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Replying To alwaysasub: "See both Leinster gaa and the Gardi are investigating. Be interesting to see what comes out of it." There will nothing come out of it, because it was only all a bit of handbags. In fact, I often saw more pushing and shoving come from last Mass in Meelin.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4318 - 13/11/2022 19:01:10
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "The big problem is still, non playing people getting involved.
2 Oulart subs were sent off. But if they smash the Barrog star player, that is a well use red card.
Is it at a point that wire fences are needed around all our grounds again? Are GAA supporters animals who need to be caged in like soccer fans in the 80's?
As I say, in my playing days I was not a shrinking violet and did things I regretted and still do. But I NEVER got involved in any incident as a supporter/sub/selector. Players can puck the head off each other for all I care but I take great umbrage to subs or managers or supporters hitting players.
The Gardai and Leinster Council are wasting their time unless there are some real sanctions available.
Clubs need to be fined and need to be brave enough to get rid of the type of supporter who gets involved in these brawls. I can't see clubs being brave enough to do it." I said this elsewhere. The only way to solve this is hitting both CBs and clubs in their pocket.
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 13/11/2022 20:23:55
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Replying To beano: "All joking aside, it simply has to happen.
Most other club champions with designs beyond their county are only starting to peak now, our lads have effectively being in pasture since August with the small matter of a football campaign to get through.
Tough defeat for Ferns. Had they taken that goal chance in the last ten minutes, I fancy they would have got over the line. Thought it was strange taking off Jonny Dwyer (unless he was injured) as he was working like a divil and had scored three points from play (most of any of the Ferns forwards). Ironically, Ferns won a sideline cut a couple of moments after he had been substituted that could have been scoreable. Eoin Murphy was immense at centre-back, showed real leadership, and Ian Byrne really stood up down the home straight when it mattered. But you couldn't fault their application whatsoever, they were hampered by the current timings of the championships (the format itself is excellent). Marty Kavanagh is as good a dead-ball specialist as anyone of greater renown in the country." Beano, St Mullins should have been more severely hampered, given the timing of the Carlow championship.
Yellaman (Wexford) - Posts: 106 - 13/11/2022 20:42:30
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Apologies, they have reported it now, It may serve to save Barróg and Oulart from a pile on if the likes of Duffy decide to arrange a "random" caller tomorrow, They can always ask why no one is proposing throwing the FAI out of the Aviva or taking the cup from whoever won it! This stuff happens every year by the way, and at every match between the two main Dublin firms.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2553 - 13/11/2022 20:44:05
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Was at the Ferns match today, thought they played well for the most part, just ran into a very good team in St Mullins who had home advantage (Still don't get how a Wexford club has only been at homes in 9 out of the last 27 home-and-away Senior Club Hurling matches but that's a different debate for a different day).
Ferns won two 50/50 matches against the Rapps and the Martins and eventually you can't keep on winning every 50/50 match you play, it'd be like betting on tails to come up every time a fair coin is flipped. Eoin Murphy really put his hand up to say that he could be a starter for Wexford next year in the half-back line.
One reason why Wexford clubs traditionally struggle in the Leinster Championship is a lack of physicality; I wouldn't say Ferns lacked physicality as such but they did lack out-and-out ball winners in the half-forward line. St Mullins really got the better of Ferns in terms of winning primary possession and in a game of such fine margins, that was probably the difference in the end. To be fair to Ferns, this is a Wexford-wide problem and it's not something that would really be exposed in Wexford either. When you consider that Carlow clubs have played in the Kilkenny leagues in the recent past, their clubs should in theory be much better equipped to win primary possession in the half-forward line.
Not that it matters from a Ferns/Wexford perspective but I think St Mullins v Kilmacud Crokes will be 50/50. St Mullins are a good side and would go deep in Wexford although I will add this: For as good as their wins over Cuala, Rathdowney-Errill, and Ferns have been, all came in Dr Cullen Park and the winning margins were 1 point, 1 point, and 2 points. Sooner or later, as Ferns found out today, you start losing these 50/50 games.
