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Wexford Intercounty Hurling 2023

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "1 last point on Saturday wouldn't be surprised if Fitzgibbon was a factor in Ross Banville not playing, in the last month he started 2 walsh cup games, came on at HT in the other, last 2 midweeks played for DCU, came on as a sub in the challenge game vs Waterford inbetween those 2 Fitzgibbon games and playing Fitizgibbon QF tomorrow night. None of the starting team from the game last Saturday are involved in 3rd level this year."
He looked shook up leaving the pitch against Offaly. He might still be carrying a bit of a knock. He didn't play much of the challenge game against Waterford either.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12057 - 07/02/2023 13:44:13    2457038

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "Very good point on the half back line, very same thing happened when Dublin hammered us in the Walsh Cup last year."
I'm not sure why we keep playing lads out of position at wingback. Simon plays cornerback for his club and previously for the county side. Flood was always a forward underage and still is for his club. Conor Foley plays midfield for his club although he played as a fullback for the u20s probably on account of his size.
At least Ian Carty played as a halfback intercounty underage. And still plays at halfback for his club. As do Damien Reck and MOH.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12057 - 07/02/2023 14:07:38    2457055

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Replying To Viking66:  "It's the main issue I'd have with Jacko at intercounty though. He doesn't bomb anywhere. Not sure why but he always looks alot more in the game, or maybe up for the game, when he plays for the Martins. Our problem with the halfback line against Galway wasn't their ability to bomb forwards. It was their ability to defend properly."
If there's no treat of a relegation play off I wouldn't be against trying Jacko wing back against Clare, Cork or Limerick, its 1 area I'd be concerned about in that at this point its more likely than not we won't have Paudie Foley come championship add in Cian Molloy doesn't seem to have the apatite to be involved based on some comments here, I taught he would have the tools to make an impression like Richie Lawlor did before his injury.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1752 - 07/02/2023 14:27:07    2457061

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Replying To Viking66:  "I'm not sure why we keep playing lads out of position at wingback. Simon plays cornerback for his club and previously for the county side. Flood was always a forward underage and still is for his club. Conor Foley plays midfield for his club although he played as a fullback for the u20s probably on account of his size.
At least Ian Carty played as a halfback intercounty underage. And still plays at halfback for his club. As do Damien Reck and MOH."
Nonsense. The needs of a certain club in a certain position at club level could be totally different to what is needed at intercounty level.

To follow your logic Damien Fitzhenry wouldnt have played in goal for Wexford.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 07/02/2023 14:51:42    2457072

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Nonsense. The needs of a certain club in a certain position at club level could be totally different to what is needed at intercounty level.

To follow your logic Damien Fitzhenry wouldnt have played in goal for Wexford."
Or Eoin Murphy for Kilkenny. Fact remains a lad that's always played as a forward is likely to be less good at tackling and defensive positional play than a lad who has always played as a back. Just as a lad that's always played as a back is likely to be less good at shooting than a lad that's always played as a forward. Of course all forwards need to be able to tackle and block in the modern game of short puckouts etc and all backs these days seem to be able to score the odd point. Starting positions certainly do seem to matter less.
Anyway getting back to the original point were you happy with our defensive shape, and half backs especially, against Galway then?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12057 - 07/02/2023 15:41:49    2457090

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League is a dead duck these days lads. Last year proved it!

We have about 19 hurlers who can play Inter-County Championship hurling and hold their own, the rest of the panel cannot compete at that level yet.

The aim for the League for us should be to give lads like Conor Foley, Oisin Pepper, Corey Dunbar, etc 5 full games of league to see if they can step up to the level required for summer hurling and sprinkle in the likes of Chin ROC, MOH for a game or two to keep them ticking over and not worry in the slightest about results.

LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 409 - 07/02/2023 15:57:17    2457094

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Nonsense. The needs of a certain club in a certain position at club level could be totally different to what is needed at intercounty level.

