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Wexford Club Championships

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Would Wexford clubs not just focus on hurling with alternate weeks though? You will find plenty of clubs will put out a junior team in the football, to the overall detriment of football.
As I said on the other thread I don't put Wexford's poor record down to the gap. I think the style of hurling in Wexford is a bigger reason, Wexford clubs are a bit green when it is a dogfight in November and can't win a 50/50 or a 40/60 ball one on one.
The obsession with sweepers, etc, and the "total hurling" baloney at every level of the game in Wexford has been found out when they meet teams with aerial ability and a bit more fight in the dog. As a result, Wexford clubs carry little or no goal threat and better opposition teams can find ways around the sweepers easily.
People might not like it, but this is what I see going to adult matches and down to my youngest lad u14."
Think alternate weeks or blocks will probably affect how clubs approach football too. As regards style of play you have to play to your strengths. There aren't many great big ball winning forwards playing for any Wexford clubs. It's a problem right up to the Senior intercounty team. Kyle Firman looked one of the best forwards in the Senior Championship this year. Cathal Doyle was one of the top scorers in the Intermediate championship. Both are far from big.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 14/11/2022 18:26:43    2447579

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Has anybody's club met yet to decide which way they're going to vote on the substantive things?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 16/11/2022 12:41:04    2447756

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Has anybody's club met yet to decide which way they're going to vote on the substantive things?"
I hope so, given the pages and pages of posts about it.
(Ours hasn't yet)

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 452 - 16/11/2022 13:14:17    2447766

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Has anybody's club met yet to decide which way they're going to vote on the substantive things?"
Yep we have, voted to go with the alternate blocks proposals, pretty unanimous in ours that change was needed.

Actually had a few people saying if it was a split season again theyre not sure if they would be involved with teams next year.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1044 - 16/11/2022 15:29:25    2447801

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Has anybody's club met yet to decide which way they're going to vote on the substantive things?"
Not yet

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 16/11/2022 18:18:43    2447820

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They should hurry up, the vote is next Tuesday.
For all the pages of debate on here, I would think the numbers who really care about the issue are maybe double the number of posters debating it on here.
Clubs will just get on with it. No matter what the format, they have dealt with worse up until just before covid when they hadn't a foggy when they were playing.
And you can't please everyone anyway so no matter what, people will be whining. Water finds its level.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 452 - 17/11/2022 11:25:10    2447887

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "They should hurry up, the vote is next Tuesday.
For all the pages of debate on here, I would think the numbers who really care about the issue are maybe double the number of posters debating it on here.
Clubs will just get on with it. No matter what the format, they have dealt with worse up until just before covid when they hadn't a foggy when they were playing.
And you can't please everyone anyway so no matter what, people will be whining. Water finds its level."
I'd say otherwise about any "need" to hurry up. The vote is not until next Tuesday, and I'd say Thursday & Friday nights are most common for club meetings (my own club is meeting tomorrow night, for instance). So long as decisions are made by Monday night, it would be time enough.

Either way, yes, it will be important for all to just get on with it, no matter what's decided. Wouldn't be impressed with the attitude of some people mentioned above, who apparently threatened to walk away if the split hurling/football season is to continue. Sounds sulky and childish to me. Whatever decision is made will be at a meeting where every club has an equal vote, so would like to think people will respect the decision no matter what it is, instead of throwing the toys out of the pram.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 17/11/2022 11:39:19    2447894

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "They should hurry up, the vote is next Tuesday.
For all the pages of debate on here, I would think the numbers who really care about the issue are maybe double the number of posters debating it on here.
Clubs will just get on with it. No matter what the format, they have dealt with worse up until just before covid when they hadn't a foggy when they were playing.
And you can't please everyone anyway so no matter what, people will be whining. Water finds its level."
It wasn't dealt with. That's why the CPA were formed and there was the possibility of a players strike. That's why we at least have certainty as to when the club championships are happening.
As you say though whichever proposal gets the most votes will be implemented and those who didn't vote for it will just have to get on with it.
And I agree most people, including the posters on here, wouldn't think the structure was all that important compared to the debate about when we aptly the club championships would be during the year. On here we will debate stuff but I certainly won't be in any way upset whatever format is chosen at the end of the day.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 17/11/2022 11:49:48    2447901

