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Wexford Intercounty Hurling 2023

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Replying To Finchfurlong996:  "Are these players you mention are good hurlers in their own right but are they going to be as good as their direct opponents in Kilkenny and Galway? Probably not. Kilkenny are seemingly producing a top, young forward every year. We are very slow to get talent through to senior. The plan is with the county board is to win the All Ireland by 2027. Doubt they'll be in a final by then. The landscape of hurling is very competitive. At underage, Cork are very strong as well as Tipp. While in Leinster, Kilkenny are producing some serious hurlers again.

Offaly GAA was in a far worse position then we ever were. They get a plan together and in two years have a winning U20 football team and beaten in a minor final with the last puck of a game. They've won the same amount of underage titles as we have in the last decade. Our county board are a very well run board, financially but I have my doubts based on recent underage results, that they know how to run a successful player development plan. I say this as a complete outsider but who watches almost all underage and senior hurling games mind."
That Offaly minor hurling team didn't come from nowhere, they were by all accounts even at u14 seen as the best underage hurling team they produced in at least last 15-20 years maybe more, them and Tipp who met in the minor final actually met in the Tony Forrestial final in 2019 with mainly the same group of players, winning the u20 football seemed like a remarkable achievement alright, I was actually at the Leinster QF against ourselves in Wexford Park, if you told me that night they'd eventually win the all ireland I would have said your on another planet. In fairness Duignan seems to have steadied a rocky ship up there and moving things in the right direction, no harm either wouldn't meet a sounder or more knowledgeable bunch of supporters.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 09/02/2023 10:39:28    2457401

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What is our minor team looking like this year lads. We still have a few lads from last year under 20 they should be able to go close to a leinster title again hopefull

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 09/02/2023 10:55:21    2457406

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Why not start them then Viking? If you want to get them up to standard you have to start them somewhere, bringing players on when the game was lost is an insult to any player.
I get that Wexford have players to come back but the starting 15 had a ring of nothing new, you should be starting 3-4 new faces every year in every league game, unless you have nothing new to keep a squad turning over, otherwise players get complacent and that is the enemy of progress.
None of the problems with Wexford in the second half were new problems and they have been there since this team started senior hurling. Free taking has always been a major issue with this team and still has not been resolved. The inability to win ball in the forwards is another problem. Wexford's biggest weakness is the lack of a real target man of the Seamus Flanagan type and lack real dogs in the fight in the forward line. Nice hurlers, but you need both the battler and the finisher in every team and Wexford lack the battler.
Going to Wexford matches lacks real excitement, there is a huge lack of goalmouth action and pressure.
Looking at the Limerick Cork game, it was streets ahead of what Wexford and Galway had to offer. I don't buy the "don't show them your hand" jargon often talked about on here. Best way to sow a seed of doubt in a teams mind? Go out and beat them.
I will judge them on the year as a whole, but I have my doubts at the moment and not just this year I think the same issues have been there for a long time."
Agree with you 100% ExiledInWex - it's almost as if Wexford have no game plan especially in the forwards where it seems to be lump it down on Mac who rarely wins it and if he's not winning it on slow ground in February we are in bother. Even when Chin and Mac were in there against KK the ball was rarely sent long into them.. Compare to Cork who appeared to line up down the middle and then played the in to either corner where there was space for the forward to break on to. Or limerick who have the out ball on Flanagan when needed and he win's the majority of 50:50 that go in on him. Without Rory and Chin we have no marquee forward and we'd be better going with a full forward line with out and out pace like Pepper, Byrne Dunbar and AN Other.... maybe Dwyer.

grassroots01 (Wexford) - Posts: 182 - 09/02/2023 11:14:41    2457410

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Replying To Viking66:  "Agree as regards our underage set up, especially as regards S and C. I'm like you I watch as many underage games as I can get to too. But we are always smaller, not just height but also build, than whoever we are playing. 2019 minor v Galway stands out, even the u20s losing to Kildare. I can't think of any underage game I ever saw us in that we were bigger than our opponents."
One anomaly us as supporters must stop using as an excuse for last year is the fact we were down Pepper for the under-20s. Kilkenny were affected far worse than us, were missing Shine (who'd be further along his development than Pepper) among others. Limerick lost Cian O'Neill, I believe Galway were short some lads as well. That rule is the most ridiculous thing that the GAA have ever introduced, which is saying something, and hopefully common sense will prevail this year, but Wexford weren't victimised by it last year more than anyone else- twas just another game in our 'could have won' category.

