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Wexford Club Championships

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Clubs received an email from county board that the proposals for the the format and structure of the 2023 Wexford Club Championships will be circulated to all clubs on the 10th Nov before a county committee meeting on the 22nd to decide structures for 2023.

So should know then whether there is anything new in the proposals.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 303 - 04/11/2022 12:16:13    2446461

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Yup. This is going to be very interesting and I think it deserves a thread of its own here all right.

Also think it'll be important for people here to remember that nothing new can be put on the table at this stage, outside of the proposals already submitted by clubs, so no point in suggesting whole new structures here that haven't been formally lodged.

Will be interesting even to see how many clubs put proposals forward. Think normally it's only maybe four or five. Wouldn't surprise me if there are many more this time.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 04/11/2022 12:35:54    2446465

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Yup. This is going to be very interesting and I think it deserves a thread of its own here all right.

Also think it'll be important for people here to remember that nothing new can be put on the table at this stage, outside of the proposals already submitted by clubs, so no point in suggesting whole new structures here that haven't been formally lodged.

Will be interesting even to see how many clubs put proposals forward. Think normally it's only maybe four or five. Wouldn't surprise me if there are many more this time."
Got mine in. Don't think most clubs will go for it though! Be interesting to see what changes are made as I think we had a very well run and organised club championship season this year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 04/11/2022 12:51:56    2446472

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Replying To Viking66:  "Got mine in. Don't think most clubs will go for it though! Be interesting to see what changes are made as I think we had a very well run and organised club championship season this year."
I say fair play to you for putting it in properly anyway, no matter what way it goes. Too many hammer on here and in other places about what "should" be done, without ever doing anything about it when they have the opportunity themselves.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 04/11/2022 13:53:11    2446489

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Replying To Viking66:  "Got mine in. Don't think most clubs will go for it though! Be interesting to see what changes are made as I think we had a very well run and organised club championship season this year."
I would have thought its a club decision what observation to put in?

Thats whats happening in our club and has done before, meeting next monday to discuss the options and putting the proposal in.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1044 - 04/11/2022 14:31:28    2446499

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Replying To tearintom:  "I would have thought its a club decision what observation to put in?

Thats whats happening in our club and has done before, meeting next monday to discuss the options and putting the proposal in."
It is. You put your proposal to your club and they send it in if it gets approved. Your lads are leaving it late to get your proposals in Tearintom. The proposals will be circulated back to the clubs on the 10th.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 04/11/2022 15:12:28    2446504

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Replying To tearintom:  "I would have thought its a club decision what observation to put in?

Thats whats happening in our club and has done before, meeting next monday to discuss the options and putting the proposal in."
I'm taking it that Viking66 brought his proposal to his club, they considered it, and then put it forward on behalf of the club. It wouldn't have been open to him to submit it directly to County Board as an individual.

By the way, have to advise that if your club is planning to meet next Monday to discuss putting in a proposal, then you may as well call off the meeting now. The closing date for submissions was last Friday (October 28).

All you can do at this stage is meet to discuss the proposals submitted by other clubs, and decide which of them to support. But you won't be able to do that Monday night either, because the details are not to be sent around until next Thursday.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 04/11/2022 16:18:34    2446510

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I'm taking it that Viking66 brought his proposal to his club, they considered it, and then put it forward on behalf of the club. It wouldn't have been open to him to submit it directly to County Board as an individual.

By the way, have to advise that if your club is planning to meet next Monday to discuss putting in a proposal, then you may as well call off the meeting now. The closing date for submissions was last Friday (October 28).

All you can do at this stage is meet to discuss the proposals submitted by other clubs, and decide which of them to support. But you won't be able to do that Monday night either, because the details are not to be sent around until next Thursday."
Turns out our proposal also went in already, my bad for missing the last committee meeting but the proposal was as expected.

Our meeting tomorrow night is even more interesting but won't get into that here!!

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1044 - 06/11/2022 19:22:20    2446671

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Heard a suggestion from somebody over the weekend that how Ferns (and to a lesser degree, Oulart) get on in the hurling next Sunday might have an effect on how clubs decide to vote on the whole hurling first/football first/alternate weeks thing.

His theory is that if Ferns go down badly, like the Rapps did last year, there'll be a growing feeling that the long gap between County Final and the Leinster Championship is a bad thing, and clubs might be more likely to want to avoid it in future.