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Regardless of what the vote is on the format at least now there is a specific timeline of when games will be played .. that was in my opinion the biggest bugbear especially for younger players .. At least now you can go off on a J1 / holiday etc etc and know when you need to be back to prepare for a championship .. Before it was 'Ah we might have a game in '

MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 92 - 17/11/2022 15:53:47    2447948

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https://m.independent.ie/regionals/wexford/sport/gaa/wexford-gaa-clubs-ponder-2023-formats-as-structures-to-be-decided-at-county-board-meeting-42146361.html

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 18/11/2022 07:47:54    2447995

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Replying To Viking66:  "It wasn't dealt with. That's why the CPA were formed and there was the possibility of a players strike. That's why we at least have certainty as to when the club championships are happening.
As you say though whichever proposal gets the most votes will be implemented and those who didn't vote for it will just have to get on with it.
And I agree most people, including the posters on here, wouldn't think the structure was all that important compared to the debate about when we aptly the club championships would be during the year. On here we will debate stuff but I certainly won't be in any way upset whatever format is chosen at the end of the day."
This is it.

I think the championship structure is at most the 5th most important issue facing Wexford GAA at the moment.

It is not the end of the world that a Ferns team with 1 aging county player lost to a St. Mullins team with a hurler who would walk on to any county team, and who ran Ballyhale close in a Leinster final.Have a handful of players playing at McDonagh level for 1/2 of your team has to make a difference. It is good for Wexford GAA that the county team is spread over a host of clubs.

Instead of jibing and taking delight at Ferns and Oulart for their losses, what is happening to the football review? Does no one want to share their contributions, or that of their clubs? I have read this board since I moved to Wx to get up to speed and a common theme was a "Root and branch review" of football. Now it is happening, have you and your club had your say? (Based on the minutes of a co board meeting, many did not).

Castletown lost by 4 points only a few weeks after their county final, why didn't they fare better if the delay is the problem? Why are football clubs record so atrocious also? Why didn't hurling supporters bury the boot in to Castletown? Is there a mindset difference, and why hide behind a message board to get that jibe in?

Why was there so many walkovers in U19 hurling and football this year? What are clubs doing to retain players and stop losing them? What contributions have your club made to county convention regarding age groupings, player development, player retention, etc?

What is you and your clubs attitude to refereeing? Do you and your club managers and supporters "give respect"? Do you volunteer in your club? Are you over an underage team and have you done coaching courses, etc to upgrade your knowledge to the latest training methods, etc?

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 452 - 18/11/2022 10:21:02    2448010

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "This is it.

I think the championship structure is at most the 5th most important issue facing Wexford GAA at the moment.

It is not the end of the world that a Ferns team with 1 aging county player lost to a St. Mullins team with a hurler who would walk on to any county team, and who ran Ballyhale close in a Leinster final.Have a handful of players playing at McDonagh level for 1/2 of your team has to make a difference. It is good for Wexford GAA that the county team is spread over a host of clubs.

Instead of jibing and taking delight at Ferns and Oulart for their losses, what is happening to the football review? Does no one want to share their contributions, or that of their clubs? I have read this board since I moved to Wx to get up to speed and a common theme was a "Root and branch review" of football. Now it is happening, have you and your club had your say? (Based on the minutes of a co board meeting, many did not).

Castletown lost by 4 points only a few weeks after their county final, why didn't they fare better if the delay is the problem? Why are football clubs record so atrocious also? Why didn't hurling supporters bury the boot in to Castletown? Is there a mindset difference, and why hide behind a message board to get that jibe in?