I always feel in Wexford that we are too late to get with the times. Introducing a strength and conditioning programme now is a bit like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic- we are already playing catch-up. It isn't necessarily about height either as for all the talk about Jacko, McGuckin is probably our best fielder on the half-forward line and would have better work-rate. It was mentioned on the Wexford Hurling podcast this week that Collins from Galway and Drennan from Kilkenny have both gained a few KGs in the last six months. I think we put too much stock in lads getting on development squads, which become too large- chaps outside the best 24 happy enough to get the gear, the training in the COE but maybe aren't doing enough actual hurling and are denied access to their clubs as the county manager is autocratic. We were too quick to abandon the combined schools programme.

On the field, and it was referred to in this week's match report in the paper, we are still far too one dimensional in our stick passing, especially when it comes to Mac. How many times do you see Limerick launch aimless balls on top of Flanagan, who'd get the same attention as Mac? Never happens, because virtually every ball is angled low, allowing Flanagan and Gillane to run onto it and do damage. I know they are the masters, but why not aspire to be like them? I know Kilkenny were probably accused of being too old-school in the latter Cody years, but at least their forwards were able to win their own ball aerially, probably because they have the basics spot on. I doubt they have bulky development squads there with more cones than the ice-cream shop down in Kilmore Quay.

On the free-taking issue, I would 100% accommodate Banville at this stage, and have the front six as: Chin-Dwyer-McGuckin- ROC-McDonald-Banville.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1502 - 09/02/2023 11:21:20    2457413

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Replying To Viking66:  "Watched the DCU SETUW game Banville was good generally on frees missed only 1 he should've got. Missed 1 other tough 1. Generally very good on them though. Got 2 nice points from play as well but was a bit light in the rucks and could improve his closing down etc. Only other criticism was he was too often marking space when Waterford had the ball. Thought Niall Murphy had a pretty good game at full back and wasn't really at fault for the 3 goals. Clancy came on in the second half and got a point and did OK Generally. Exciting game though not champagne hurling by any means. The other 8 or so Wexford lads on the 2 panels didn't play. I think DCU really missed Lawlor who might have made the difference for them."
Watched it too, taught Clancy did well when he came on and agree regards Banville and Murphy, killer for DCU losing Richie during the competition and Adrian Mullen for the whole thing as he got injured with Ballyhale. Sean Walsh from Cork was brillant for WIT/SETUW.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 09/02/2023 11:27:40    2457415

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We can talk about player development all we want - the talent is there

I was looking forward to seeing Kyle Scallan, Richie Lalor, Aj Redmond, Cian Molloy and Cian Byrne giving senior a right good rattle this year.

I know Richie is injured and Scallan has had a few measly minutes but what's the story with the others??

Yellow (Wexford) - Posts: 589 - 09/02/2023 11:38:52    2457418

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Replying To beano:  "One anomaly us as supporters must stop using as an excuse for last year is the fact we were down Pepper for the under-20s. Kilkenny were affected far worse than us, were missing Shine (who'd be further along his development than Pepper) among others. Limerick lost Cian O'Neill, I believe Galway were short some lads as well. That rule is the most ridiculous thing that the GAA have ever introduced, which is saying something, and hopefully common sense will prevail this year, but Wexford weren't victimised by it last year more than anyone else- twas just another game in our 'could have won' category.