However, if Ferns do well, then it might be thought that a long lay-off isn't necessarily such a bad thing after all, and there might be more support for sticking with hurling first.

Interesting theory anyway!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 06/11/2022 21:57:40    2446689

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Heard a suggestion from somebody over the weekend that how Ferns (and to a lesser degree, Oulart) get on in the hurling next Sunday might have an effect on how clubs decide to vote on the whole hurling first/football first/alternate weeks thing.

His theory is that if Ferns go down badly, like the Rapps did last year, there'll be a growing feeling that the long gap between County Final and the Leinster Championship is a bad thing, and clubs might be more likely to want to avoid it in future.

However, if Ferns do well, then it might be thought that a long lay-off isn't necessarily such a bad thing after all, and there might be more support for sticking with hurling first.

Interesting theory anyway!"
That's perfectly understandable and probably will be a saying factor depending on how they get on. The last two years the wexford football champions have probably given better performances than the previous 18 (or whatever the gap was back to the last senior win pre shels last year).
I still think the Wexford hurling Champs have been very poor since Ourlart finished up at senior even pre the split club season. Think it'll help in the preparation and a sharpness but still think they'll struggle outside of Wexford. At least playing St Mullins the gap won't be an issue as St Mullins have just as big if not a bigger Gap since they won Carlow, so it's as fair a draw that Ferns could get.

Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 106 - 07/11/2022 09:55:27    2446702

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Don't think Ferns would beat St Mullins, even if our championship was run up to a few weeks ago. They seem to be running at a higher level and extremely strong for a Carlow team.

countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 278 - 07/11/2022 10:13:07    2446708

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Ferns will be up against it if you ask me. They did great to win Wexford this year and no disrespect but they met a Martins team with injuries to key players. But you need a bit of luck.
St. Mullins are a very good side and don't be fooled by them being from Carlow.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 452 - 08/11/2022 12:22:47    2446861

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So the proposals have been sent out. There are loads of different motions but for this discussion, i am just putting what the proposals are for championship structures.

Ballygarrett
Same as Buffers Alley recent proposals, three groups of four

Buffers Alley
To include a Junior C Grade.
The 2022 Junior B Hurling Championship had 39 teams: · Gorey: 9 teams · Enniscorthy: 11 teams · New Ross: 8 teams · Wexford: 11 Teams The purpose of the current Junior B and proposed Junior C championship is development of younger players and to provide a participation level for weaker players. With the Junior B championship arranged on a district basis, there is a large gap between top and bottom in each district. For the teams at the bottom of the tables in each district, consistently losing by large margins results in drop off in participation across the season and is not providing meaningful games at this level. It is also worth bearing in mind that 38 teams would equate to 3 grades of our 2 groups of 6 model at the higher grades. Set up a Junior C Championship on a district basis · For the first year, each district should grade the teams between Junior B and Junior C based on results from 2022 with the aim to split their current Junior B grade in half. · Where clubs have two teams in Junior B in 2022, one team would automatically be graded as Junior B and one as Junior C. · Districts organise Junior B and Junior C competitions to provide as many meaningful games as possible within the window allowed. · Junior C District champions and runners up both progress to County Junior C Quarter Finals (similar to the current Junior B format) · Promotion/relegation between Junior B and Junior C grades would be on a District basis, i.e. Junior C District champions would be promoted and bottom team in Junior B in the district would be relegated for the following year. If there is a need, similar could be done for football also.

Castletown, Harriers & Davidstown
Two groups of 6, only difference harriers propose replays instead of penalties.

Craanford.
Some changes to junior b championship grading but introduce junior b league.
A very long proposal son wont post here.

Glynn
Two groups of 6.

Oulart & Rathnure
Alternative blocks for hurling and football, no surprise there really.

St. Pats
Four groups of 3.

Tara Rocks
Stay the same.

I havent put every clubs proposal cause there is so many but most clubs wants the status q with two groups of 6 with varying proposals for hurling first to alternative weeks depending on which if you are a single club or dual club, again no surprises there.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 303 - 10/11/2022 17:33:17    2447118

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Replying To alwaysasub:  "So the proposals have been sent out. There are loads of different motions but for this discussion, i am just putting what the proposals are for championship structures.