Why was there so many walkovers in U19 hurling and football this year? What are clubs doing to retain players and stop losing them? What contributions have your club made to county convention regarding age groupings, player development, player retention, etc?

What is you and your clubs attitude to refereeing? Do you and your club managers and supporters "give respect"? Do you volunteer in your club? Are you over an underage team and have you done coaching courses, etc to upgrade your knowledge to the latest training methods, etc?"
Castletown's Leinster game came a week after the county final and all that entails. Too short a turnover, and you'd need everything to fall your way anyway against a side with experience in the competition looking to actually win it. But I do feel there is too much pressure on counties to complete their championships by a specific weekend- Leinster shouldn't start till November to afford more fairness.

The under-19 championships were/are a farce because of its scheduling. The hurling shouldn't have been played midweek during the adult championships, and the football certainly shouldn't be played this time of year. As an example, Fethard are premier but have conceded two walkovers as they have a few on their intermediate team so are rightly giving that a crack. During the summer, everyone was sitting idle in the good weather aside from meaningless all-county league games- play the under-19 championships then, either on rotation or one code following the next. Would only take 10 weeks to complete in its current guise, and even if it spilled over into the start of the adult championship, it'll only be a select few clubs in that dilemma.

The 'give respect' campaign isn't worth the paper its written on unfortunately. And to be fair, it isn't the players, who are the ones lining up for the pre-game handshake, that are the issue, its the spectators, many of whom are old enough to know better.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1262 - 18/11/2022 10:59:07    2448017

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Replying To beano:  "Castletown's Leinster game came a week after the county final and all that entails. Too short a turnover, and you'd need everything to fall your way anyway against a side with experience in the competition looking to actually win it. But I do feel there is too much pressure on counties to complete their championships by a specific weekend- Leinster shouldn't start till November to afford more fairness.

The under-19 championships were/are a farce because of its scheduling. The hurling shouldn't have been played midweek during the adult championships, and the football certainly shouldn't be played this time of year. As an example, Fethard are premier but have conceded two walkovers as they have a few on their intermediate team so are rightly giving that a crack. During the summer, everyone was sitting idle in the good weather aside from meaningless all-county league games- play the under-19 championships then, either on rotation or one code following the next. Would only take 10 weeks to complete in its current guise, and even if it spilled over into the start of the adult championship, it'll only be a select few clubs in that dilemma.

The 'give respect' campaign isn't worth the paper its written on unfortunately. And to be fair, it isn't the players, who are the ones lining up for the pre-game handshake, that are the issue, its the spectators, many of whom are old enough to know better."
Have to pick you up on what you say about the U19 championships and your suggestion for how they should have been run.

You say the hurling shouldn't have been midweek during the adult championships. Then you call for U19 to be played during the summer anyway, and point out how hurling and football together would take ten weeks. You make some allowance for the latter stages to spill over into the start of the adult championships all right, but still, let's say you'd expect eight weeks of U19 to be played before the adult competitions start.

Now consider that the adult hurling championships started on the weekend of June 25/26. Count back eight weeks from there, and you've have been starting the U19 championships at the beginning of May, and running them right throughout May and June - i.e. at the very time that the vast majority of U19 players are preparing for and sitting the Leaving Cert.

And you couldn't have started the U19 any earlier either, to allow for a break for the Leaving Cert. Our county minor hurling team was in action up to April 30 and possibly should have gone further, and our U20s played their Leinster Final on May 9. They too were maybe unlucky not to have gone further.

You couldn't expect clubs to field in an U19 championship without their county minor and U20 players, and you couldn't expect those players to play championship for both their clubs and county at the same time.

So where does that leave you?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 18/11/2022 12:10:32    2448031

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Addendum to above: maybe not the vast majority of U19 players involved with the Leaving Cert. But certainly a significant proportion of them.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 18/11/2022 12:31:19    2448034

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "This is it.

I think the championship structure is at most the 5th most important issue facing Wexford GAA at the moment.