I always feel in Wexford that we are too late to get with the times. Introducing a strength and conditioning programme now is a bit like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic- we are already playing catch-up. It isn't necessarily about height either as for all the talk about Jacko, McGuckin is probably our best fielder on the half-forward line and would have better work-rate. It was mentioned on the Wexford Hurling podcast this week that Collins from Galway and Drennan from Kilkenny have both gained a few KGs in the last six months. I think we put too much stock in lads getting on development squads, which become too large- chaps outside the best 24 happy enough to get the gear, the training in the COE but maybe aren't doing enough actual hurling and are denied access to their clubs as the county manager is autocratic. We were too quick to abandon the combined schools programme.

On the field, and it was referred to in this week's match report in the paper, we are still far too one dimensional in our stick passing, especially when it comes to Mac. How many times do you see Limerick launch aimless balls on top of Flanagan, who'd get the same attention as Mac? Never happens, because virtually every ball is angled low, allowing Flanagan and Gillane to run onto it and do damage. I know they are the masters, but why not aspire to be like them? I know Kilkenny were probably accused of being too old-school in the latter Cody years, but at least their forwards were able to win their own ball aerially, probably because they have the basics spot on. I doubt they have bulky development squads there with more cones than the ice-cream shop down in Kilmore Quay.

On the free-taking issue, I would 100% accommodate Banville at this stage, and have the front six as: Chin-Dwyer-McGuckin- ROC-McDonald-Banville."
On the free taking can you think of any championship game Chin has had a bad day on them since 2019, I can only think of 1 which is the game in Salthill that year when both teams hit around 15 wides, I think this commentary going around podcasts etc. this week is harsh on him regards freetaking, he struggled on them in 2018 when he took them 1st but has improved drastically since then, I'd worry about it alright if he's not on the field as what happened against Dublin and Galway last year.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 09/02/2023 12:02:02    2457427

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Replying To Yellow:  "We can talk about player development all we want - the talent is there

I was looking forward to seeing Kyle Scallan, Richie Lalor, Aj Redmond, Cian Molloy and Cian Byrne giving senior a right good rattle this year.

I know Richie is injured and Scallan has had a few measly minutes but what's the story with the others??"
Its a real pity Richie Lawlor is out for the league. Would have been exciting to see how he developed over the next few weeks. I am surprised Scallan hasnt featured I thought he has the size and hurling to compete at this level. I think AJ was let go from the panel last week but could be wrong. Cian Molloy by all accounts doesnt want to commit which is fair enough. As regards Cian Byrne not sure what the story is there or if he was even involved this year

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 09/02/2023 12:34:30    2457436

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "On the free taking can you think of any championship game Chin has had a bad day on them since 2019, I can only think of 1 which is the game in Salthill that year when both teams hit around 15 wides, I think this commentary going around podcasts etc. this week is harsh on him regards freetaking, he struggled on them in 2018 when he took them 1st but has improved drastically since then, I'd worry about it alright if he's not on the field as what happened against Dublin and Galway last year."
Chin is our talisman. We need him back fully fit we are a much poorer team without him and Rory. I agree with previous posters when Rory and Lee arent on the field we are predictable and Mac gets crowded out

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 09/02/2023 12:36:58    2457437

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "On the free taking can you think of any championship game Chin has had a bad day on them since 2019, I can only think of 1 which is the game in Salthill that year when both teams hit around 15 wides, I think this commentary going around podcasts etc. this week is harsh on him regards freetaking, he struggled on them in 2018 when he took them 1st but has improved drastically since then, I'd worry about it alright if he's not on the field as what happened against Dublin and Galway last year."
Well yeah Chin is the best we have, but no harm giving Banville as much minutes as possible and having him on frees in Chin's absence, especially since the latter seems to be picking up injuries more frequently lately.