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 239 - 13/11/2022 21:01:54
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Was at the Ferns game today, Ferns will have many regrets about this game. The missed chances and the silly frees they gave away especially with St Mullins struggling to score from anywhere other than Marty Kavanagh frees. Ferns performed well, St Mullins are a very good side and have a well seasoned team who have some big wins in Leinster under their belt. Ferns will look back on this as a missed opportunity especially as they're not a young team by any stretch and took them a long time to make the breakthrough. That being said any time you win your first county title is a great year and I'm sure they're pleased with their year overall and no disgrace in going out to a fine St Mullins team even if the game was their to be won.
Oularts result was poor against essentially the Dublin Junior A champions (third tier winners, Senior 3, and next year the Dublin Senior 2 winners go into intermediate leinster and Senior 3 goes into junior leinster ) I don't know if they were looking too far ahead or maybe they just aren't good enough. I don't think theyre out of the woods as per staying up senior in the medium or short term either, I remember a similar thing happening Buffers Alley 15 or so years ago when they went down and came up straight away but were back down intermediate pretty soon after and have remained since.
Well done to Horeswood and the Oulart camogie team on their fine wins over the weekend too.
Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 258 - 13/11/2022 21:10:47
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Replying To Oldtourman: "There will nothing come out of it, because it was only all a bit of handbags. In fact, I often saw more pushing and shoving come from last Mass in Meelin." I don't think this episode will drop off the radar. It made the main news, the Leinster Council will have to consider the referee's report, and act on it. It is not good enough to compare it to a post Mass rush, in bygone days.
thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1741 - 13/11/2022 21:14:02
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "Yes. It is not a place I liked visiting although worst experience was not playing, it was with an underage team i was involved in running.
I do think that sanctions ought to be against individuals rather than the club as a whole, on both sides, Players on the field had nothing to do with what happened as far as I can see, or from what I've heard but anyone identified as part of the actual fighting should face some sort of sanction.
There's no excuse for any spectator belting someone." 'Players on the field had nothing to do with what happened as fa'r as I can see, or from what I've heard'
Maybe you need your eyesight and hearing checked?
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Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2459 - 13/11/2022 21:28:37
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I think Ferns would have won had the game been played on quick, dry ground. St Mullins aren't mullockers but they probably had more size and ball-winning ability to them than Ferns so playing the long game (Especially against a sweeper) was always going to work against Ferns. Very hard to play a short-passing game in Winter, the conditions just aren't conducive to doing so.
Ferns will probably rue not being able to get after the St Mullins full-back line. Inside the first five minutes, it seemed like they had struck gold as the St Mullins full-back line looked to be ridiculously slow. I was shocked looking at the corner-back St Mullins had on Diarmuid Doyle; the pace disparity between them was almost comical. For as good a team as St Mullins are, it's hard to imagine a player like him starting for a Wexford club who would see themselves as county title contenders. St Mullins also only brought on two subs (One of which was in injury time) so putting 2 and 2 together, they probably have very little in the way of depth.
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 239 - 14/11/2022 09:15:00
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Replying To Yellaman: "Beano, St Mullins should have been more severely hampered, given the timing of the Carlow championship." The key difference though is while both Ferns and St.Mullins had a five-game group stage, the structure of Carlow's championship meant that they went straight into a semi-final (only 6 senior teams in total). They could even afford to lose their last two group games as qualification was already assured. Ferns didn't have such a luxury.
I don't know whether Carlow's games were week on week, but playing a game less to win a championship is less taxing in any man's book. You have to remember too that Wexford's first two rounds were played Tues-Sun, while Ferns also played their QF on a bank holiday Monday and turned around to their semi on a Saturday I think. Then went straight into football (albeit with one hurling session a week).