To follow your logic Damien Fitzhenry wouldnt have played in goal for Wexford."
Sorry Onfor15 I misread your post. I agree 100% that a club will put its best players in the pivotal positions.
As regards Fitzhenry playing outfield for Duffry he was a great forward who was very good at shooting. If he hadn't been so exceptional in goal for Wexford, one of the best of all time from any county, he might have played as a forward for the county instead.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12057 - 07/02/2023 16:12:04    2457099

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Replying To Viking66:  "How do you propose we get lads up to Senior intercounty standard if we don't play them in games like last night? The whole point to last night and the other games this season is to develop more players than just the same 18 or 19 you talk about. Very few hurlers for any county come in these days at age 20 or 21 and hurl up a storm. They are the exceptions rather than the rule. New players have to be given games to see what it's all about and step up their own game. If after a period of games they are still off the pace and intensity required you could decide its not for them at that time, but if you keep playing with the same 18 or 19 lads you will never have any more than that.
There's no ring of all fur coat off this team we have very few stars and all of the lads are working very very hard. That's a completely unfair statement. We lacked physically big lads last night and we do in general in Wexford. We have to devise ways of overcoming this shortcoming. No pun intended! And I think from listening to Egans instructions to the players over the 5 games I've gone to this year he is trying different approaches to combat this which I won't go into on this forum. Not til after the championship season has finished anyway."
Why not start them then Viking? If you want to get them up to standard you have to start them somewhere, bringing players on when the game was lost is an insult to any player.
I get that Wexford have players to come back but the starting 15 had a ring of nothing new, you should be starting 3-4 new faces every year in every league game, unless you have nothing new to keep a squad turning over, otherwise players get complacent and that is the enemy of progress.
None of the problems with Wexford in the second half were new problems and they have been there since this team started senior hurling. Free taking has always been a major issue with this team and still has not been resolved. The inability to win ball in the forwards is another problem. Wexford's biggest weakness is the lack of a real target man of the Seamus Flanagan type and lack real dogs in the fight in the forward line. Nice hurlers, but you need both the battler and the finisher in every team and Wexford lack the battler.
Going to Wexford matches lacks real excitement, there is a huge lack of goalmouth action and pressure.
Looking at the Limerick Cork game, it was streets ahead of what Wexford and Galway had to offer. I don't buy the "don't show them your hand" jargon often talked about on here. Best way to sow a seed of doubt in a teams mind? Go out and beat them.
I will judge them on the year as a whole, but I have my doubts at the moment and not just this year I think the same issues have been there for a long time.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1138 - 07/02/2023 17:12:02    2457122

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Why not start them then Viking? If you want to get them up to standard you have to start them somewhere, bringing players on when the game was lost is an insult to any player.
I get that Wexford have players to come back but the starting 15 had a ring of nothing new, you should be starting 3-4 new faces every year in every league game, unless you have nothing new to keep a squad turning over, otherwise players get complacent and that is the enemy of progress.
None of the problems with Wexford in the second half were new problems and they have been there since this team started senior hurling. Free taking has always been a major issue with this team and still has not been resolved. The inability to win ball in the forwards is another problem. Wexford's biggest weakness is the lack of a real target man of the Seamus Flanagan type and lack real dogs in the fight in the forward line. Nice hurlers, but you need both the battler and the finisher in every team and Wexford lack the battler.
Going to Wexford matches lacks real excitement, there is a huge lack of goalmouth action and pressure.
Looking at the Limerick Cork game, it was streets ahead of what Wexford and Galway had to offer. I don't buy the "don't show them your hand" jargon often talked about on here. Best way to sow a seed of doubt in a teams mind? Go out and beat them.
I will judge them on the year as a whole, but I have my doubts at the moment and not just this year I think the same issues have been there for a long time."
He started Conor Foley, Hearne, Mcguckin, Dwyer and Dunbar whose average age is 22 and who between them probably have less than 5 championship starts if that. Presumably they are 5 of the newer lads you are talking about. When Mogie, who only rejoined the panel lately and tired, got replaced by Byrne Dunbar Galway had just taken a 1 point lead. When Kevin Foley and Mikie Dwyer were replaced by Doran and Higgins the lead was 3. The game was far from lost. Not sure where you are coming from with that part of your post.
As regards high fielding forwards of intercounty standard and size we just don't have them except Chin and maybe Jacko. If Chin plays Mac becomes more effective. Jacko is yet to have an outstanding game for Wexford that I've seen. Mcguckin is a better catcher of a high ball and he's only 22. We can't magic some up. Who do you think he should've picked that is a big forward?
I watched the Cork v Limerick game I recorded it it had an exciting finish OK. Though the first half there was very little pressure being put on the man with the ball. Yes it was a big game particularly for Cork as Limerick are the AI champions. We beat them by more than Cork the very same round of the League last year. We didn't celebrate like we won an AI. And it counted for nothing in the last 5 minutes against Clare in Semple.
About the only bit of your post that I'd agree with is the freetaking issue. Conor Foley takes them for his club in Intermediate games in front of a few hundred people. It would be a big ask to get him on them in front of 8000 plus people against Galway. Dee isn't great on them for the Anne's. Noone else started who takes them for their club. Banville has been excellent on them from underage upwards but wasn't on the pitch. Hopefully after the Fitzgibbon is over Banville can show enough in training to get League starts. And then hopefully shows enough in those starts to get Championship starts.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12057 - 07/02/2023 18:34:43    2457131

