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Replying To Viking66: "Also Beano how are Dublin a bogey team of ours recently? They've only beaten us once in the last 6 years championships" Yeah and when was that defeat? Last year, when we ironically came into the championship full of optimism after a good league campaign, the trouncing to Waterford aside. They also handily beat us in the Walsh Cup final last year too.
And actually that 'in last 6 years championship' is a bit facetious as we didn't play at all in the two Covid years, or in Davy's first year.
Draw in 2019 when we were in better fettle than we are now.
We were only two point winners in 2018.
They trounced us in 2016.
So in the last four championship meetings, it reads: Wexford 1, Draw 1, Dublin 2. Considering we'd be eyeing up each other as the team to target for the top three qualification spot, I would consider them a recent bogey team alright.
And that's not even mentioning the fact they always seem to introduce well-conditioned young lads into the side straight from underage. Physically superior to ourselves.
I don't want to get into an argument with you by the way, and I admire your optimism, but not everything is a bed of roses.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1502 - 27/02/2023 10:52:58
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "That was what I was trying to say.
If a player gets better coaching at a development squad, they will be a better hurler in their club. I see this first hand in my own club. Any good coach can turn up to development squad training and see how things are done. Mostly, it is the same training only quicker, faster and at a higher tempo. This will lead to a better club game. Wexford need players exposed to better coaching in hurling and football.
Claiming lads are only involved to get free gear, etc is laughable. This isn't the 80's when a pair of county socks and shorts was a sought after item. Any parent would drive to the O'Neills shop in Dublin and buy them all that gear for 10% of the expense they have had on diesel driving to development squads and their training sessions, matches, and so on all year round.
One other thing I will add. With my alma mater hat on, anyone who believes that Wexford's commercial prowess is a bad thing or something needs to wake up. You can do nothing without money in GAA any more and without the backing of a sugar daddy a la Limerick or huge sponsorship like Dublin and to a lesser extent Cork. Coaches, facilities, even down to hurling balls, it all costs money. And funding both codes makes most expenses hit on the double. Don't kid yourselves that the crowd in Wexford Park and the fireworks were money badly spent. If the place wasn't packed with kids that night, they would have been at home watching Moh Salah and Ronaldo, is that better than the promotion the game got that night?
But there may be trouble ahead for Wexford unless they can find out what is going on with the 19-25 age bracket, very few players in this age group involved is a worry. This age group need to push those older lads out the door but it is not happening. Why isn't it happening? Why are so many top club hurlers not committing? I always thought this was a Dublin problem......" That's a good post Exiled. As regards your last paragraph in that age group Mcguckin is progressing nicely. Conor Foley, Byrne Dunbar, Pepper, Clancy, Kinsella, Doran, Scallan, Banville, Richie Lawlor and Kyle Firman who both got injured, and Josh Shiel have all had a good look this year and all have been given gym programmes etc to get up to size as all are victims of our abject lack of underage S and C that existed up until 2 years ago . And lads like Higgins, Clarke, Niall Murphy and Carthy, even Dwyer, Joe O Connor, Oisin Foley and Conor Firman, who should've got what the other lads are getting now, as regards gym programs and experience against top intercounty sides in League games, 4 years ago, are still only 25 and will only get better from their experience. Even Shane Reck didn't get a look in til a couple of years ago.
As regards lads not committing there aren't that many in fairness. Jack Cullen? Cian Molloy apparently had a minor falling out. AJ Redmond left the panel not sure why. Who else can you think of that would be good enough?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16752 - 27/02/2023 11:02:55
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Replying To Ban: "Clare did to Wexford what Limerick did to Clare..
The next outing is important for Wexford.." It is. And a correction to my last post the Cork game isn't for another 2 weeks so only 5 weeks out from championship. I think Egan has to get our championship team together and try different shapes and tactics with them and get them used to eachother now.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16752 - 27/02/2023 11:04:43
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My only questions on yesterdays game are.
Was there not 3-4 more established players that could have played yesterday?
I've seen this kind of thing before with teams when you throw in a lot of the younger players together in one game and end up playing another team at full strength. It reminded me of some games with college teams in the league. We would basically have one or two of the starting 15 playing against another college going at full throttle and we would get absolutely pulverised. We would meet the same team 8 weeks later in the championship and it would be a totally different story. The responsibility for yesterdays whitewash is the Wexford management. They should have known full well what was coming once Clare released their team. Yesterday won't define Wexford's season but it will scar a few of those young lads for a few weeks.
When do we think we are so good that we can basically ignore the league and play it almost like a Walsh Cup with the selections so far.
