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Think the hurling has to be first every year . For several reasons. I love both but can see less playing dual if its week on Week changes or every 2 weeks change Almost everyone wants to win the hurling first well any of dual senior intermediate clubs imo .
Less games is possibly the solution how that will come about is anyone's guess not many viable solutions to date .
Maybe during the hurling championship a district competion where football orientated players could join together and play district league off against each other . Playing decent games . 4 team group with semi finals and final. Would take 5 weeks over the 8 .
Open to all footballers from senior to junior who are interested. Could play midweek if any if the footballers wanted to play hurling too at lower grades.
Might be good way of helping intercounty too as could be used as trials or training .
Or get list of players interested and divide up equally re talent and se how many squads if 20ish could be put together . Play in ferns .
Means lads playing football only are nt sitting down fir the 8weeks or attending less than ideal training sessions . Surely be better thsn not playing at all .
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 167 - 28/10/2022 13:13:41
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Replying To Pikeman96: " Replying To Viking66: "[quote=Pikeman96: "You might find that's just a half dozen or so who started for their first teams in both codes. But another five or six who'd often be among Gorey's starting 15 in senior hurling definitely played football for their second team. I don't know St. Martin's as well, but am guessing it might be something the same.
And either way, six players is still nearly half a team. We're not talking Kilmacud Crokes here, where I believe there's only one dual player on both their senior football and senior hurling teams." If we play alternate weeks do you not concede that gives both clubs an advantage over another club which has maybe 14 starting for their hurling team one week who will also start for their football team the next? Or a club like Oulart who will have a panel pretty much wholly focused on hurling even if a few line out in Junior B, or maybe A hopefully!, football every second week?"
Again take Gorey as an example. In an alternate week structure, of the 15 who might start for their senior hurlers one week, you could have six playing for their intermediate footballers the following week and another six playing for their intermediate 'A' team. So that makes 12 senior hurlers who are playing football the following week anyway.
I don't think the fact that six of them are playing football at a grade lower than the other six would confer Gorey with any great advantage over another senior hurling club which has 12 senior hurlers playing for their first football team. They'd still be playing football every second week and presumably still giving football the same attention during that time as their clubmates on their first football team.
If it was the case that a club had 12 or 14 on their first hurling team who only played hurling, and another 12 or 14 on their first football team who only played football, then yes, they'd have an advantage all right. But I don't believe any such club exists in Wexford. However, I stand to be corrected - please name one, if you can?"]A lad playing for your 2nd team ikely isn't going to go as hard as a lad playing in your 1st team in fairness.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11732 - 28/10/2022 13:21:18
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@Viking66 - not going to quote the whole post above as it's one of those that's starting to get messy, but that's some statement to make:
A lad playing for your 2nd team ikely isn't going to go as hard as a lad playing in your 1st team in fairness
Back in my own playing days, I played senior in one code, but only ever managed to make the club's junior team in the other. It didn't mean I slackened off in effort because I was "only" playing junior.
Even today, 12 of our first hurling team also play for our first football team. The other three play for the second football team. They don't make any less effort there, and I'd expect that if they did, they'd quickly be hauled off and accused of being a prima donna. "Oh look at you, big hurling man, thinking you're too good to make a proper effort here because you're not on the first football team as well......"
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2229 - 28/10/2022 13:43:45
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - not going to quote the whole post above as it's one of those that's starting to get messy, but that's some statement to make:
A lad playing for your 2nd team ikely isn't going to go as hard as a lad playing in your 1st team in fairness
Back in my own playing days, I played senior in one code, but only ever managed to make the club's junior team in the other. It didn't mean I slackened off in effort because I was "only" playing junior.
Even today, 12 of our first hurling team also play for our first football team. The other three play for the second football team. They don't make any less effort there, and I'd expect that if they did, they'd quickly be hauled off and accused of being a prima donna. "Oh look at you, big hurling man, thinking you're too good to make a proper effort here because you're not on the first football team as well......"" If you had a top lad on your 1st hurling team really putting the same effort into your football 2nd team every other week I'd be very surprised. Even if he didn't think he was trying any less hard I'm sure he would be subconsciously even if only to try to avoid injury affecting his hurling chances. Yet he certainly would with the current split season structure and that's surely good grounds to keep it! We played Gorey in the Intermediate football quarter final. 8 of their senior hurling team started the game. We had 14 lads start that game who started Intermediate Championship Hurling.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11732 - 28/10/2022 14:51:29
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - not going to quote the whole post above as it's one of those that's starting to get messy, but that's some statement to make:
A lad playing for your 2nd team ikely isn't going to go as hard as a lad playing in your 1st team in fairness
Back in my own playing days, I played senior in one code, but only ever managed to make the club's junior team in the other. It didn't mean I slackened off in effort because I was "only" playing junior.
