National Forum

Is There Still A Walsh Shield And A Kehoe Shield In Leinster Hurling

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I was looking at fixtures for the walsh cup and was looking for fixtures for the walsh shield but there does not seem to be any, has the competition finished.

Goodstrike (Dublin) - Posts: 5 - 04/01/2023 20:08:19    2451171

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Walsh Shield was discontinued somewhere around seven or eight years ago. It used to be a sort of "back door" competition for teams beaten in the first round of the Walsh Cup, when it was still a knock-out competition. But Walsh Cup was changed then to include round-robin groups where everybody got two or three games anyway, and so the Shield was discontinued.

The Kehoe Shield is sometimes run as a separate third tier competition (think Christy Ring level in the Liam McCarty - Joe McDonagh - Christy Ring structure). Think it was Louth, Longford and Wicklow who took part last year. I don't see any fixtures involving Louth or Longford this year, and Wicklow are in the Kehoe Cup itself, so presume there's no Shield competition this year.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2222 - 05/01/2023 10:24:55    2451195

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Walsh Shield was discontinued somewhere around seven or eight years ago. It used to be a sort of "back door" competition for teams beaten in the first round of the Walsh Cup, when it was still a knock-out competition. But Walsh Cup was changed then to include round-robin groups where everybody got two or three games anyway, and so the Shield was discontinued.

The Kehoe Shield is sometimes run as a separate third tier competition (think Christy Ring level in the Liam McCarty - Joe McDonagh - Christy Ring structure). Think it was Louth, Longford and Wicklow who took part last year. I don't see any fixtures involving Louth or Longford this year, and Wicklow are in the Kehoe Cup itself, so presume there's no Shield competition this year."
Longford are playing in Connacht. They were beaten by New York a few days ago.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 05/01/2023 10:49:17    2451202

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Walsh Shield was discontinued somewhere around seven or eight years ago. It used to be a sort of "back door" competition for teams beaten in the first round of the Walsh Cup, when it was still a knock-out competition. But Walsh Cup was changed then to include round-robin groups where everybody got two or three games anyway, and so the Shield was discontinued.

The Kehoe Shield is sometimes run as a separate third tier competition (think Christy Ring level in the Liam McCarty - Joe McDonagh - Christy Ring structure). Think it was Louth, Longford and Wicklow who took part last year. I don't see any fixtures involving Louth or Longford this year, and Wicklow are in the Kehoe Cup itself, so presume there's no Shield competition this year."
Longford are in Connacht Hurling League this year for the first time, as are New York. It includes Sligo, Roscommon, Mayo, Leitrim, Galway Development, New York and Longford. Contrary to its name, it is a knockout competition played over 6 days, with Shield (Leitrim v NY) and Cup (Roscommon v Galway Dev) finals on Saturday. For New York it is a pathway to getting entry into Lory Meagher.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 466 - 05/01/2023 11:17:47    2451208

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Replying To oneoff:  "Longford are playing in Connacht. They were beaten by New York a few days ago."
And Louth are in the McGurk Cup in Ulster (QUB).

keeper7 (Longford) - Posts: 4088 - 05/01/2023 11:28:07    2451211

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Thanks lads. Didn't realise Longford and Louth are in competitions in other provinces. Good to see them taking part.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2222 - 05/01/2023 12:14:46    2451227

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Replying To keeper7:  "And Louth are in the McGurk Cup in Ulster (QUB)."
Louth played Queens University in the McGutk cup last night.

QUB 5-24 Louth 2-9

With only 3 hurling clubs now in Louth, the future looks very bleak for them.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 709 - 05/01/2023 19:02:21    2451290

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Louth played Queens University in the McGutk cup last night.

QUB 5-24 Louth 2-9

With only 3 hurling clubs now in Louth, the future looks very bleak for them."
Only 3 hurling clubs in Longford too. It's a lonely furrow...!
I wonder what the club count is for the 5 smallest hurling counties?