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Why not start them then Viking? If you want to get them up to standard you have to start them somewhere, bringing players on when the game was lost is an insult to any player.
I get that Wexford have players to come back but the starting 15 had a ring of nothing new, you should be starting 3-4 new faces every year in every league game, unless you have nothing new to keep a squad turning over, otherwise players get complacent and that is the enemy of progress.
None of the problems with Wexford in the second half were new problems and they have been there since this team started senior hurling. Free taking has always been a major issue with this team and still has not been resolved. The inability to win ball in the forwards is another problem. Wexford's biggest weakness is the lack of a real target man of the Seamus Flanagan type and lack real dogs in the fight in the forward line. Nice hurlers, but you need both the battler and the finisher in every team and Wexford lack the battler.
Going to Wexford matches lacks real excitement, there is a huge lack of goalmouth action and pressure.
Looking at the Limerick Cork game, it was streets ahead of what Wexford and Galway had to offer. I don't buy the "don't show them your hand" jargon often talked about on here. Best way to sow a seed of doubt in a teams mind? Go out and beat them.
I will judge them on the year as a whole, but I have my doubts at the moment and not just this year I think the same issues have been there for a long time."
In fairness on Saturday Lawlor in goal was injured so Fanning who did well after previous wobbles was always going to start, its only Devitt's 2nd season consistently making the matchday 26 so he's hardly an experienced regular, Conor Foley made his 1st start, I'd say only Hearne's 4th or 5th start in league or championship and its McGuckin's 2nd season. Richie Lawlor I'm told would have started if he was fit, 1st start of the year for McGovern and Kevin Foley so might have been a case of getting minutes into them. Of the subs all bar 1 (Byrne Dunbar, Jack Doran, David Clarke, Rory Higgins and Ian Carty ) are new enough to this level and it was Flood's 1st appearance of the year after illness. Hardly a case of the same old faces.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1752 - 07/02/2023 18:44:57    2457135

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Replying To Viking66:  "It's the main issue I'd have with Jacko at intercounty though. He doesn't bomb anywhere. Not sure why but he always looks alot more in the game, or maybe up for the game, when he plays for the Martins. Our problem with the halfback line against Galway wasn't their ability to bomb forwards. It was their ability to defend properly."
Why dont we try jacko in goal
He's been tried in every other position

Spidey1 (Wicklow) - Posts: 8 - 07/02/2023 20:53:32    2457160

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You know the setup as well as I do viking/terriblefootwork but you can't be calling Dunbar a new face now, he is around the panel for 3-4-5 years now? The others bar Foley who looks a good prospect are around a couple of years as well, not new faces.
You are right they need game time but the panel turnover in Wexford is less than most counties, most counties introduce a few new players in every league campaign and give them the start.
The game wasn't lost but Galway were well on top and Wexford were all at sea by then.
It just strikes me, as an outside view with a slight Wexford leaning due to living here, that things aren't as rosy as you pain them. If it is part of some grand plan to be bursting out of the traps come April-August, I will be the first to eat humble pie on this. I am not convinced but hope to be wrong.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1138 - 08/02/2023 10:24:38    2457187