Ballygarrett
Same as Buffers Alley recent proposals, three groups of four

Buffers Alley
To include a Junior C Grade.
The 2022 Junior B Hurling Championship had 39 teams: · Gorey: 9 teams · Enniscorthy: 11 teams · New Ross: 8 teams · Wexford: 11 Teams The purpose of the current Junior B and proposed Junior C championship is development of younger players and to provide a participation level for weaker players. With the Junior B championship arranged on a district basis, there is a large gap between top and bottom in each district. For the teams at the bottom of the tables in each district, consistently losing by large margins results in drop off in participation across the season and is not providing meaningful games at this level. It is also worth bearing in mind that 38 teams would equate to 3 grades of our 2 groups of 6 model at the higher grades. Set up a Junior C Championship on a district basis · For the first year, each district should grade the teams between Junior B and Junior C based on results from 2022 with the aim to split their current Junior B grade in half. · Where clubs have two teams in Junior B in 2022, one team would automatically be graded as Junior B and one as Junior C. · Districts organise Junior B and Junior C competitions to provide as many meaningful games as possible within the window allowed. · Junior C District champions and runners up both progress to County Junior C Quarter Finals (similar to the current Junior B format) · Promotion/relegation between Junior B and Junior C grades would be on a District basis, i.e. Junior C District champions would be promoted and bottom team in Junior B in the district would be relegated for the following year. If there is a need, similar could be done for football also.

Castletown, Harriers & Davidstown
Two groups of 6, only difference harriers propose replays instead of penalties.

Craanford.
Some changes to junior b championship grading but introduce junior b league.
A very long proposal son wont post here.

Glynn
Two groups of 6.

Oulart & Rathnure
Alternative blocks for hurling and football, no surprise there really.

St. Pats
Four groups of 3.

Tara Rocks
Stay the same.

I havent put every clubs proposal cause there is so many but most clubs wants the status q with two groups of 6 with varying proposals for hurling first to alternative weeks depending on which if you are a single club or dual club, again no surprises there."
Yeah 2 groups of 6 seems to be the favoured way to go.

7 clubs put forward putting hurling first whereas a total of 10 put forward alternate weeks/blocks in some guise or another and as a result the recommendation from the county board was to go with alternate blocks of two weeks. The horeswood alternate weeks one was interesting, 2 weeks hurling, followed by 2 weeks football then 3 weeks hurling and 3 weeks football followed by the hurling championship to completion and then football championship to completion.

Kilanerin had something similar,, alternate blocks and then after group stage finish out hurling championship to completion and the football championship to completion.

Also a proposal for promotion and relegation in the leagues which is a good thing but one of them had 3 going up and 3 going down whereas i think 2 would be more than enough.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1044 - 11/11/2022 08:28:34    2447145

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Replying To tearintom:  "Yeah 2 groups of 6 seems to be the favoured way to go.

7 clubs put forward putting hurling first whereas a total of 10 put forward alternate weeks/blocks in some guise or another and as a result the recommendation from the county board was to go with alternate blocks of two weeks. The horeswood alternate weeks one was interesting, 2 weeks hurling, followed by 2 weeks football then 3 weeks hurling and 3 weeks football followed by the hurling championship to completion and then football championship to completion.

Kilanerin had something similar,, alternate blocks and then after group stage finish out hurling championship to completion and the football championship to completion.

Also a proposal for promotion and relegation in the leagues which is a good thing but one of them had 3 going up and 3 going down whereas i think 2 would be more than enough."
Agree 2 up and down would be enough although if there are 12 teams in each division then 3 wouldn't be the end of the world. Also if we go with 12 teams and alternating football and hurling then Horeswood/Kilanerins proposal would be best. It would be fairer on genuinely dual players than alternating every week.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 11/11/2022 13:39:03    2447188

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Replying To tearintom:  "Yeah 2 groups of 6 seems to be the favoured way to go.

7 clubs put forward putting hurling first whereas a total of 10 put forward alternate weeks/blocks in some guise or another and as a result the recommendation from the county board was to go with alternate blocks of two weeks. The horeswood alternate weeks one was interesting, 2 weeks hurling, followed by 2 weeks football then 3 weeks hurling and 3 weeks football followed by the hurling championship to completion and then football championship to completion.

Kilanerin had something similar,, alternate blocks and then after group stage finish out hurling championship to completion and the football championship to completion.

Also a proposal for promotion and relegation in the leagues which is a good thing but one of them had 3 going up and 3 going down whereas i think 2 would be more than enough."
The alternate blocks thing might look the more likely, on the grounds that more clubs proposed some form of it than proposed sticking with hurling first, and also that Co. Board management are proposing it too. But two things maybe worth considering:

1 - There are actually three different variations of the "alternate blocks" proposal going forward: the Co. Board "merged" one, the Horeswood one, and the Kilanerin one. Don't know exactly how the voting will be done on the night, but this might split the vote for alternate blocks.