It is not the end of the world that a Ferns team with 1 aging county player lost to a St. Mullins team with a hurler who would walk on to any county team, and who ran Ballyhale close in a Leinster final.Have a handful of players playing at McDonagh level for 1/2 of your team has to make a difference. It is good for Wexford GAA that the county team is spread over a host of clubs.

Instead of jibing and taking delight at Ferns and Oulart for their losses, what is happening to the football review? Does no one want to share their contributions, or that of their clubs? I have read this board since I moved to Wx to get up to speed and a common theme was a "Root and branch review" of football. Now it is happening, have you and your club had your say? (Based on the minutes of a co board meeting, many did not).

Castletown lost by 4 points only a few weeks after their county final, why didn't they fare better if the delay is the problem? Why are football clubs record so atrocious also? Why didn't hurling supporters bury the boot in to Castletown? Is there a mindset difference, and why hide behind a message board to get that jibe in?

Why was there so many walkovers in U19 hurling and football this year? What are clubs doing to retain players and stop losing them? What contributions have your club made to county convention regarding age groupings, player development, player retention, etc?

What is you and your clubs attitude to refereeing? Do you and your club managers and supporters "give respect"? Do you volunteer in your club? Are you over an underage team and have you done coaching courses, etc to upgrade your knowledge to the latest training methods, etc?"
Firstly I was hoping Ferns and Oulart would win as did anyone I know from Wexford.
Secondly I thought Castletown did very well against a very good Portarlington team.
Thirdly running u19s when lads are back at school and college and the underage soccer season is in full flow is asking for these kind of problems.
Fourthly yes, yes and yes.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 18/11/2022 12:57:21    2448039

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "This is it.

I think the championship structure is at most the 5th most important issue facing Wexford GAA at the moment.

It is not the end of the world that a Ferns team with 1 aging county player lost to a St. Mullins team with a hurler who would walk on to any county team, and who ran Ballyhale close in a Leinster final.Have a handful of players playing at McDonagh level for 1/2 of your team has to make a difference. It is good for Wexford GAA that the county team is spread over a host of clubs.

Instead of jibing and taking delight at Ferns and Oulart for their losses, what is happening to the football review? Does no one want to share their contributions, or that of their clubs? I have read this board since I moved to Wx to get up to speed and a common theme was a "Root and branch review" of football. Now it is happening, have you and your club had your say? (Based on the minutes of a co board meeting, many did not).

Castletown lost by 4 points only a few weeks after their county final, why didn't they fare better if the delay is the problem? Why are football clubs record so atrocious also? Why didn't hurling supporters bury the boot in to Castletown? Is there a mindset difference, and why hide behind a message board to get that jibe in?

Why was there so many walkovers in U19 hurling and football this year? What are clubs doing to retain players and stop losing them? What contributions have your club made to county convention regarding age groupings, player development, player retention, etc?

What is you and your clubs attitude to refereeing? Do you and your club managers and supporters "give respect"? Do you volunteer in your club? Are you over an underage team and have you done coaching courses, etc to upgrade your knowledge to the latest training methods, etc?"
Firstly I was hoping Ferns and Oulart would win as did anyone I know from Wexford.
Secondly I thought Castletown did very well against a very good Portarlington team.
Thirdly running u19s when lads are back at school and college and the underage soccer season is in full flow is asking for these kind of problems.
Fourthly yes, yes and yes.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 18/11/2022 12:57:31    2448040

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Have to pick you up on what you say about the U19 championships and your suggestion for how they should have been run.

You say the hurling shouldn't have been midweek during the adult championships. Then you call for U19 to be played during the summer anyway, and point out how hurling and football together would take ten weeks. You make some allowance for the latter stages to spill over into the start of the adult championships all right, but still, let's say you'd expect eight weeks of U19 to be played before the adult competitions start.