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Replying To Spidey1:  "Why dont we try jacko in goal
He's been tried in every other position"
Yeah it's worrying that people here still view him as a viable option when he has had enough opportunities to nail-down a spot but hasn't done so yet. Body of evidence thus far points to him being an impact sub, but even at that, I'd favour bringing on speed against tiring opponents.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1423 - 08/02/2023 10:32:54    2457194

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Replying To beano:  "Yeah it's worrying that people here still view him as a viable option when he has had enough opportunities to nail-down a spot but hasn't done so yet. Body of evidence thus far points to him being an impact sub, but even at that, I'd favour bringing on speed against tiring opponents."
Yea your dead right. Its not like we need big strong forwards with the ability to gain primary possesion and score. We need more small nippy lads who get pushed around children and have zero impact.

Waltermitty2 (Wexford) - Posts: 261 - 08/02/2023 11:05:07    2457204

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Replying To Waltermitty2:  "Yea your dead right. Its not like we need big strong forwards with the ability to gain primary possesion and score. We need more small nippy lads who get pushed around children and have zero impact."
Fully agree we are lacking in size and Jacko is a certain starter for me

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 08/02/2023 11:13:59    2457209

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We will struggle this year come championship if we don't score goals .
Our shot selection and our accuracy leaves a lot to be desired and has been that way a long time .
We rarely score more than 20 points excluding goals in games where all the top teams consistently score 20 to 25 plus most games unless our efficiency in front of goal improves dramatically We will be in trouble.
Goals will win us games if not we will struggle. so we have to improve our goal threat be that Chin, Rory ,Richie lawlor or Mac who s goal return is less than impressive of late cant see many of other lads getting through on goal much ie. ahearn banville dunbar corey dunbar or pepper . I d like to see cian byrne tried out or luke Murphy from harriers not afraid to run at teams and brave too . I m sure Darragh is well aware of our frailties as is any other opposing manager so we really need to to be creative and try new things what do we have to lose cant be predictable all the time
If i was an opposing manager . I d concentrate on stopping good supply of ball ,crowd goal area and foul further out where our return from frees is found wanting most of the time. And rely on their own scoring prowess our return possibly 50% other teams possibly 60% plus if we can score goals we will be a different peospect maybe our confidence in our point takking will improve too right now I d say there is a fear in shooting fo most lads .
Someday we ll shoot the lights out if all goes our way with the possession and chances we create let's hope its in championship.
On the Galway game thought first half was good the missed opportunities and changes may have zapped confidence we ll never be as poor on frees again .
Davy s legacy left behind of not blooding enough players during his tenure is now hurting us may take a while to recover from it .

Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 183 - 08/02/2023 11:15:54    2457211

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "You know the setup as well as I do viking/terriblefootwork but you can't be calling Dunbar a new face now, he is around the panel for 3-4-5 years now? The others bar Foley who looks a good prospect are around a couple of years as well, not new faces.
You are right they need game time but the panel turnover in Wexford is less than most counties, most counties introduce a few new players in every league campaign and give them the start.
The game wasn't lost but Galway were well on top and Wexford were all at sea by then.
It just strikes me, as an outside view with a slight Wexford leaning due to living here, that things aren't as rosy as you pain them. If it is part of some grand plan to be bursting out of the traps come April-August, I will be the first to eat humble pie on this. I am not convinced but hope to be wrong."
Will you please point out where I called Dunbar a new face in the previous post? I can't find it myself. On your middle point most county goes with a mixed bag, Kilkenny had 3 or 4 debuts in Belfast but had plenty of experience around them in Huw Lawlor, Buckley, Wally & Padraig Walsh, Deegan, John Donnelly add in Mikey Butler, Cian Kenny etc. who were starting last year. Limerick had 7 championship regular starters vs Cork but of the lads were aren't Richie English, Aaron Costello, Barry Murphy, David Reidy & Oisin Reilly are mid or late 20s while Colin Coughlan and Richie English are in the 3rd and 2nd years on the panel respectively. Each manager has there own agenda's in terms of what they want to get out of the league. On your last point I'm not talking about some grand plan I'm just saying you can take league results with a certain pinch of salt. We won by 6 points in Salthill in the league last year that didn't matter a jot when we played them in the championship in Wexford Park, I think we're underdogs going to Salthill in April and weather we won, drew or lost last Saturday wouldn't have changed that, to put it in perspective for you of the the 4 semi finalists in last years league only 1 of those was in the All Ireland semi finals, how 2022 fared for Limerick and Waterford in terms of their league and championship campaigns says it all really.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1752 - 08/02/2023 11:21:42    2457212