Not using it as an excuse, but its no coincidence that our senior champions have fallen at the first hurdle two years in a row now in the same time-frame that our hurling championship has been played off first. The standard can't have fallen off that dramatically so quickly, so it has to be a structural issue.
Anyway, best of luck to St.Mullins' in the semi. They have the talent to make a Leinster final, so I hope they deck out Croker.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1417 - 14/11/2022 10:00:05
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "The big problem is still, non playing people getting involved.
2 Oulart subs were sent off. But if they smash the Barrog star player, that is a well use red card.
Is it at a point that wire fences are needed around all our grounds again? Are GAA supporters animals who need to be caged in like soccer fans in the 80's?
As I say, in my playing days I was not a shrinking violet and did things I regretted and still do. But I NEVER got involved in any incident as a supporter/sub/selector. Players can puck the head off each other for all I care but I take great umbrage to subs or managers or supporters hitting players.
The Gardai and Leinster Council are wasting their time unless there are some real sanctions available.
Clubs need to be fined and need to be brave enough to get rid of the type of supporter who gets involved in these brawls. I can't see clubs being brave enough to do it." Am not making excuses, because like everybody else I strongly condemn the scenes from the stand in Parnell Park, but I'm not sure what clubs could actually do as regards getting rid of this type of supporter?
Okay, if they're actually members of the club, you could suspend or expel them, tell them they're not welcome in your ground or at any other club activity, and even tell them you'd prefer that they didn't go to your matches any more. But how does a club actually prevent them from buying a ticket and going to a match as a member of the public, in the same way as anybody else is able to do?
You'd be getting into the realm of everybody having to produce some sort of membership or identity card at the turnstiles, and even Maggie Thatcher couldn't force a system like that through during the darkest days of English soccer hooliganism of the 1980s.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2243 - 14/11/2022 10:11:46
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Was in Carlow myself yesterday and have to agree that Ferns simply must have huge regrets. They were second fiddle for much of the game, particularly in terms of primary possession, but still came with a bit of momentum at the right time to give themselves a chance of stealing it or at least forcing extra time.
That missed goal chance near the end was crucial, and while I don't want to be hard on Ian Byrne, can't help wondering if the outcome would have been different if it had fallen instead to somebody like Diarmuid Doyle or Bitsy O'Connor (who was out injured, but otherwise would have been expected to be on for the closing stages).
I know that St. Mullins were even longer than Ferns without championship action, and so it was much the same for both sides yesterday, but I still have to wonder too if the result yesterday will see more support emerge for going to alternate blocks in the hurling/football championships here, instead of sticking with hurling first. Playing practice matches over the past four/five/six weeks would all have been well and good, but still, those practice matches wouldn't have had the same intensity as a county quarter-final, semi-final and final during the same time. That bit of extra "edge" you'd have got from championship matches might have made a difference yesterday, particularly against a team that wouldn't have been playing intense championship matches themselves.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2243 - 14/11/2022 10:22:57
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Replying To thelongridge: "I don't think this episode will drop off the radar. It made the main news, the Leinster Council will have to consider the referee's report, and act on it. It is not good enough to compare it to a post Mass rush, in bygone days." Look, you have badly focused camera work, taken from behind the backs of the culprits, which probably makes it almost impossible to positively identify the participants in this scuffle or do any of them seem to be even wearing their own club colours. Players do not seem to be seriously involved apart from minor pushing and shoving, so how can the Referees Report be in any way conclusive in this situation. I cannot see that himself or his fellow officials succeeded in getting the names of the main offenders in this incident. There may be minor fines given out, but overall this a non story.
Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4318 - 14/11/2022 10:27:30
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I was only able to listen to the odd update on Sunday Sport yesterday, while Ferns can have regrets I don't think they can have any excuses.
They had 2+ months to get ready for the game, I don't buy the "it'd be better if the county final was a week ago" lark.
If the county final had been a week or two ago, Ferns would hardly be done celebrating it and I would bet money they would have performed abjectly.