Now consider that the adult hurling championships started on the weekend of June 25/26. Count back eight weeks from there, and you've have been starting the U19 championships at the beginning of May, and running them right throughout May and June - i.e. at the very time that the vast majority of U19 players are preparing for and sitting the Leaving Cert.

And you couldn't have started the U19 any earlier either, to allow for a break for the Leaving Cert. Our county minor hurling team was in action up to April 30 and possibly should have gone further, and our U20s played their Leinster Final on May 9. They too were maybe unlucky not to have gone further.

You couldn't expect clubs to field in an U19 championship without their county minor and U20 players, and you couldn't expect those players to play championship for both their clubs and county at the same time.

So where does that leave you?"
Agreed I'm only glad I'm not on a fixtures committee. Real hiding to nothing. Impossible to find an ideal arrangement.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 18/11/2022 12:59:01    2448041

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To Pikeman96:  "Have to pick you up on what you say about the U19 championships and your suggestion for how they should have been run.

You say the hurling shouldn't have been midweek during the adult championships. Then you call for U19 to be played during the summer anyway, and point out how hurling and football together would take ten weeks. You make some allowance for the latter stages to spill over into the start of the adult championships all right, but still, let's say you'd expect eight weeks of U19 to be played before the adult competitions start.

Now consider that the adult hurling championships started on the weekend of June 25/26. Count back eight weeks from there, and you've have been starting the U19 championships at the beginning of May, and running them right throughout May and June - i.e. at the very time that the vast majority of U19 players are preparing for and sitting the Leaving Cert.

And you couldn't have started the U19 any earlier either, to allow for a break for the Leaving Cert. Our county minor hurling team was in action up to April 30 and possibly should have gone further, and our U20s played their Leinster Final on May 9. They too were maybe unlucky not to have gone further.

You couldn't expect clubs to field in an U19 championship without their county minor and U20 players, and you couldn't expect those players to play championship for both their clubs and county at the same time.

So where does that leave you?"
Agreed I'm only glad I'm not on a fixtures committee. Real hiding to nothing. Impossible to find an ideal arrangement."
Unfortunate reality is that while U19/20/21 is an important grade, it's always been a problem one as regards fitting it into the calendar. It's close to 30 years since I togged out at that age myself and I've seen just about everything being tried with it in the meantime, without any ideal arrangement ever being found.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 18/11/2022 13:19:41    2448053

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Addendum to above: maybe not the vast majority of U19 players involved with the Leaving Cert. But certainly a significant proportion of them."
How many weekends does the Leaving Cert encompass? Two at max. It would definitely be achievable. Could even start it during the Easter weekend to free up more space (not everything has to evolve around the county panels) Now we have lads at the end of their adult campaigns, after starting college, one of the biggest milestones in anyone's life, some of whom have joined a Freshers team set up, playing in the dregs of winter on heavy pitches in bad weather. Could genuinely have had no break for eleven months, and will surely be back doing S and C in January- god forbid letting chaps having a break in case they might want to try other sports.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1262 - 18/11/2022 13:37:29    2448055

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Replying To beano:  "How many weekends does the Leaving Cert encompass? Two at max. It would definitely be achievable. Could even start it during the Easter weekend to free up more space (not everything has to evolve around the county panels) Now we have lads at the end of their adult campaigns, after starting college, one of the biggest milestones in anyone's life, some of whom have joined a Freshers team set up, playing in the dregs of winter on heavy pitches in bad weather. Could genuinely have had no break for eleven months, and will surely be back doing S and C in January- god forbid letting chaps having a break in case they might want to try other sports."
Okay. There's no decision being made at next week's meeting about U19/20, as they're wating first for a decision nationally on the whole U17/18 thing, since that will impact whether it's U19 or U20 that's run going forward.

Could be February before there's any decisions to be made on when to run U19/20. That means you've still got loads of time to get your club to go in with a proposal that a club championship that involves players doing the Leaving Cert should actually be run during the Leaving Cert. See how far you get....

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 18/11/2022 14:06:22    2448061

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