Can we afford to go into the Galway game without a win against Cork or Limerick?
Realistically I think we are in a battle this season to finished 2nd or 3rd in the Leinster Group. Away to Galway is going to be tough, Home to Antrim we win easily, Away to Dublin tough but winnable, Home to Westmeath a cricket score win and then Home to Kilkenny in a game where its 50/50 with Kilkenny slight favorites at this point in my mind.
I expect nothing but a huge reaction from the Wexford players next day out.
hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 27/02/2023 11:08:13
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Replying To beano: "I haven't perfected the art of being in two places at once yet, so didn't travel, but unfortunately you don't need to physically be there to analyse a 22-point defeat. The fact that the eternal optimist Tom Dempsey was even critical of the tactics and overall display on the radio sums up the day.
Tell me this, why is it that everything surrounding the fortunes of the hurlers is seen as sacred? I mean did we ever concede as big a tally against Cody's legendary team, even when we were in the doldrums? Like fair enough, had we got beaten by single figures but put in a decent display and I was criticising it, that'd be overboard. But there was nothing- no tactics of any note, no cut from the players (apart from the usual Reck and Conor Mac), nothing for the crowd to get excited about. And you didn't need to be in Wexford Park discotheque to notice that.
Now I hope its all part of the grand plan and that we'll click come championship. But we aren't the Limerick green machine or Cody's Cats- this is Wexford. There is no guarantee we'll have improved enough by then. I hope I'm wrong, but when push comes to shove, what's the bet our poor shooting will be our downfall again (ironically it wasn't today)? Dublin is obviously the biggest name on the fixture calendar right now, but they have been a bogey team of ours recently and have upgraded their manager in the interim.
I don't know how you picked out my post amid all the others either. I am far from the biggest critic, and give due praise in victory too. Have actually stood up for some of the players that others have been too quick to write off as well." I've no issue with you not to going to game, 18 Euro for league games is scandalous in my opinion, I won't go to the Cork game as its on TV and that decision was meant long before throw in yesterday, if we had hockeyed Clare yesterday I still would be doing that. What does annoy me is people posting paragraphs here during games, wait til full game for god sake but someone who is not even watching the game doing that is another thing altogether. At least you didn't make up stories like another poster who mysteriously went missing since he was called out on it.
You pose the question 'Tell me this, why is it that everything surrounding the fortunes of the hurlers is seen as sacred? I'm sorry I think that's complete and utter nonsense and its just your football chip on the shoulder coming out, I actually think the hurlers get alot of flack locally, you know the good old Irish mentality of putting your own down, some people can't contain themselves frankly when we have a poor performance, I don't like saying this but I think they get alot more flack than the footballers who are a bit on an non entity to alot of people, I'd say there's alot of casual sports fans around Wexford who didn't even know we were playing Waterford on Saturday, as I said I don't like saying that but I think its the reality. What we conceded yesterday certainly isn't good enough and far too much of it was caused by us coughing up possession coming out of defence, what I would say is comparing scoring tallies to even 10-15 years is a bit futile given the way scoring rates are, Kilkenny lost an AI final last year scoring 2-26, Cork won one in 1999 scoring 13 points, even look back at the classic 2009 Kilkenny Tipp final finished 2-22 0-23, back then it was considered high scoring, these days that would nearly be an average score.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 27/02/2023 11:21:45
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Yesterday certainly wasn't good enough on so many levels but to put things in context what Clare were missing was the equivalent of us being at full strength bar Fanning, Paudie Foley and Rory O'Connor, heard an interview with Lohan after where he said he played his strongest available team. What we had playing is equivalent of Clare playing Flanagan, Diarmuid Ryan, Cleary, Malone, Duggan &Ian Galvin and been short the rest of the team from yesterday.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 27/02/2023 11:30:44
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Replying To StoreysTash: "I have been keeping a loose eye on Wexford's league and I saw the highlights of yesterday and the Galway game.
Something is not right when young players get their chance, at home, in front of a big crowd, and show the indifference and lack of effort which Wexford showed yesterday and in the second half v Galway.
When you get a chance, most players who might lack something in experience or ability tend to lack nothing in effort and bursting a gut and mainly are too fired up. Highlights can be cruel on players and teams but it looked like Wexford players hardly broke a sweat yesterday and Clare ran through them at their ease. The scores came so easy to them.
I hated some of my team mates who didn't at least give everything they had and at least empty the tank and make life hard. You don't need to be a top hurler to make life difficult for an opponent.
