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All Ireland Club Final, Kilmacud V Glen (Derry)

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Replying To bad.monkey: "Crossmaglen played with an extra man in the 2007 final against Dr Crokes from the 54th minute (McEntee got two yellow cards). Do you think they should hand back their medals now? Dr Crokes didnt object because they got beaten on the day. You win and lose on the pitch. I wont ask about 95! Im sure it would be a yes.." You're joking! Cross played for a few minutes with 15 men instead of 14 and Dr Crokes didn't appeal cos they got beaten on the day? Were they crazy?? Did McEntee have a key role in those last few minutes? If getting beaten on the day is ok for the losers when the winners have 15 men instead of 14 or 16 instead of 15 or whatever, then there's no point in even having a referee. "Sure there was a bit of a scrap in the first half and our full forward broke their full back's jaw, but fair play to him, he'd scored 2-8 by full time." Insanity. What was 95? Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1030 - 01/02/2023 20:10:03 2455874 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Referee didn't get them to put 16 men on the pitch. So how is it his fault?" Cos he didn't wait for them to get back down to 15. Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1030 - 01/02/2023 20:42:26 2455879 Link
Replying To Viking66: "Play was obviously stopped long enough for his replacement to reach the large rectangle. Plenty of time for him to be at least most of the way off. In fact he could have, and should have, left the pitch at the closest point which would have involved him only taking 3 steps. Both him and his replacement were in position to defend the 45 when it was taken. That's certainly not the referees fault." It certainly is the referee and his assistants fault…. The ref should not have allowed a substitute enter play unless he got the ok from the side line… This is yet another case of the GAA standing stoutly behind incompetent officials regardless of how they carry out their duties…. Another huge cock up by the GAA ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1927 - 01/02/2023 21:10:38 2455882 Link
Replying To Jack L: "I didn't imply that they did not hear the instruction. The 'new' player was entitled to enter the field of play when the referee indicates it is correct to do so. While the substituted player should have left the pitch immediately, common sense will tell you that he will not walk off while defending an attack. He will wait for a stoppage to come off. Once play did not stop when the match officials indicated the substitution, this is not the fault of the KC players or management. In the case of the "17th" player, he was on his way to the sideline when the 45 was taken. Again play should not have been allowed to continue while he was on the pitch. Bottom line is that a substitution results in a stoppage in play and can only take place when indicated by match officials. KC management is not to blame and the player in question is not entirely to blame as he was not given the opportunity to leave the playing arena. (Before someone jumps to conclusions with my use of "opportunity", I mean that play did not stop - Who was to blame for this?)" I was at the game as a neutral and I clearly heard the substitutions being called out, but Paul mannion had the who me look on his face a good 30 seconds after it had been announced he was coming off and did what alot of GAA players do when trying to run down the clock and proceeded to walk off the field in a slow manner. Of course the officials are also culpable but the blame is not theirs alone. The biggest culprits here are the GAA top brass who left glen to do the dirty work, rules were broken, if someone gets nailed off the ball and the officials miss it and cameras pick it up, they intervene, why not here?? totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 916 - 01/02/2023 21:15:07 2455883 Link
Replying To jimbodub: "Glen have been blessed here, absolutely blessed. No bloody doubt.. a complete get out of jail card Glen simply didn't deserve to win it on the day and now have a chance to play a game that they lost. An All Ireland final 2nd chance.. unheard of...!! Glen players know that too. Missed chances, poor finishing, poor option taking, blew a lead.. just weren't good enough in normal time at all and would have been deservedly beaten by a misfiring Crokes team that were nowhere near their best, who appeared to unbalance their side with trying to get Mannion back in there, blatantly not match sharp after a long enough injury. Listen.. we all have won games we know we should have lost, a flukey goal or dodgy call.. but I've never lost a game I knew we deserved to lose only to get a 2nd chance because of an error I'd not feel great retaking the field, we didn't deserve to win the last day, it would feel a bit cheap, but hey that's just me, especially off the back of a media circus. I'm no Crokes fan either, I'll be honest, I'm not a fan at all of theirs, but for me they deserved to win in normal time. Glen are blessed here.. let's see if they can pull off what they weren't good enough to do that last day" As Philly Mc Mahon wrote in the Independent...... If Crokes win again, Glen will head home, being the first team ever to lose an All Ireland Final twice. If they win, it will be the most tainted medal they will ever win and it will never be recognized as a legitimate All Ireland title outside of their own club. StopTheLights (Galway) - Posts: 343 - 02/02/2023 08:44:37 2455890 Link