Which brings me on to my next point, do Wexford teams ever take Leinster seriously? To me, it has always seemed that a week on the sauce after winning a county final meant more than the unique opportunity of representing Wexford in the Leinster championship. I am not a killjoy and get that teams want to celebrate and all but I can't help notice the indifference that teams treat these competitions with. Its like once they won Wexford that is all that mattered?
As I have said before also, the style of hurling in Wexford is great for summer hurling but will win nothing in the winter. All the short passing, man on the shoulder is grand but in winter you have to win your individual battle, let the ball do the work and forget about sweepers, etc at this time of year.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1128 - 14/11/2022 11:25:17
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Am not making excuses, because like everybody else I strongly condemn the scenes from the stand in Parnell Park, but I'm not sure what clubs could actually do as regards getting rid of this type of supporter?
Okay, if they're actually members of the club, you could suspend or expel them, tell them they're not welcome in your ground or at any other club activity, and even tell them you'd prefer that they didn't go to your matches any more. But how does a club actually prevent them from buying a ticket and going to a match as a member of the public, in the same way as anybody else is able to do?
You'd be getting into the realm of everybody having to produce some sort of membership or identity card at the turnstiles, and even Maggie Thatcher couldn't force a system like that through during the darkest days of English soccer hooliganism of the 1980s." If the club banned them as a member, they wouldnt bother going to matches any more. The woman swinging the hurley into the heads of people in front needs a life ban from GAA at a minimum.
bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4624 - 14/11/2022 11:46:05
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Am not making excuses, because like everybody else I strongly condemn the scenes from the stand in Parnell Park, but I'm not sure what clubs could actually do as regards getting rid of this type of supporter?
Okay, if they're actually members of the club, you could suspend or expel them, tell them they're not welcome in your ground or at any other club activity, and even tell them you'd prefer that they didn't go to your matches any more. But how does a club actually prevent them from buying a ticket and going to a match as a member of the public, in the same way as anybody else is able to do?
You'd be getting into the realm of everybody having to produce some sort of membership or identity card at the turnstiles, and even Maggie Thatcher couldn't force a system like that through during the darkest days of English soccer hooliganism of the 1980s." Clubs have to take responsibility for their supporters member or not. Not just in GAA but in all games.
Shamrock Rovers fans fired a flare at opposition supporters and they made the same argument as above. They got away with it too which was wrong.
Harsh as it is clubs must be punished. Then supporters might start thinking before they act because their own team will suffer.
There is an element in society at the moment that thinks it's ok to abuse people just because they hold different opinions. All you need to do is look on this or any other message board. A small number of ****bags caused trouble before the fai cup final also.
Clubs need to weed these people out, stop circling the wagons and appealing everything
It sickened me to see some of the reaction to the scenes in Parnell Park. Describing it as a rare occurrence .....sorry but it is not that rare. Or other supporters having a dig at soccer ........ most of our kids play all sports. It is the same parents dropping off at all training sessions. We need to stopping accepting that it is ok to abuse people.
We as club members need to suspend our own, tell them that they are not welcome if they behave like that.
Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 14/11/2022 11:52:15
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Was in Carlow myself yesterday and have to agree that Ferns simply must have huge regrets. They were second fiddle for much of the game, particularly in terms of primary possession, but still came with a bit of momentum at the right time to give themselves a chance of stealing it or at least forcing extra time.
That missed goal chance near the end was crucial, and while I don't want to be hard on Ian Byrne, can't help wondering if the outcome would have been different if it had fallen instead to somebody like Diarmuid Doyle or Bitsy O'Connor (who was out injured, but otherwise would have been expected to be on for the closing stages).