Somebody said that a forward needs to make life hard for the backs, it is so true. As a corner forward you are the first defender. Just letting them out with the ball, is going to cause problems at the other end.
A big response v Limerick and Cork is the least Wexford supporters deserve." Lack of effort or a fitness issue? Time will tell but one of my biggest issues with Tipp when Egan was part of the backroom team was that they were comfortably the unfittest team in the championship. Hands on heads and hip gasping for air. I havent seen enough of Wexford to say that is the case but its hard to see new players would lack for effort..
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 27/02/2023 11:30:45
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Replying To countyman2022: "Great to see all the support for the lads again. I don't think there is another county with such fickle/bandwagon supporters as Wexford. 10 guys playing yesterday that wont start championship. Just pull easy. He's trying to build a squad, have players that come in off bench in Champ who can make impact. Its February." It's bad to be over critical but it's just as bad to be over positive. Someone said it earlier, short term we'll be okay. Long term is very worrying. Those lads that were playing yesterday will be the starters in two-three years. Alot of them anyway. We've been told we're making great strides from the spoofers who run our player development. Plain lies is what it is.
Finchfurlong996 (Wexford) - Posts: 255 - 27/02/2023 11:34:08
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Replying To Finchfurlong996: "It's bad to be over critical but it's just as bad to be over positive. Someone said it earlier, short term we'll be okay. Long term is very worrying. Those lads that were playing yesterday will be the starters in two-three years. Alot of them anyway. We've been told we're making great strides from the spoofers who run our player development. Plain lies is what it is." I think you should volunteer to get involved in player development seeing as you think your an expert on it,
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 27/02/2023 11:58:38
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Replying To beano: "Yeah and when was that defeat? Last year, when we ironically came into the championship full of optimism after a good league campaign, the trouncing to Waterford aside. They also handily beat us in the Walsh Cup final last year too.
And actually that 'in last 6 years championship' is a bit facetious as we didn't play at all in the two Covid years, or in Davy's first year.
Draw in 2019 when we were in better fettle than we are now.
We were only two point winners in 2018.
They trounced us in 2016.
So in the last four championship meetings, it reads: Wexford 1, Draw 1, Dublin 2. Considering we'd be eyeing up each other as the team to target for the top three qualification spot, I would consider them a recent bogey team alright.
And that's not even mentioning the fact they always seem to introduce well-conditioned young lads into the side straight from underage. Physically superior to ourselves.
I don't want to get into an argument with you by the way, and I admire your optimism, but not everything is a bed of roses." It's far from a bed of roses. But lads criticising management for doing now what the same lads criticised them for not doing last year is hard to ####ing listen to Beano! Not you now!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16752 - 27/02/2023 11:59:08
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "I've no issue with you not to going to game, 18 Euro for league games is scandalous in my opinion, I won't go to the Cork game as its on TV and that decision was meant long before throw in yesterday, if we had hockeyed Clare yesterday I still would be doing that. What does annoy me is people posting paragraphs here during games, wait til full game for god sake but someone who is not even watching the game doing that is another thing altogether. At least you didn't make up stories like another poster who mysteriously went missing since he was called out on it.
You pose the question 'Tell me this, why is it that everything surrounding the fortunes of the hurlers is seen as sacred? I'm sorry I think that's complete and utter nonsense and its just your football chip on the shoulder coming out, I actually think the hurlers get alot of flack locally, you know the good old Irish mentality of putting your own down, some people can't contain themselves frankly when we have a poor performance, I don't like saying this but I think they get alot more flack than the footballers who are a bit on an non entity to alot of people, I'd say there's alot of casual sports fans around Wexford who didn't even know we were playing Waterford on Saturday, as I said I don't like saying that but I think its the reality. What we conceded yesterday certainly isn't good enough and far too much of it was caused by us coughing up possession coming out of defence, what I would say is comparing scoring tallies to even 10-15 years is a bit futile given the way scoring rates are, Kilkenny lost an AI final last year scoring 2-26, Cork won one in 1999 scoring 13 points, even look back at the classic 2009 Kilkenny Tipp final finished 2-22 0-23, back then it was considered high scoring, these days that would nearly be an average score." I was at the Leinster final in 2008 in Croke Park that we lost by around the same and that was with our full first team playing!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16752 - 27/02/2023 12:01:54
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Yesterday certainly wasn't good enough on so many levels but to put things in context what Clare were missing was the equivalent of us being at full strength bar Fanning, Paudie Foley and Rory O'Connor, heard an interview with Lohan after where he said he played his strongest available team. What we had playing is equivalent of Clare playing Flanagan, Diarmuid Ryan, Cleary, Malone, Duggan &Ian Galvin and been short the rest of the team from yesterday." Think Foudy might take Quilligans spot
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16752 - 27/02/2023 12:02:34
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Replying To Finchfurlong996: "It's bad to be over critical but it's just as bad to be over positive. Someone said it earlier, short term we'll be okay. Long term is very worrying. Those lads that were playing yesterday will be the starters in two-three years. Alot of them anyway. We've been told we're making great strides from the spoofers who run our player development. Plain lies is what it is." Actually go 1 step further given how much you slag off the county board will you just apply for county board chairman once and for all,
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 27/02/2023 12:10:23
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "I've no issue with you not to going to game, 18 Euro for league games is scandalous in my opinion, I won't go to the Cork game as its on TV and that decision was meant long before throw in yesterday, if we had hockeyed Clare yesterday I still would be doing that. What does annoy me is people posting paragraphs here during games, wait til full game for god sake but someone who is not even watching the game doing that is another thing altogether. At least you didn't make up stories like another poster who mysteriously went missing since he was called out on it.