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 466 - 06/01/2023 11:44:15    2451322

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Only 3 hurling clubs in Longford too. It's a lonely furrow...!
I wonder what the club count is for the 5 smallest hurling counties?"
7 in Roscommon
2? in Leitrim.
Would Fermanagh Cavan and Monaghan have 10 between them?
Is it time to ditch the County model at that level?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1381 - 06/01/2023 12:32:14    2451327

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Only 3 hurling clubs in Longford too. It's a lonely furrow...!
I wonder what the club count is for the 5 smallest hurling counties?"
The annual reports at Congress have tables of how many teams were entered at each grade in each county during the previous year. Note that this is not the same as the number of clubs, as many clubs around the country would have two, three, four or (in the case of Dublin "superclubs") maybe even more adult football and/or hurling teams. Still, at the end of the scale we're talking about, probably unlikely that a hurling club in Longford or similar county would have two adult hurling teams?

Anyway, figures for 2021 (most recent ones available) show the following number of adult hurling teams in these counties:
3 - Fermanagh
5 - Cavan, Longford, Louth
6 - Leitrim
7 - Sligo
8 - Tyrone
9 - Armagh, Mayo, Monaghan

At the other end of the scale, Cork had by far the most (210), followed by Tipp and Dublin (127 each), Galway (113), Kilkenny (101), and ourselves here in Wexford (99).

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2222 - 06/01/2023 12:44:24    2451328

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "7 in Roscommon
2? in Leitrim.
Would Fermanagh Cavan and Monaghan have 10 between them?
Is it time to ditch the County model at that level?"
I would be in favour of entering an Ulster (minus Antrim, plus Louth) and a Connaught (minus Galway, plus Longford) team in the Mccarthy cup. Every young lad should have a chance to play at the top table.

liam500 (Wicklow) - Posts: 175 - 06/01/2023 14:09:52    2451347

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Replying To liam500:  "I would be in favour of entering an Ulster (minus Antrim, plus Louth) and a Connaught (minus Galway, plus Longford) team in the Mccarthy cup. Every young lad should have a chance to play at the top table."
Might be some merit in the suggestion, but think that going straight to the McCarthy Cup might be reaching too far. Particularly when you consider that if these lads are also continuing to play for their own counties in the lower tier competitions, then they'd probably have no more than a couple of weeks training together before taking on a top tier county whose squad has been together since December.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2222 - 06/01/2023 14:24:27    2451354

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "The annual reports at Congress have tables of how many teams were entered at each grade in each county during the previous year. Note that this is not the same as the number of clubs, as many clubs around the country would have two, three, four or (in the case of Dublin "superclubs") maybe even more adult football and/or hurling teams. Still, at the end of the scale we're talking about, probably unlikely that a hurling club in Longford or similar county would have two adult hurling teams?

Anyway, figures for 2021 (most recent ones available) show the following number of adult hurling teams in these counties:
3 - Fermanagh
5 - Cavan, Longford, Louth
6 - Leitrim
7 - Sligo
8 - Tyrone
9 - Armagh, Mayo, Monaghan

At the other end of the scale, Cork had by far the most (210), followed by Tipp and Dublin (127 each), Galway (113), Kilkenny (101), and ourselves here in Wexford (99)."
I'm pretty sure there's only one club in Fermanagh. Until recently it was the case and evern before that there was only two.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 06/01/2023 15:07:21    2451362

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "The annual reports at Congress have tables of how many teams were entered at each grade in each county during the previous year. Note that this is not the same as the number of clubs, as many clubs around the country would have two, three, four or (in the case of Dublin "superclubs") maybe even more adult football and/or hurling teams. Still, at the end of the scale we're talking about, probably unlikely that a hurling club in Longford or similar county would have two adult hurling teams?