Even today, 12 of our first hurling team also play for our first football team. The other three play for the second football team. They don't make any less effort there, and I'd expect that if they did, they'd quickly be hauled off and accused of being a prima donna. "Oh look at you, big hurling man, thinking you're too good to make a proper effort here because you're not on the first football team as well......"" Absolutely, ridiculous to just discount fellas efforts because they only play for the second team in the club.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1327 - 28/10/2022 18:26:14
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Replying To Pikeman96: "To go from 80-20 in favour of one thing to actually voting against that thing just eight or nine months later would definitely seem dramatic to me.
Choose another word if you like. Significant? Substantial? Remarkable? Whatever word you want to use, it would surely be quite the change." I'm not sure you're actually reading what I'm writing.
I'm not claiming clubs are going to vote for change at all, I'm claiming that the majority of club people I've spoke to recognise that if it's a split season the fairest thing would be that football goes first but will tell you straight out that they wouldn't vote that way because clubs vote for what's best for them, not what's actually fair.
Which is why the county board have been beating the drum trying to push for alternate weeks as they know that's clubs won't vote that way but the county board are trying to appeal to what's best for both codes.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1327 - 28/10/2022 18:32:28
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Replying To tearintom: " Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - not going to quote the whole post above as it's one of those that's starting to get messy, but that's some statement to make:
A lad playing for your 2nd team ikely isn't going to go as hard as a lad playing in your 1st team in fairness
Back in my own playing days, I played senior in one code, but only ever managed to make the club's junior team in the other. It didn't mean I slackened off in effort because I was "only" playing junior.
Even today, 12 of our first hurling team also play for our first football team. The other three play for the second football team. They don't make any less effort there, and I'd expect that if they did, they'd quickly be hauled off and accused of being a prima donna. "Oh look at you, big hurling man, thinking you're too good to make a proper effort here because you're not on the first football team as well......"" Absolutely, ridiculous to just discount fellas efforts because they only play for the second team in the club."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11732 - 29/10/2022 11:00:35
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Replying To tearintom: "I'm not sure you're actually reading what I'm writing.
I'm not claiming clubs are going to vote for change at all, I'm claiming that the majority of club people I've spoke to recognise that if it's a split season the fairest thing would be that football goes first but will tell you straight out that they wouldn't vote that way because clubs vote for what's best for them, not what's actually fair.
Which is why the county board have been beating the drum trying to push for alternate weeks as they know that's clubs won't vote that way but the county board are trying to appeal to what's best for both codes." It is obvious that the best thing for the general health of Gaelic Games in Co.Wexford is to return to alternate weeks.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 29/10/2022 11:16:01
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I'm not exactly sure how it would work and whether it is even a good idea but would anyone here support the addition of District teams into the Senior Club Hurling Championship (And maybe even football as well although I'm guessing there would be less interest across the board in that)?
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 214 - 29/10/2022 12:36:36
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Replying To Onfor15: "It is obvious that the best thing for the general health of Gaelic Games in Co.Wexford is to return to alternate weeks." It's obvious to me that the split season has raised the standard of both, and of hurling generally in the county especially. Clubs who previously had to divide their attention week on week between hurling and football are able to focus fully on sports which are, at the end of the day, as different from each other as they are from rounders, handball and athletics. If theere has to be a change in the interest of fairness then football and hurling should be alternated as to which goes first.
The argument that hurling should go first on account of the weather is obviously nonsense if the same people are proposing alternate weeks for football and hurling, as the latter stages of the hurling championship are going to be at the same time of year as they would be in a split season with hurling going second anyway.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11732 - 29/10/2022 13:33:10
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I'm not exactly sure how it would work and whether it is even a good idea but would anyone here support the addition of District teams into the Senior Club Hurling Championship (And maybe even football as well although I'm guessing there would be less interest across the board in that)?" Don't think it would be a runner due to dual players and players probably playing 2 games a weekend. Perfect example Ian Carty from Taghmon would be good enough for the Ross District team in both codes, don't know if 4 adult club teams for 1 player is feasible.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1673 - 29/10/2022 13:49:34
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "I'm not exactly sure how it would work and whether it is even a good idea but would anyone here support the addition of District teams into the Senior Club Hurling Championship (And maybe even football as well although I'm guessing there would be less interest across the board in that)?" District teams were feasible in the era of knockout championship but totally unworkable now.
Either way it's a club championship, not a district championship. How unfair would it have been if Ferns this year or Gorey in 2018 had a once in a lifetime group of players capable of winning the championship for first time ever only to be beaten by a team made up of the best 8/10 clubs.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 524 - 29/10/2022 14:14:42
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Don't think it would be a runner due to dual players and players probably playing 2 games a weekend. Perfect example Ian Carty from Taghmon would be good enough for the Ross District team in both codes, don't know if 4 adult club teams for 1 player is feasible." Yeah, I know they do it in Kerry and Cork but hurling isn't big enough in Kerry to cause problems and while Cork is a dual county, I'd say there's a much higher percentage of dual players in Wexford than Cork
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 214 - 29/10/2022 14:45:26
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Imagine this scenario where we keep the split seasons but alternate which code gets played 1st.
Average Club player Hurling Season over end of July 2023, then starts championship again 13 Months later in August 2024.