You pose the question 'Tell me this, why is it that everything surrounding the fortunes of the hurlers is seen as sacred? I'm sorry I think that's complete and utter nonsense and its just your football chip on the shoulder coming out, I actually think the hurlers get alot of flack locally, you know the good old Irish mentality of putting your own down, some people can't contain themselves frankly when we have a poor performance, I don't like saying this but I think they get alot more flack than the footballers who are a bit on an non entity to alot of people, I'd say there's alot of casual sports fans around Wexford who didn't even know we were playing Waterford on Saturday, as I said I don't like saying that but I think its the reality. What we conceded yesterday certainly isn't good enough and far too much of it was caused by us coughing up possession coming out of defence, what I would say is comparing scoring tallies to even 10-15 years is a bit futile given the way scoring rates are, Kilkenny lost an AI final last year scoring 2-26, Cork won one in 1999 scoring 13 points, even look back at the classic 2009 Kilkenny Tipp final finished 2-22 0-23, back then it was considered high scoring, these days that would nearly be an average score." Yeah I do agree with you in that the hurlers generally get more flak than the footballers, due to being in the spotlight. But yesterday any criticism, and I like to think I wasn't too overboard, was well founded due to the manner of it and how it unfolded. I do accept too that scoring rates have increased in recent seasons, but at the same time Westmeath, Laois and the other so-called 'weaker' counties wouldn't have shipped such a high score, and at least would have showed hunger to counter-balance their deficencies.
And I was thinking about it last night (a league game hasn't played on my mind in a long time)- a player's county career is finite. There is no guarantee they'll be around for five years, nevermind ten plus. It's getting rarer for lads in their mid-30s to commit, but it is always an honour to put on a county jersey. And the management let down a few young lads yesterday with their approach. How many games are the lads that aren't nailed-on starters guaranteed to start in league and championship? Why not go hell for leather in every game, regardless of who is missing? They might be scarred by the experience and back firmly on the bench for the rest of the year. What's the point in that?
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1502 - 27/02/2023 12:37:58
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Regardless of the score etc etc etc, for me it was the lack of effort or perceived effort from yesterday. At one point before the game was started Wexford lined up in the center of the field doing 20 yards sprints. Their body language to these sprints told it all and it reflected in the entire first half. Clare were well up for this game and absolutely destroyed us from 1 to 15
Whats the answer? .. I don't know .. you can blame this that and the other .. but the fact is a lot of the fringe players got their chance yesterday and didn't look overly interested or bothered in making an impact. If you were an unused sub yesterday then you probably be happier you didn't get game time. I don't mind getting bet - but i do mind loosing with that effort yesterday.
It would be interesting to review the GPS stats for each team just to compare.
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 209 - 27/02/2023 12:38:42
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Replying To Viking66: "Think Foudy might take Quilligans spot" With the help of God the amount of howlers Quilligan makes each year ( 2 V Wexford last year)
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 999 - 27/02/2023 12:53:01
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Think the time for extreme experimenting and giving lads experience is now over. Based on what I've seen with my own 2 eyes so far this season, and assuming all the regular starters who we haven't seen are fit and in good form, I'd go with the following team provisionally for the championship depending how they fare out against Cork and Limerick-
Fanning
S Reck, Ryan, Donohue
MOH, D Reck, Carty
DOK, Dunbar
Dwyer, Mogie, O Foley
Mac, Chin, Rory
Subs-J Lawlor, K Foley, Mcguckin, R Lawlor, Hearne, Banville, Devitt, Clarke, Higgins, Flood, Conor Foley, not to be brought on unless absolutely necessary as the u20 games aren't 7 games apart from the Senior ones. Dee can drop in well when the halfbacks and Donohue push forward to get scores.