Anyway, figures for 2021 (most recent ones available) show the following number of adult hurling teams in these counties:
3 - Fermanagh
5 - Cavan, Longford, Louth
6 - Leitrim
7 - Sligo
8 - Tyrone
9 - Armagh, Mayo, Monaghan

At the other end of the scale, Cork had by far the most (210), followed by Tipp and Dublin (127 each), Galway (113), Kilkenny (101), and ourselves here in Wexford (99)."
For Longford those 5 adult hurling teams in that report are from three clubs... 1) Longford Slashers, 2) Clonguish Gaels and 3) Wolfe Tones (Mostrim). I'm not sure how they got 5 teams out of 3 clubs, because none of those three clubs have second teams in any adult hurling competition, but there we are!

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 466 - 06/01/2023 15:15:24    2451365

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Replying To liam500:  "I would be in favour of entering an Ulster (minus Antrim, plus Louth) and a Connaught (minus Galway, plus Longford) team in the Mccarthy cup. Every young lad should have a chance to play at the top table."
Would never work, lads just throw out these suggestions without really knowing how it could be achieved.

First of all no Louth hurler would be good enough to make an Ulster team, ahead of a Derry or Down county hurler? Never going to happen.

Second of all the Ulster team without the Antrim hurlers would be slaughtered in the Liam McCarthy.

They wouldn't ever beat Kerry or Laois.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 709 - 06/01/2023 18:08:36    2451385

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Would never work, lads just throw out these suggestions without really knowing how it could be achieved.

First of all no Louth hurler would be good enough to make an Ulster team, ahead of a Derry or Down county hurler? Never going to happen.

Second of all the Ulster team without the Antrim hurlers would be slaughtered in the Liam McCarthy.

They wouldn't ever beat Kerry or Laois."
In fairness thats nonsense. Down beat Kerry by themselves, away in Tralee too, in last year's Championship. The Joe Mac Cup.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11698 - 07/01/2023 10:48:34    2451402

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Would never work, lads just throw out these suggestions without really knowing how it could be achieved.

First of all no Louth hurler would be good enough to make an Ulster team, ahead of a Derry or Down county hurler? Never going to happen.

Second of all the Ulster team without the Antrim hurlers would be slaughtered in the Liam McCarthy.

They wouldn't ever beat Kerry or Laois."
They beat them in div2a last year as well and finished top of the div2a group. That game was in Ballycran.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11698 - 07/01/2023 10:52:04    2451403

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Would never work, lads just throw out these suggestions without really knowing how it could be achieved.

First of all no Louth hurler would be good enough to make an Ulster team, ahead of a Derry or Down county hurler? Never going to happen.

Second of all the Ulster team without the Antrim hurlers would be slaughtered in the Liam McCarthy.

They wouldn't ever beat Kerry or Laois."
It's something that's never made sense. Donal Og was the one who was always pushing it because, more than likely, he thought he'd get the job if it ever actually happened.

For Ulster counties in particular getting the Ulster championship up and running again would be a good step. I always felt the likes of Derry, Down etc should have played in the All-Ireland intermediate championship.

I remember a good few years ago now therr was a thing on the league highlights show about Ulster hurling and had the number of clubs in each. Would be interesting to compare with now.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 07/01/2023 13:55:44    2451428

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Replying To oneoff:  "It's something that's never made sense. Donal Og was the one who was always pushing it because, more than likely, he thought he'd get the job if it ever actually happened.

For Ulster counties in particular getting the Ulster championship up and running again would be a good step. I always felt the likes of Derry, Down etc should have played in the All-Ireland intermediate championship.

I remember a good few years ago now therr was a thing on the league highlights show about Ulster hurling and had the number of clubs in each. Would be interesting to compare with now."
Derry have 4 senior hurling clubs. Down 5, and Antrim 8. Not sure about the other counties. And not sure how many Intermediate and Junior clubs there are in Down and Antrim. Think there are 4 in Derry.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11698 - 07/01/2023 15:46:07    2451439

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Replying To Viking66:  "Derry have 4 senior hurling clubs. Down 5, and Antrim 8. Not sure about the other counties. And not sure how many Intermediate and Junior clubs there are in Down and Antrim. Think there are 4 in Derry."
Friday what I recall it was actually Monaghan who had the most clubs. But I think it was senior only.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 08/01/2023 10:46:13    2451496

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