And vice versa the Year after.
It's too big a gap between Championships especially as our League is so weak.
Paull (Wexford) - Posts: 170 - 29/10/2022 15:41:27
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "Yeah, I know they do it in Kerry and Cork but hurling isn't big enough in Kerry to cause problems and while Cork is a dual county, I'd say there's a much higher percentage of dual players in Wexford than Cork" Absolutely hurling is actually a non-entity in some parts of west cork, similarly for football in some parts of east cork.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1673 - 29/10/2022 15:41:53
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Replying To Paull: "Imagine this scenario where we keep the split seasons but alternate which code gets played 1st.
Average Club player Hurling Season over end of July 2023, then starts championship again 13 Months later in August 2024.
And vice versa the Year after.
It's too big a gap between Championships especially as our League is so weak." Whatever is decided as regards the club championships the League has to be reorganised and improved. Promotion and relegation would be a good start. Maybe less teams in each division and a division final in each?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11732 - 29/10/2022 16:05:25
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - not going to quote the whole post above as it's one of those that's starting to get messy, but that's some statement to make:
A lad playing for your 2nd team ikely isn't going to go as hard as a lad playing in your 1st team in fairness
Back in my own playing days, I played senior in one code, but only ever managed to make the club's junior team in the other. It didn't mean I slackened off in effort because I was "only" playing junior.
Even today, 12 of our first hurling team also play for our first football team. The other three play for the second football team. They don't make any less effort there, and I'd expect that if they did, they'd quickly be hauled off and accused of being a prima donna. "Oh look at you, big hurling man, thinking you're too good to make a proper effort here because you're not on the first football team as well......"" If you had a top lad on your 1st hurling team really putting the same effort into your football 2nd team every other week I'd be very surprised. Even if he didn't think he was trying any less hard I'm sure he would be subconsciously even if only to try to avoid injury affecting his hurling chances. Yet he certainly would with the current split season structure and that's surely good grounds to keep it! We played Gorey in the Intermediate football quarter final. 8 of their senior hurling team started the game. We had 14 lads start that game who started Intermediate Championship Hurling."
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2229 - 29/10/2022 17:54:06
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Replying To tearintom: "I'm not sure you're actually reading what I'm writing.
I'm not claiming clubs are going to vote for change at all, I'm claiming that the majority of club people I've spoke to recognise that if it's a split season the fairest thing would be that football goes first but will tell you straight out that they wouldn't vote that way because clubs vote for what's best for them, not what's actually fair.
Which is why the county board have been beating the drum trying to push for alternate weeks as they know that's clubs won't vote that way but the county board are trying to appeal to what's best for both codes." In fairness to you, that's a different thing. And yes, definitely possible that clubs might feel one way in one regard, but vote a different way when mainly looking out for themselves.
Think "fairness" is a subjective term here anyway. For instance, you could argue that it would be fair for football to have a year or two of going first, since hurling has been first these past few years. You could equally argue it would be fair to go with whatever the majority vote is, even if it's for hurling first, year in and year out.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2229 - 29/10/2022 17:57:09
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Replying To Pikeman96: " Replying To Viking66: "[quote=Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - not going to quote the whole post above as it's one of those that's starting to get messy, but that's some statement to make:
A lad playing for your 2nd team ikely isn't going to go as hard as a lad playing in your 1st team in fairness
Back in my own playing days, I played senior in one code, but only ever managed to make the club's junior team in the other. It didn't mean I slackened off in effort because I was "only" playing junior.
Even today, 12 of our first hurling team also play for our first football team. The other three play for the second football team. They don't make any less effort there, and I'd expect that if they did, they'd quickly be hauled off and accused of being a prima donna. "Oh look at you, big hurling man, thinking you're too good to make a proper effort here because you're not on the first football team as well......"" If you had a top lad on your 1st hurling team really putting the same effort into your football 2nd team every other week I'd be very surprised. Even if he didn't think he was trying any less hard I'm sure he would be subconsciously even if only to try to avoid injury affecting his hurling chances. Yet he certainly would with the current split season structure and that's surely good grounds to keep it! We played Gorey in the Intermediate football quarter final. 8 of their senior hurling team started the game. We had 14 lads start that game who started Intermediate Championship Hurling."
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11732 - 29/10/2022 19:18:32
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Replying To Pikeman96: "In fairness to you, that's a different thing. And yes, definitely possible that clubs might feel one way in one regard, but vote a different way when mainly looking out for themselves.
Think "fairness" is a subjective term here anyway. For instance, you could argue that it would be fair for football to have a year or two of going first, since hurling has been first these past few years. You could equally argue it would be fair to go with whatever the majority vote is, even if it's for hurling first, year in and year out." True too. Its a tough one to sort out. If there's a split season fairest, as in fair to the game of football, would be to alternate which goes first. And as I said in a previous post going second won't make any difference as to when the hurling final is, as against alternate weeks all through. Either way the latter stages of the hurling championship will be happening at the end of the club season.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11732 - 29/10/2022 19:46:38
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