I would appalled if the free-taking issue emerged again in championship in the event of a Chin absence simply because we didn't do any prep work to legislate for it.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1502 - 09/02/2023 13:16:09    2457446

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think as regards 10-15 Mogie is still one of our best players. Oisin Foley did well last year too. Dwyer and Dunbar have improved alot. And do we carry Banville as a freetaker?
Starting front 6-
ROC,
Chin,
Mac,
Mogie,
O Foley,
Then 1 of Dunbar, Dwyer, Banville, Jacko, Flood the other 4 as replacements. Replacements Hearne, Joe OC if he gets back up to speed, Lawlor if he returns in time, Higgins maybe.
Midfield-
2 of Dee, Kevin Foley and Mcguckin depending on form. Maybe Lawlor, Joe O'Connor or Dunbar and/or as replacements if not coming on in the forwards .
I'd be inclined to leave Damien Reck where he is as he gets through alot of good defensive work when not gone forward, eg that goalie clearance in Nowlan Park!
If everyone is fully fit we have good options, bearing in mind we have seen very little if anything, of 4 of the 5 who I'd be assuming will be our starting forwards come championship, so far this season."
Forgot Joe Coleman in this post who looked alot trimmer in the challenge game against Waterford, can catch a high ball, takes scores well and is excellent at frees.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16685 - 09/02/2023 13:34:18    2457452

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Replying To beano:  "Well yeah Chin is the best we have, but no harm giving Banville as much minutes as possible and having him on frees in Chin's absence, especially since the latter seems to be picking up injuries more frequently lately.

I would appalled if the free-taking issue emerged again in championship in the event of a Chin absence simply because we didn't do any prep work to legislate for it."
I agree that I would start Banville on Sunday especially now his Fitzgibbon commitments are finished,

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 09/02/2023 13:37:22    2457454

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Replying To Yellow:  "We can talk about player development all we want - the talent is there

I was looking forward to seeing Kyle Scallan, Richie Lalor, Aj Redmond, Cian Molloy and Cian Byrne giving senior a right good rattle this year.

I know Richie is injured and Scallan has had a few measly minutes but what's the story with the others??"
AJ apparently dropped out not sure why. Cian Byrne was hurling Fitzgibbon for Mary I and came on during the challenge match against Waterford but got sent off shortly after. Don't think Cian Molloy was on the panel for whatever reason.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16685 - 09/02/2023 13:38:56    2457455

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "On the free taking can you think of any championship game Chin has had a bad day on them since 2019, I can only think of 1 which is the game in Salthill that year when both teams hit around 15 wides, I think this commentary going around podcasts etc. this week is harsh on him regards freetaking, he struggled on them in 2018 when he took them 1st but has improved drastically since then, I'd worry about it alright if he's not on the field as what happened against Dublin and Galway last year."
That's the big worry with only one freetaker.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16685 - 09/02/2023 13:39:48    2457458

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Replying To beano:  "One anomaly us as supporters must stop using as an excuse for last year is the fact we were down Pepper for the under-20s. Kilkenny were affected far worse than us, were missing Shine (who'd be further along his development than Pepper) among others. Limerick lost Cian O'Neill, I believe Galway were short some lads as well. That rule is the most ridiculous thing that the GAA have ever introduced, which is saying something, and hopefully common sense will prevail this year, but Wexford weren't victimised by it last year more than anyone else- twas just another game in our 'could have won' category.

I always feel in Wexford that we are too late to get with the times. Introducing a strength and conditioning programme now is a bit like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic- we are already playing catch-up. It isn't necessarily about height either as for all the talk about Jacko, McGuckin is probably our best fielder on the half-forward line and would have better work-rate. It was mentioned on the Wexford Hurling podcast this week that Collins from Galway and Drennan from Kilkenny have both gained a few KGs in the last six months. I think we put too much stock in lads getting on development squads, which become too large- chaps outside the best 24 happy enough to get the gear, the training in the COE but maybe aren't doing enough actual hurling and are denied access to their clubs as the county manager is autocratic. We were too quick to abandon the combined schools programme.

