." More typical whataboutary. Lee Keegan acts like a nasty cheat on All Ireland final day but rather than actually address this you are bringing up random incidents involving other county players. You couldn't make it up. It seems like you think what Lee did as acceptable. Sure next time Tyrone are in the All Ireland final our lads will take their boots off (they are not overly heavy) and we will start throwing them at free kick takers. Seems like that is fair enough to you. Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 16/02/2023 13:19:52 2458512 Link
Replying To anotheralias: "Fully agree . Some people are transferring the term used regularly in rugby i.e. "mitigation", but its getting a bit lost in translation. Mitigation in rugby refers to a situation like when a neck or head high tackle may not have been deliberate or that the the tackled player slipped or ducked prior to impact that made the collision higher than was intended. An act in response to an earlier transgression is never considered as mitigation in rugby.....and should not be considered in GAA either." Anotheralias the word I would use is instigator. Not always easy to discern or actually seen but on lots of occasions it is. An example a player gives an opponent a butt end or elbow after he cleared the ball and going back in to his position. Some of the officials see it but not much to it so lets it go. The receiver retaliates strong. Gets red carded as should do but on most if not all occasions I would bet the instigator of the incident get off scot free. I am not blaming the officials for not seeing every thing but if they let the first action go they are not going to do any thing about it now. I would also think the percentage of times a player strikes out without instigation is few. However it does happen. Being an official is not an easy job. Players also need to be more sportsmanship like and not be trying to get an opponent sent off. It was a tactic with Mullane spelt out in the dressing room. It is a tactic with Gleeson. Not claiming either are or were angles either. I am sure it is s tactic used on players from other counties also. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 16/02/2023 14:51:20 2458539 Link
Replying To countyman2022: "Can you name when or to whom he applied an elbow to off the ball please? And like the Tyrone lads, who's eyes did he stick his fingers in? Is a GPS a heavy object? Considering we run with them on us I don't think they are particularly heavy. defo shouldn't be for the big stromng Tyrone men. Can't remember him throwing one at a player either. Maybe the ball." Not going to say one thing or other about Keegan, who I like, but Wally is 100% correct, Had a Tyrone player thrown his GPS in such a manner you would never have heard the end of it. Brolly would probably have led a campaign to get a rule change. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2554 - 17/02/2023 09:17:41 2458607 Link
Replying To countyman2022: "Can you name when or to whom he applied an elbow to off the ball please? And like the Tyrone lads, who's eyes did he stick his fingers in? Is a GPS a heavy object? Considering we run with them on us I don't think they are particularly heavy. defo shouldn't be for the big stromng Tyrone men. Can't remember him throwing one at a player either. Maybe the ball." Not going to say one thing or other about Keegan, who I like, but Wally is 100% correct, Had a Tyrone player thrown his GPS in such a manner you would never have heard the end of it. Brolly would probably have led a campaign to get a rule change. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2554 - 17/02/2023 09:53:21 2458613 Link
Replying To Wally: "More typical whataboutary. Lee Keegan acts like a nasty cheat on All Ireland final day but rather than actually address this you are bringing up random incidents involving other county players. You couldn't make it up. It seems like you think what Lee did as acceptable. Sure next time Tyrone are in the All Ireland final our lads will take their boots off (they are not overly heavy) and we will start throwing them at free kick takers. Seems like that is fair enough to you." So you dont want to address the other matters, just the ones that suit you? I know its normal behavior up yer way, not for the rest of us down here. countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 17/02/2023 10:10:18 2458619 Link
its rare enough in the gaa for an reasoned argument. whataboutery is the usual recourse. rarer still is someone to judge an incident on its merits. blinkers are usually applied depending on the colour of the jersey. Lee Keegan throwing the GPS to put a player off - IMO unsporting behavior, yellow card. He didn't throw it at the player (if he did he has a bad aim). CCCCCCCCCC - should only get involved after a game if an incident was dangerous or potentially dangerous. Choke holds, eye gouges, elbows, punches, melee's or brawls. again thats my opinion (i have no idea what the rules say) On a broader note: -The difference between a black card & yellow card is ridiculous. Surely there should only be one or the other with the same sanction. Make things a little more straight forward. No issue with the sin bin. My issue is that because the offences that merit a yellow or black are so close they should all have the same sanction. I can cynically pull you back but as long as i keep u upright it is a yellow not a black! e.g. If you clothes line a player it is a yellow. This happened at the weekend ....u haven't dragged him to the ground seemingly! My solution - Get rid of black card and any offence that previously merited a black or a yellow is now a yellow and gets 10 mins in the bin. Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 20/02/2023 10:19:43 2459284 Link