Replying To Jack L: "I didn't imply that they did not hear the instruction. The 'new' player was entitled to enter the field of play when the referee indicates it is correct to do so. While the substituted player should have left the pitch immediately, common sense will tell you that he will not walk off while defending an attack. He will wait for a stoppage to come off. Once play did not stop when the match officials indicated the substitution, this is not the fault of the KC players or management. In the case of the "17th" player, he was on his way to the sideline when the 45 was taken. Again play should not have been allowed to continue while he was on the pitch. Bottom line is that a substitution results in a stoppage in play and can only take place when indicated by match officials. KC management is not to blame and the player in question is not entirely to blame as he was not given the opportunity to leave the playing arena. (Before someone jumps to conclusions with my use of "opportunity", I mean that play did not stop - Who was to blame for this?)" Who is to blame 1. Match Officials 2. The rules of the game 3. Kilmacud management 4. Both substituting and substituted players But DEFINITELY not Glen. If any one tries to tell me that Glen were wrong to try to take the free quickly then they know nothing about the game. A team can not be expected at every stoppage of play to be waiting on a ref approval to continue before restarting. The quick free is one of the positive elements of the game ( just as the ever increasing super slow free is one of the most negative). Quick frees are also (and correctly) used to gain advantage when a team is in a potentially advantageous position. One positive that might come out of all of this going forward is that it might limit this practice of using substitutions to lessen the opponents advantage by removing the quick free options. With team that I ever was involved in , we only made substitutions when we knew that we could get the substitution made at a time when we had the opportunity to get the players on ( and the player off!) without compromising our ability to defend the situation. Kilmacud were relying on the referee to completely slow the game down while they dallied with the replacement.... and to be honest I am glad that they are paying the price. anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 02/02/2023 09:01:33 2455892 Link
Replying To StopTheLights: "As Philly Mc Mahon wrote in the Independent...... If Crokes win again, Glen will head home, being the first team ever to lose an All Ireland Final twice. If they win, it will be the most tainted medal they will ever win and it will never be recognized as a legitimate All Ireland title outside of their own club." Your first part is 100% correct. Second part is bs. If Glen win it will be because they are good enough. I am not from Glen ( or Derry) and I would recognise it as being a legitimate All Ireland title....and so would the record books.. anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 02/02/2023 09:43:05 2455898 Link
Replying To StopTheLights: "As Philly Mc Mahon wrote in the Independent...... If Crokes win again, Glen will head home, being the first team ever to lose an All Ireland Final twice. If they win, it will be the most tainted medal they will ever win and it will never be recognized as a legitimate All Ireland title outside of their own club." Philly must still be at his wind up lark again through his media columns. How is it that if KC win the replay then they've beaten Glen twice but if Glen win the replay then it doesn't count at all? You can't have it both ways. SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2385 - 02/02/2023 10:15:27 2455912 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "It certainly is the referee and his assistants fault…. The ref should not have allowed a substitute enter play unless he got the ok from the side line… This is yet another case of the GAA standing stoutly behind incompetent officials regardless of how they carry out their duties…. Another huge cock up by the GAA" That sums the whole thing up correctly.Spot on. Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 02/02/2023 10:44:37 2455929 Link