2 - More than half of clubs didn't put in any proposal at all. This often means they're happy with the status quo. If most of all of them vote to stick with the way things are (i.e. hurling first), that will be hugely significant on the night.

Either way, seems it's generally accepted now that football first simply isn't going to happen.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 14/11/2022 11:09:34    2447488

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "The alternate blocks thing might look the more likely, on the grounds that more clubs proposed some form of it than proposed sticking with hurling first, and also that Co. Board management are proposing it too. But two things maybe worth considering:

1 - There are actually three different variations of the "alternate blocks" proposal going forward: the Co. Board "merged" one, the Horeswood one, and the Kilanerin one. Don't know exactly how the voting will be done on the night, but this might split the vote for alternate blocks.

2 - More than half of clubs didn't put in any proposal at all. This often means they're happy with the status quo. If most of all of them vote to stick with the way things are (i.e. hurling first), that will be hugely significant on the night.

Either way, seems it's generally accepted now that football first simply isn't going to happen."
Shame in a way. Football first would mean whoever won Wexfords top 3 grades in hurling would have a gameplan to suit heavier pitches and wetter weather and experience of those conditions to match. They would almost certainly do better in the Leinsters then.
But, and it's a big but, the flipside would be that our own championship games would be a poorer watch. Not only from the point of view of the game itself but also from the point of view that as a spectator it was great to sit off in the sun watching the games in the good weather. Being as the hurling championship draws far bigger crowds than its football counterpart this has to be a factor too.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 14/11/2022 15:16:40    2447534

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Replying To Viking66:  "Shame in a way. Football first would mean whoever won Wexfords top 3 grades in hurling would have a gameplan to suit heavier pitches and wetter weather and experience of those conditions to match. They would almost certainly do better in the Leinsters then.
But, and it's a big but, the flipside would be that our own championship games would be a poorer watch. Not only from the point of view of the game itself but also from the point of view that as a spectator it was great to sit off in the sun watching the games in the good weather. Being as the hurling championship draws far bigger crowds than its football counterpart this has to be a factor too."
The alternate blocks proposal would see all county semi-finals and finals (hurling and football) being played in October, same time as they're played in most other counties. Would make for duller conditions all right, but as you say, at least the winners of the hurling championships would be more battle hardened in those conditions as they'd be preparing for Leinster.

On the other thing, playing quarter-finals etc. from late September onwards might actually increase the crowds, rather than what you'd be inclined to think. Apparently attendance at the hurling quarter-finals this year was well down on other years, because they were played on the August Bank Holiday weekend, when many people would have been away.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 14/11/2022 15:43:11    2447546

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Would Wexford clubs not just focus on hurling with alternate weeks though? You will find plenty of clubs will put out a junior team in the football, to the overall detriment of football.
As I said on the other thread I don't put Wexford's poor record down to the gap. I think the style of hurling in Wexford is a bigger reason, Wexford clubs are a bit green when it is a dogfight in November and can't win a 50/50 or a 40/60 ball one on one.
The obsession with sweepers, etc, and the "total hurling" baloney at every level of the game in Wexford has been found out when they meet teams with aerial ability and a bit more fight in the dog. As a result, Wexford clubs carry little or no goal threat and better opposition teams can find ways around the sweepers easily.
People might not like it, but this is what I see going to adult matches and down to my youngest lad u14.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 452 - 14/11/2022 16:32:03    2447560

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Would Wexford clubs not just focus on hurling with alternate weeks though?


Many of them would, the same way as was always done before the split season. And if football went first, the same ones would concentrate on hurling anyway, even during the football championship. Which is why I and at least others believe the current system of hurling first, then football, is actually best for football overall, despite many "football people" still holding against it. There's no other way in which every club in the county (bar the hurling champions preparing for Leinster) would concentrate fully on football for such an extended period.

Still, as I've said before, my own preference would be for the alternate blocks. I think everybody gets something out of it from a club championship point of view. No matter which code you prefer, you'd be getting regular games in July & August, you're not likely to miss as many games in your preferred code if you pick up an injury, and the two-week gap before a semi-final and final would have to be a benefit as well.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1225 - 14/11/2022 17:55:12    2447575

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