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "You know the setup as well as I do viking/terriblefootwork but you can't be calling Dunbar a new face now, he is around the panel for 3-4-5 years now? The others bar Foley who looks a good prospect are around a couple of years as well, not new faces.
You are right they need game time but the panel turnover in Wexford is less than most counties, most counties introduce a few new players in every league campaign and give them the start.
The game wasn't lost but Galway were well on top and Wexford were all at sea by then.
It just strikes me, as an outside view with a slight Wexford leaning due to living here, that things aren't as rosy as you pain them. If it is part of some grand plan to be bursting out of the traps come April-August, I will be the first to eat humble pie on this. I am not convinced but hope to be wrong."
When I said new faces I meant exactly that. The lads who are around the panel but haven't had much gametime. Dunbar has had his share of injuries over the last few years so hardly any starts. Last year he and Dwyer were subs really. Devitt still needs alot more experience before you could consider him a seasoned senior intercounty starter. Hearne has never started a championship game that I can remember and in fact I cant remember him even coming on as a sub. Mcguckin was a sub last year too. These are the lads who need gametime to get up to being championship starters hopefully. Really they should've been getting starts 2 years ago but all 5 were probably 2 small as regards S and C. Mcguckin is still only 22 I think. If you look at the Galway team we played only a couple of the 20 lads who played were under 25. If we don't give these lads starts in the League they aren't going to improve to challenge for starting places come championship. There are very few 19-22 year olds with the natural size or S and C done for senior intercounty from any county.
Mogie and Foley also needed gametime as they are late back. Dee still looks off the pace too.
I agree I'd like to see Flood as a forward, Banville, Carty, Hughes, Higgins and Clarke get some League starts but we have only had one game so far! Conor Foley, Byrne Dunbar and Pepper are only 19. They will hopefully be playing for our u20s this year come championship tbh.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12057 - 08/02/2023 11:36:48    2457225

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "You know the setup as well as I do viking/terriblefootwork but you can't be calling Dunbar a new face now, he is around the panel for 3-4-5 years now? The others bar Foley who looks a good prospect are around a couple of years as well, not new faces.
You are right they need game time but the panel turnover in Wexford is less than most counties, most counties introduce a few new players in every league campaign and give them the start.
The game wasn't lost but Galway were well on top and Wexford were all at sea by then.
It just strikes me, as an outside view with a slight Wexford leaning due to living here, that things aren't as rosy as you pain them. If it is part of some grand plan to be bursting out of the traps come April-August, I will be the first to eat humble pie on this. I am not convinced but hope to be wrong."
I agree things aren't rosy I never said they were. But looking back to last year, 2021 and 2019 we need better subs to bring on in the big games like the Tipp game in Croke Park, the draw in Croke Park in 21 and Clare in Semple. So we must surely give the subs we have gametime to try improve them. As well as other newer younger players.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12057 - 08/02/2023 11:45:42    2457227

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Replying To Viking66:  "Sorry Onfor15 I misread your post. I agree 100% that a club will put its best players in the pivotal positions.
As regards Fitzhenry playing outfield for Duffry he was a great forward who was very good at shooting. If he hadn't been so exceptional in goal for Wexford, one of the best of all time from any county, he might have played as a forward for the county instead."
Most of the times I saw him playing outfield he was half back

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 08/02/2023 12:40:03    2457244

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