National Forum

Steps And Throwing Passes- Whatever You're Having Yourself

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Replying To ZUL10:  "The amount of throwing in hurling now is sickening. And not a single pundit is calling it out. Instead they are praising lovely one two passes that are throws."
I hate to break it to you ZUL10 but you will never hear pundits speaking ill of hurling. As far as they are concerned, see no evil hear no evil is the mantra.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 08/02/2023 10:27:28    2457189

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "Have you ever seen the handpass goal scored by Eamon Cregan in the 1980 All Ireland Final. One of the classiest ever seen in Croke Park."
Sure can't ye ban camáns altogether and just throw the ball around!

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1404 - 08/02/2023 10:31:16    2457191

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Replying To Oldtourman:  "One minute you are giving about out handpassing ruining the game and the next minute you are admitting it makes for a 'better spectacle'. You are all over the place. The only thing that was ruining hurling was that one team had huge victories for a few years, but that is phasing out now. What was so wrong with several games last year. The Munster Final and most of the games in Munster were fine games as was the Galway/Wexford, both the KK/Galway games, the WM/Wex clash and the KK/WX game was an absolute classic.
Outside of the Provincial series only the Clare/Kilkenny fell below expectations. There is nothing wrong with hurling and as everyone knows the Final would have filled Croke Park twice if the space was there."
I never said it makes for a better spectale, but some people do even when the rules are been broken

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 08/02/2023 10:32:53    2457193

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I don't see how that would work to be honest. Handpassing the ball with the other hand than the one that threw it up used to be the rule (I think but not 100%) and that led to wholesale dropping of the stick which is now a foul. Older people like myself will remember the great Tony Doran who was a master not only of the hand pass but the hand passed goal. His stick often ten feet behind him!

Besides it surely only replaces one throw for another! Or alternatively he suggested that the ball be hopped on stick first then handpassed. Sounds pretty complicated to me and both alternatives be easily smothered by opponents. Which is why the current rule is there in the first place. It's a bit like picking the ball off the ground in football. If player and ball is moving then no one really cares."
Im not talking of dropping the hurl as Doran used to do. You can play it off the hurl without catching it or switch the ball from one hand to the other as Jamie Barron did several times on Sunday and many players do. Its nice to watch, easy to ref and skillfull. Ive no doubt players could easily adapt to it with a bit of foresight.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 08/02/2023 10:38:05    2457195

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Replying To endgame:  "Last Sunday, for Meath's third goal v Cork, the Meath player took 24 steps with one hop of the ball in the middle. The steps rule needs to be enforced or reformed or abolished but the current position is laughable."
Ahh give over. Nonsense

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 08/02/2023 10:43:08    2457197

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Ahh give over. Nonsense"
Was closer to 14!

Shocs07 (Limerick) - Posts: 372 - 08/02/2023 11:31:57    2457222

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Replying To heyday:  "By far the biggest problem in Gaelic football is lack of definition of the tackle.Inter County football is becoming more of a rugby match with all the contact in tackles.It becoming un reffable at the top level.

A game of half rules."
Two 'simple' questions:

1. How do you legitimately stop a player soloing at full speed?
2. Why can't a player surrounded by 2 opponents, or even 3, not just run away between them?

I think an exploration of these issues illustrates the complete failure of referees to apply the rules. And this is before we get to the steps issue - which shows referees can't even count!

Aibrean (Kerry) - Posts: 263 - 08/02/2023 14:30:24    2457274

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Replying To Aibrean:  "Two 'simple' questions:

1. How do you legitimately stop a player soloing at full speed?
2. Why can't a player surrounded by 2 opponents, or even 3, not just run away between them?

I think an exploration of these issues illustrates the complete failure of referees to apply the rules. And this is before we get to the steps issue - which shows referees can't even count!"
This is exactly the issue with allowing steps and throws unchecked.
If a defence legitimately traps an opponent in possession its either:

Ball carrier is allowed 7 or 8 steps with ball tucked under arm to escape, inevitably followed by a free due to 'holding' by defender

Ball carrier goes to ground, lies on/over the ball and a throw up is given

A third defender joins to howls of " there's 3 of them round him ref!", queue a free for "third man tackle" which doesn't exist in the game

Ball carrier goes to ground and throws a pass out the back door, his teammate stoops to pick and a free is given when he is challenged too

If a corner back or keeper takes a high ball he just has to drop to the ground to 'win' a free.

Certain refs (one Duhallow man in particular) seem to call the game in this fashion all the time, with all benefit of doubt given to the player in possession. I don't know if its an attempt to reward attacking play but it leads to the exact opposite where defences retreat to safety in numbers because any one on one challenge is penalised.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1057 - 08/02/2023 18:18:19    2457346

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "This is exactly the issue with allowing steps and throws unchecked.
If a defence legitimately traps an opponent in possession its either:

Ball carrier is allowed 7 or 8 steps with ball tucked under arm to escape, inevitably followed by a free due to 'holding' by defender

Ball carrier goes to ground, lies on/over the ball and a throw up is given

A third defender joins to howls of " there's 3 of them round him ref!", queue a free for "third man tackle" which doesn't exist in the game

Ball carrier goes to ground and throws a pass out the back door, his teammate stoops to pick and a free is given when he is challenged too

If a corner back or keeper takes a high ball he just has to drop to the ground to 'win' a free.