I know that St. Mullins were even longer than Ferns without championship action, and so it was much the same for both sides yesterday, but I still have to wonder too if the result yesterday will see more support emerge for going to alternate blocks in the hurling/football championships here, instead of sticking with hurling first. Playing practice matches over the past four/five/six weeks would all have been well and good, but still, those practice matches wouldn't have had the same intensity as a county quarter-final, semi-final and final during the same time. That bit of extra "edge" you'd have got from championship matches might have made a difference yesterday, particularly against a team that wouldn't have been playing intense championship matches themselves." The twelve team format is ideal, but as I said earlier, the timings are making it tough on teams. Heck, not even having a weeks rest between the end of the football and start of Leinster there was a farce too (although I think no Leinster game should start until first weekend of November to give counties more wiggle-room).
Like a separate note, this under-19 football championship being played at this time of year is silly too. Few walk-overs each weekend, Fethard in premier but rightly focusing on their Leinster campaign, so making a mockery of their group. Lads twiddling their thumbs during the summer doing nothing. Both the under-19 championships should have been played in conjuction on an alternate basis during the summer, would only need 10 weeks or so (so what if it spilled into the start of adult championships- the under-19 hurling was played bang in the middle of that anyway).
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1417 - 14/11/2022 11:59:47
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Replying To Oldtourman: "Look, you have badly focused camera work, taken from behind the backs of the culprits, which probably makes it almost impossible to positively identify the participants in this scuffle or do any of them seem to be even wearing their own club colours. Players do not seem to be seriously involved apart from minor pushing and shoving, so how can the Referees Report be in any way conclusive in this situation. I cannot see that himself or his fellow officials succeeded in getting the names of the main offenders in this incident. There may be minor fines given out, but overall this a non story." The good old GAA sweep it under the carpet mentality.
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 14/11/2022 12:19:37
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I see we have former Carlow hurler, Pat Coady, tweeting out the following after yesterday's game:
"They (St Mullins) get unreal hardship and just pick themselves up and go again. Leaders all over the field. Opposition more interested in mouthing and trying to get in lads faces half the time today. Love seeing that kind of carry on get its just desserts."
No disputing that some of Ferns's players were/are mouthy but I find remarks such as the one above to be highly disingenuous and are a big cultural issue with the GAA. Too many people believe that their team can never do anything wrong and that the opposition are always in the wrong and that the referee is therefore biased against their team. Insinuating that St Mullins are a cleaner and more upstanding team than Ferns is all well and good until you realise that their goalscorer absolutely screamed his head off at Patrick Breen after scoring St Mullins's goal. Again, not saying that Ferns don't have their own issues but the above tweet is highly disingenuous.
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 239 - 14/11/2022 12:19:52
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Was in Carlow myself yesterday and have to agree that Ferns simply must have huge regrets. They were second fiddle for much of the game, particularly in terms of primary possession, but still came with a bit of momentum at the right time to give themselves a chance of stealing it or at least forcing extra time.
That missed goal chance near the end was crucial, and while I don't want to be hard on Ian Byrne, can't help wondering if the outcome would have been different if it had fallen instead to somebody like Diarmuid Doyle or Bitsy O'Connor (who was out injured, but otherwise would have been expected to be on for the closing stages).
I know that St. Mullins were even longer than Ferns without championship action, and so it was much the same for both sides yesterday, but I still have to wonder too if the result yesterday will see more support emerge for going to alternate blocks in the hurling/football championships here, instead of sticking with hurling first. Playing practice matches over the past four/five/six weeks would all have been well and good, but still, those practice matches wouldn't have had the same intensity as a county quarter-final, semi-final and final during the same time. That bit of extra "edge" you'd have got from championship matches might have made a difference yesterday, particularly against a team that wouldn't have been playing intense championship matches themselves." If Ferns had of gone into the game on the back of a weeks richly deserved celebrating, I still think they would have been very close with St Mullins.
Dare I say while the Wexford club championships are hugely competitive is the standard that good?
Where would Ferns rank out of all the teams in the All Ireland club championships for 2022?
They achieved their goal for 2022 winning the county championship. I'm sure they will lose little if any sleep over yesterday
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 14/11/2022 12:23:17
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