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I try to stay out of the controversies about match officiating but two incidents recently bothered me. Stephen Bennett and Michael Kiely red carded rightly for retaliation. Neither are dirty players. However the instigators got away with zero sanctions. The ref goes to the lines man or umpire who seems to be limited in what they see. Or are they asked did something happen before it ? Or is there no interest in what happened, just the one strike out ? Not for a second trying to make a case for either player but it is time to enforce an instigator penalty with at least a yellow card. My old coach once gave me hell not for retaliating but getting sent off without the other player not coming off on a stretcher. It is sad if it comes to that. The officiating and rules need to protect all the players. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 13/02/2023 21:23:54 2458177 Link
Canuck I'm in agreement officials need to keep a close eye on what starts all these incidents..thought kiely was unlucky but Bennett was deserved,however in both cases there was a lot more going on..Galway managed it last year in Gaelic grounds when gearoid was sent off,nothing done to the player who started it..going by what weve seen in league games so far,I'm expecting a lot of reffing problems for the year..I learnt something new Saturday night,a sub can be booked if he goes onto the field before the other player comes off..well that's what James Owens did anyway..I've no problem if a foul is a foul but once all implement it.. CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 2217 - 14/02/2023 11:01:33 2458217 Link
Replying To Canuck: "I try to stay out of the controversies about match officiating but two incidents recently bothered me. Stephen Bennett and Michael Kiely red carded rightly for retaliation. Neither are dirty players. However the instigators got away with zero sanctions. The ref goes to the lines man or umpire who seems to be limited in what they see. Or are they asked did something happen before it ? Or is there no interest in what happened, just the one strike out ? Not for a second trying to make a case for either player but it is time to enforce an instigator penalty with at least a yellow card. My old coach once gave me hell not for retaliating but getting sent off without the other player not coming off on a stretcher. It is sad if it comes to that. The officiating and rules need to protect all the players." Your old coach needs to be called out. That is inciting thuggery. anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 14/02/2023 11:21:08 2458223 Link
Replying To anotheralias: "Your old coach needs to be called out. That is inciting thuggery." The Angels of Waterford :-) Could be a Netflix series..... BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2557 - 14/02/2023 11:43:57 2458234 Link
Replying To CTGAA10: "Canuck I'm in agreement officials need to keep a close eye on what starts all these incidents..thought kiely was unlucky but Bennett was deserved,however in both cases there was a lot more going on..Galway managed it last year in Gaelic grounds when gearoid was sent off,nothing done to the player who started it..going by what weve seen in league games so far,I'm expecting a lot of reffing problems for the year..I learnt something new Saturday night,a sub can be booked if he goes onto the field before the other player comes off..well that's what James Owens did anyway..I've no problem if a foul is a foul but once all implement it.." I think some refs do check with Linesman or umpires. There was a famous incident in a Munster Final a few years ago. A Limerick drew back on an opponent and it a.ppeared he would be put off. However the Ref consulted the linesman another Ref a.nd gave a yellow. Perhaps the Linesman saw some other stuff going on. Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4321 - 14/02/2023 12:24:18 2458242 Link
I try to stay out of the controversies about match officiating but two incidents recently bothered me. Stephen Bennett and Michael Kiely red carded rightly for retaliation. Neither are dirty players. However the instigators got away with zero sanctions. The ref goes to the lines man or umpire who seems to be limited in what they see. Or are they asked did something happen before it ? Or is there no interest in what happened, just the one strike out ? Not for a second trying to make a case for either player but it is time to enforce an instigator penalty with at least a yellow card. My old coach once gave me hell not for retaliating but getting sent off without the other player not coming off on a stretcher. It is sad if it comes to that. The officiating and rules need to protect all the players. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2372 - 13/02/2023 21:23:54 Do officials have a protocol for when incidents happen so if ref didnt see anything etc or if they did they lead and then ask for anything different? Saying neither player is a "dirty player" ultimately is irrelevant. This is where training comes in for officials. Refs and linesmen and umpires at higher levels(who should be current refs....) need to be meeting monthly/fortnightly through the season with a ref development officer who is employed by county board(for smaller counties they could share a ref development officer) and go through rules/game management etc KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 14/02/2023 12:28:30 2458244 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "The Angels of Waterford :-) Could be a Netflix series....." Starring Austin Gleeson Barney? Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 14/02/2023 12:32:44 2458245 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Starring Austin Gleeson Barney?" You might say that, i couldn't possibly comment .... BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2557 - 14/02/2023 13:31:47 2458254 Link
Great Post! Lee Keegan was the master of this. Always going just far enough to get a retaliation but never getting sent off himself. Always thought it was a disgrace the way he marked (if you can call it that) some of the greats like Sean Cavanagh and Diarmuid Connolly. But he was always fawned over by the media...Ach but sure he is a great defender isn't he, he doesn't mean to do these things lol. RTE pundit and columnist now. Mayo's wee darling. I tell you, if a Dublin or Tyrone player took off their GPS and threw it at a player while they were taking a free kick we would literally never hear the end of it. Wally (Tyrone) - Posts: 912 - 14/02/2023 13:55:54 2458260 Link
Replying To anotheralias: "Your old coach needs to be called out. That is inciting thuggery." Never did it or approved of it. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 14/02/2023 14:19:28 2458264 Link
Embarrassing posts today. Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1490 - 14/02/2023 14:20:06 2458265 Link