Pretty much the same team as last year except good options off the bench who have now mostly done well in games or parts of games this year and have more experience now on the back of it. Especially James Lawlor, Devitt, K Foley, Mcguckin, Hearne and R Lawlor, if back in time, wouldn't weaken the team too much if they had to come on. They could even be brought on between the 50th and 60th minutes to freshen up the team especially for any player who tires in the middle 8 positions who are going to have to work like dogs if we are going to beat any of the top teams. Clarke, Banville and Higgins all are more experienced now than last year also. Flood is very skilful and has good experience now at this stage and Conor Foley is included for halfback cover, though it would be best to see him play for the u20s and only come on at Senior in an emergency.
That's the team I'd like to see selected against Cork and Limerick if fully fit.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16752 - 27/02/2023 13:04:50
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Actually go 1 step further given how much you slag off the county board will you just apply for county board chairman once and for all," Imagine a giving that to a Horeswood man who barely lifted a hurl in his life!!
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 872 - 27/02/2023 13:08:57
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Replying To beano: "Yeah I do agree with you in that the hurlers generally get more flak than the footballers, due to being in the spotlight. But yesterday any criticism, and I like to think I wasn't too overboard, was well founded due to the manner of it and how it unfolded. I do accept too that scoring rates have increased in recent seasons, but at the same time Westmeath, Laois and the other so-called 'weaker' counties wouldn't have shipped such a high score, and at least would have showed hunger to counter-balance their deficencies.
And I was thinking about it last night (a league game hasn't played on my mind in a long time)- a player's county career is finite. There is no guarantee they'll be around for five years, nevermind ten plus. It's getting rarer for lads in their mid-30s to commit, but it is always an honour to put on a county jersey. And the management let down a few young lads yesterday with their approach. How many games are the lads that aren't nailed-on starters guaranteed to start in league and championship? Why not go hell for leather in every game, regardless of who is missing? They might be scarred by the experience and back firmly on the bench for the rest of the year. What's the point in that?" When lads were tiring and picking up knocks at the end of the game in Semple Stadium last year who did we have on the bench? Lads like K Foley, Dwyer, Mcguckin, Flood etc were already on. Clarke, Higgins, Hearne etc had played nearly no minutes all last year. He couldn't put them on he had no idea would they be able for the game. At least now we have seen all 3 and they have seen what exactly they are up against. He had to replace Damien Reck with Paul Morris, who is now retired but wouldn't be a back anyway. At least now he could bring Clarke and Devitt on if he had to replace a back. If he had to send Hearne on I think he would do OK now. Last year who knows? How would they know?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16752 - 27/02/2023 13:14:48
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Replying To Viking66: "Think the time for extreme experimenting and giving lads experience is now over. Based on what I've seen with my own 2 eyes so far this season, and assuming all the regular starters who we haven't seen are fit and in good form, I'd go with the following team provisionally for the championship depending how they fare out against Cork and Limerick-
Fanning
S Reck, Ryan, Donohue
MOH, D Reck, Carty
DOK, Dunbar
Dwyer, Mogie, O Foley
Mac, Chin, Rory
Subs-J Lawlor, K Foley, Mcguckin, R Lawlor, Hearne, Banville, Devitt, Clarke, Higgins, Flood, Conor Foley, not to be brought on unless absolutely necessary as the u20 games aren't 7 games apart from the Senior ones. Dee can drop in well when the halfbacks and Donohue push forward to get scores.
Pretty much the same team as last year except good options off the bench who have now mostly done well in games or parts of games this year and have more experience now on the back of it. Especially James Lawlor, Devitt, K Foley, Mcguckin, Hearne and R Lawlor, if back in time, wouldn't weaken the team too much if they had to come on. They could even be brought on between the 50th and 60th minutes to freshen up the team especially for any player who tires in the middle 8 positions who are going to have to work like dogs if we are going to beat any of the top teams. Clarke, Banville and Higgins all are more experienced now than last year also. Flood is very skilful and has good experience now at this stage and Conor Foley is included for halfback cover, though it would be best to see him play for the u20s and only come on at Senior in an emergency.
That's the team I'd like to see selected against Cork and Limerick if fully fit." I would be going with an almost identical line-up, but would accommodate McGuckin somewhere from the start. His work-rate is unrivalled when compared to others vying for the same position.
beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1502 - 27/02/2023 13:37:06
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