Certain refs (one Duhallow man in particular) seem to call the game in this fashion all the time, with all benefit of doubt given to the player in possession. I don't know if its an attempt to reward attacking play but it leads to the exact opposite where defences retreat to safety in numbers because any one on one challenge is penalised."
Implementing the Rules in the Treoir Oifigiúl "playing rules of football" section woukd be a good place to start.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1404 - 09/02/2023 10:11:53    2457393

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Im not talking of dropping the hurl as Doran used to do. You can play it off the hurl without catching it or switch the ball from one hand to the other as Jamie Barron did several times on Sunday and many players do. Its nice to watch, easy to ref and skillfull. Ive no doubt players could easily adapt to it with a bit of foresight."
Well as regards dropping the hurley, nobody ever blows it. TJ Reid done in the build up to KKs second goal in last years AIF and nobody said a word. Back in 2005 LK and KK played in the League Final and this FOUL was committed in the build to each of KKs three goals and nobody mentioned it either.They won by five points in the end and no sports journalist (or even Connor O'Donovan, a Limerick with a serious interest in fair play), uttered one word about it. No more that the ball throwing, which has been going on with about a quarter of a century, these things only become an issue when one of the minnows seems to be benefiting from them. No wonder your County man Anthony Daly said that when Clare won the first AI they were everyone's heroes, but when they lost the run of themselves and had the cheek to win a second, every outsider wished they would '**** off back down to Doolin and their traditional music'.

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4317 - 09/02/2023 11:23:32    2457414

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For starters reduce the allowed number of steps by one, if that doesn't work reduce it again by another one.

If the hand pass or throwing of the ball is still a problem revert to the fisted pass only.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 09/02/2023 11:50:15    2457421

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Replying To Aibrean:  "Two 'simple' questions:

1. How do you legitimately stop a player soloing at full speed?
2. Why can't a player surrounded by 2 opponents, or even 3, not just run away between them?

I think an exploration of these issues illustrates the complete failure of referees to apply the rules. And this is before we get to the steps issue - which shows referees can't even count!"
Well once upon a time you made yourself wide, held out your hurl etc but now days, a player will run straight at you, grab your hurl and arm and fall over and get a free in.
Hurling referees have completely forgotten about the charging rule and think the full back line has to move out of the way to allow the charging forward through. It bugs me and every county gets away with it.
I am giving away where I used to hurl on the field by admission.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1122 - 10/02/2023 12:23:10    2457631

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Well once upon a time you made yourself wide, held out your hurl etc but now days, a player will run straight at you, grab your hurl and arm and fall over and get a free in.
Hurling referees have completely forgotten about the charging rule and think the full back line has to move out of the way to allow the charging forward through. It bugs me and every county gets away with it.
I am giving away where I used to hurl on the field by admission."
If you look at old games, pre 90s I'd say for certain, backs mostly took a step to side or back before clearing the ball. Be interesting to see exactly when coaches insisted on lads bursting out. I remember when it was introduced as a training drill. The one guaranteed to lead to lads hopping off one another in temper :-)

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2525 - 10/02/2023 14:13:13    2457667

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youtu.be/nDudBatOPvE

For anyone having difficulty understanding the alternatives to the debated throw type handpass in hurling.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 15/02/2023 16:14:11    2458425

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Replying To ZUL10:  "youtu.be/nDudBatOPvE

For anyone having difficulty understanding the alternatives to the debated throw type handpass in hurling."
He doesn't show how you are supposed to do that when you are being tackled and in his real game examples the lads could have used a stick pass instead of a handpass as most were in acres of space. Again he doesn't give any example of the alternative handpass being used when being tackled or pressured, often by more than one opponent, in his real game examples, which is the most common time a handpass is used these days. The reason for him not showing that being that likely the ball would end up on the floor and lead to yet another ruck.
If the rule on the current handpass is enforced, i.e. clear separation, what is wrong with it?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11736 - 15/02/2023 17:11:17    2458431

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Ryan O Donoghue receives the ball 30 metres from goal. One solo and one hop later the ball is in the net while he is lying in the square.
Average 2.5 metres per step, some going under pressure.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1057 - 18/02/2023 19:47:15    2458916

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Replying To Eddie the Exile:  "Ryan O Donoghue receives the ball 30 metres from goal. One solo and one hop later the ball is in the net while he is lying in the square.
Average 2.5 metres per step, some going under pressure."
And then the lad who had fouled him, in what would have led to a penalty anyway, complaining about the steps :-)

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2525 - 19/02/2023 09:41:59    2458960

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "And then the lad who had fouled him, in what would have led to a penalty anyway, complaining about the steps :-)"
But he wasn't fouled though, was he? Free out all day long.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1057 - 19/02/2023 10:55:55    2458973

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Enda Hession receives ball outside 20m line.
One hop and 23m later he's on the end line handpassing to O'Shea for the opening goal.
3m per step this week. Mayo must have the longest strides in the GAA

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1057 - 25/02/2023 19:28:45    2460134

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