Replying To BarneyGrant: "You might say that, i couldn't possibly comment ...." Better download the series before it gets banned : D Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 14/02/2023 14:22:07 2458266 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Starring Austin Gleeson Barney?" Viking it is funny how things get twisted around. I never said that either player did not deserve to be dismissed. All I said neither have a reputation of being dirty at inter county or club level or that should have influence on these events. Neither did I say that Waterford players are angels including Austin Gleeson. In contradiction to what was said here the "stick " Bennett was taking was more egregious than Kiely. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 14/02/2023 14:31:44 2458273 Link
Replying To Canuck: "I try to stay out of the controversies about match officiating but two incidents recently bothered me. Stephen Bennett and Michael Kiely red carded rightly for retaliation. Neither are dirty players. However the instigators got away with zero sanctions. The ref goes to the lines man or umpire who seems to be limited in what they see. Or are they asked did something happen before it ? Or is there no interest in what happened, just the one strike out ? Not for a second trying to make a case for either player but it is time to enforce an instigator penalty with at least a yellow card. My old coach once gave me hell not for retaliating but getting sent off without the other player not coming off on a stretcher. It is sad if it comes to that. The officiating and rules need to protect all the players." I've refed and done umpire at games! part of the problem is - you naturally follow the ball! You are usually only ever drawn to an incident after the first stage of it has happened! As Ref - you ask what did you see - and an umpire can then only tell you what they actually saw! TV cameras pick up things that umpires physically don't see! Royalblufill (Meath) - Posts: 475 - 14/02/2023 14:35:47 2458275 Link
Replying To Royalblufill: "I've refed and done umpire at games! part of the problem is - you naturally follow the ball! You are usually only ever drawn to an incident after the first stage of it has happened! As Ref - you ask what did you see - and an umpire can then only tell you what they actually saw! TV cameras pick up things that umpires physically don't see!" well its your job to not just follow the ball. you train yourself not to just follow the ball KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 14/02/2023 14:51:43 2458281 Link
Replying To Canuck: "Viking it is funny how things get twisted around. I never said that either player did not deserve to be dismissed. All I said neither have a reputation of being dirty at inter county or club level or that should have influence on these events. Neither did I say that Waterford players are angels including Austin Gleeson. In contradiction to what was said here the "stick " Bennett was taking was more egregious than Kiely." Kiely and Bennett aren't dirty players as far as I know Canuck. But some Waterford players are certainly no angels and maybe that counted against them, wrong though that is. I never saw such a bad tempered challenge game as the one between Waterford and Wexford last month. The Waterford lads seemed well up for it but some went way over the top in the physicality stakes when you consider the average age of the Wexford team, probably a mixed 2nd/3rd string, was around 21. Senior intercounty level intensity was exactly what the young lads needed to experience at this stage in their careers, to see where they had to get to in terms of S and C, and speed of hurling, both mental and physical. But getting kicked in the head so hard that your helmet was shattered while you were lying on the ground in a ruck was definitely way beyond normal good hard hurling physicality. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 14/02/2023 15:12:32 2458286 Link
Replying To Oldtourman: "I think some refs do check with Linesman or umpires. There was a famous incident in a Munster Final a few years ago. A Limerick drew back on an opponent and it a.ppeared he would be put off. However the Ref consulted the linesman another Ref a.nd gave a yellow. Perhaps the Linesman saw some other stuff going on." If the linesman saw "some other stuff" going on, surely the other player should have been booked as well. I think I know the incident you are referring to. Regardless of what the linesman said, the ref should have acted on what he must have clearly seen himself. But I suspect that some referees consult their umpires and linesmen even when they know a red card offence has taken place. That way, some of the responsibility for his ultimate decision can be deflected. midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 543 - 14/02/2023 15:20:48 2458289 Link
Replying To midlands: "If the linesman saw "some other stuff" going on, surely the other player should have been booked as well. I think I know the incident you are referring to. Regardless of what the linesman said, the ref should have acted on what he must have clearly seen himself. But I suspect that some referees consult their umpires and linesmen even when they know a red card offence has taken place. That way, some of the responsibility for his ultimate decision can be deflected." Or they consult their umpires and linesmen even when they know a red card offence has taken place because they want to see if there is any mitigating factors or background to incident that their other officials saw that they themselves didnt see KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 14/02/2023 15:40:02 2458294 Link
Replying To Canuck: "I try to stay out of the controversies about match officiating but two incidents recently bothered me. Stephen Bennett and Michael Kiely red carded rightly for retaliation. Neither are dirty players. However the instigators got away with zero sanctions. The ref goes to the lines man or umpire who seems to be limited in what they see. Or are they asked did something happen before it ? Or is there no interest in what happened, just the one strike out ? Not for a second trying to make a case for either player but it is time to enforce an instigator penalty with at least a yellow card. My old coach once gave me hell not for retaliating but getting sent off without the other player not coming off on a stretcher. It is sad if it comes to that. The officiating and rules need to protect all the players." Well it is a very common theme over the last few years, Waterford men being sent off. I think you need to take a better look and insight into the actual team and their discipline over the last number of years instead of vilifying officials. It is nothing new. countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 642 - 14/02/2023 16:20:25 2458303 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "Or they consult their umpires and linesmen even when they know a red card offence has taken place because they want to see if there is any mitigating factors or background to incident that their other officials saw that they themselves didnt see" A red card offence is a sending off, regardless of whether there was provocation or any "mitigating circumstances". midlands (Westmeath) - Posts: 543 - 14/02/2023 17:12:59 2458318 Link