On the field, and it was referred to in this week's match report in the paper, we are still far too one dimensional in our stick passing, especially when it comes to Mac. How many times do you see Limerick launch aimless balls on top of Flanagan, who'd get the same attention as Mac? Never happens, because virtually every ball is angled low, allowing Flanagan and Gillane to run onto it and do damage. I know they are the masters, but why not aspire to be like them? I know Kilkenny were probably accused of being too old-school in the latter Cody years, but at least their forwards were able to win their own ball aerially, probably because they have the basics spot on. I doubt they have bulky development squads there with more cones than the ice-cream shop down in Kilmore Quay.

On the free-taking issue, I would 100% accommodate Banville at this stage, and have the front six as: Chin-Dwyer-McGuckin- ROC-McDonald-Banville."
Agree about the combined schools Beano.
Shine and Collins are potential hurling superstars. Drennan is good but not in the same league as the other 2. He's bigger and more physically developed for Senior intercounty is all.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16685 - 09/02/2023 13:42:35    2457463

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Replying To Afinestick:  "Its a real pity Richie Lawlor is out for the league. Would have been exciting to see how he developed over the next few weeks. I am surprised Scallan hasnt featured I thought he has the size and hurling to compete at this level. I think AJ was let go from the panel last week but could be wrong. Cian Molloy by all accounts doesnt want to commit which is fair enough. As regards Cian Byrne not sure what the story is there or if he was even involved this year"
Cian Byrne of Fethard is still u20 this year, the minors of 2019 are mentioned alot here but in the long term the team the year after could end up having as many on the senior panel, that team only played 1 game a week before xmas as that championship was straight knockout with Covid effecting the calender. They'll be the bulk of the u20 team this year in all likelihood, Byrne was also playing club football til about a month ago so probably missed out a bit in terms of pre season training,

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 09/02/2023 13:44:25    2457465

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Replying To Viking66:  "That's the big worry with only one freetaker."
I'd agree Jack and Rory O'Connor are hit and miss on them to be honest, Banville and Chin seem to be the 2 most reliable in the panel.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 09/02/2023 13:45:31    2457466

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Replying To beano:  "Well yeah Chin is the best we have, but no harm giving Banville as much minutes as possible and having him on frees in Chin's absence, especially since the latter seems to be picking up injuries more frequently lately.

I would appalled if the free-taking issue emerged again in championship in the event of a Chin absence simply because we didn't do any prep work to legislate for it."
Saying 'Well yeah Chin is the best we have' is a little bit demeaning to him in my opinion, I know I'm going back here a bit but our last 3 championship games in 2019 if you remember Kilkenny draw in the park, leinster final, all ireland semi final he got 29 frees out of 30 in those 3 games and the 1 he didn't dropped short rather than went wide, as I said he was poor on them around 2018 when to took them over from Guiney but he's become fairly reliable since then, his poor days on them have tended to be more in the league or walsh cup.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 09/02/2023 14:13:00    2457473

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "I'd agree Jack and Rory O'Connor are hit and miss on them to be honest, Banville and Chin seem to be the 2 most reliable in the panel."
Joe Coleman probably the most reliable on the panel

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16685 - 09/02/2023 14:57:04    2457484

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Saying 'Well yeah Chin is the best we have' is a little bit demeaning to him in my opinion, I know I'm going back here a bit but our last 3 championship games in 2019 if you remember Kilkenny draw in the park, leinster final, all ireland semi final he got 29 frees out of 30 in those 3 games and the 1 he didn't dropped short rather than went wide, as I said he was poor on them around 2018 when to took them over from Guiney but he's become fairly reliable since then, his poor days on them have tended to be more in the league or walsh cup."
It wasn't intended to be demeaning, and apologies if it came across that way.

I do rate Chin highly on frees, and as you said he has shown nerves of steel over big ones in recent times, but we do need an alternative in the off-chance he is having an off-day or isn't available for any reason. And none of the more experienced lads are consistent enough of them, which is why I would accommodate Banville somewhere from here on out.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1502 - 09/02/2023 15:06:55    2457486

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