Replying To StopTheLights: "As Philly Mc Mahon wrote in the Independent...... If Crokes win again, Glen will head home, being the first team ever to lose an All Ireland Final twice. If they win, it will be the most tainted medal they will ever win and it will never be recognized as a legitimate All Ireland title outside of their own club." The only way it would be tainted for Glen is if they win it by breaking the rules eg playing with 16 or 17 players on the field. ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 116 - 02/02/2023 11:56:09 2455972 Link
Replying To Breffni1969: "That sums the whole thing up correctly.Spot on." There is a problem in the GAA, with the introduction of subs. The onus is on the match officials to ensure the replaced player is off the field before a sub enters play. Referees are human, and can miss something. I wonder if the club final will ever be replayed?. thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1741 - 02/02/2023 12:10:27 2455982 Link
The correct decision was made so can the replay be on Paddys day like the good oule days. Ollie2 (Louth) - Posts: 784 - 02/02/2023 12:17:26 2455988 Link
Replying To Tacaí Liatroma: "Cos he didn't wait for them to get back down to 15." They made no attempt to. The guy who was subbed off never started leaving the pitch. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11849 - 02/02/2023 12:24:31 2455990 Link
Near no chance that the CCC will overturn the CCCC decision. However the DRA will be a different matter, they are not GAA, I expect they will want to talk to the match officials to ask them about their officiating. Don't think they will be impressed with no mention in the ref's report sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 678 - 02/02/2023 12:24:51 2455991 Link
Replying To Ban: "Did you actually see the incident?" I watched the game Ban. And I'll watch the replay. Hopefully Crokes will win. And hopefully with 15 men on the pitch. It has the reason I'm defending the ref here is I didn't notice myself that KC had 16 men on the pitch. And the reason this thread is annoying me is there seems to be an anti Dublin attitude out of some posters and an anti North attitude out of others. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11849 - 02/02/2023 12:28:20 2455993 Link
Replying To anotheralias: "Your first part is 100% correct. Second part is bs. If Glen win it will be because they are good enough. I am not from Glen ( or Derry) and I would recognise it as being a legitimate All Ireland title....and so would the record books.." I'd agree with yourself and your earlier post. I'd have liked to see Glen winning the first day, now i want them to win to make up for the bull..... some people are saying about them. A 3 point win would be even better. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2014 - 02/02/2023 12:37:40 2455997 Link
Replying To Saynothing: "I'd agree with yourself and your earlier post. I'd have liked to see Glen winning the first day, now i want them to win to make up for the bull..... some people are saying about them. A 3 point win would be even better." They'll be playing holograms because the Crokes won't be there. BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2557 - 02/02/2023 12:51:00 2456000 Link
Replying To StopTheLights: "As Philly Mc Mahon wrote in the Independent...... If Crokes win again, Glen will head home, being the first team ever to lose an All Ireland Final twice. If they win, it will be the most tainted medal they will ever win and it will never be recognized as a legitimate All Ireland title outside of their own club." Why not if they win it fairly? That goes for both teams. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11849 - 02/02/2023 13:10:05 2456005 Link
Replying To thelongridge: "There is a problem in the GAA, with the introduction of subs. The onus is on the match officials to ensure the replaced player is off the field before a sub enters play. Referees are human, and can miss something. I wonder if the club final will ever be replayed?." We have the 4th official in Inter County games. Is there a 4th official for National Finals? I agree the Referee can miss something. But surely the linesman if there no 4th official can deal with Sub on , player off and notify the ref? Are they all not Mic up? It's officials fault it happened and it's the Top Brass fault for dragging it out so long. If both Teams are privy to the referees report it's only natural that Glen would object and that Kilmacud would counter object. This will go down as the replay that never was played. It all just makes a mockery of the competition. Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 02/02/2023 13:25:05 2456007 Link
Replying To Saynothing: "I'd agree with yourself and your earlier post. I'd have liked to see Glen winning the first day, now i want them to win to make up for the bull..... some people are saying about them. A 3 point win would be even better." Maybe a lot of posters not so much care whether Glen win or lose but they'd absolutely love to see KC losing. sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 678 - 02/02/2023 13:30:12 2456008 Link