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Wexford Intercounty Hurling 2023

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Replying To Tiger1:  "The truth is lads leinster hurling was never as bad as it is now a very average kk team winning leinster and even though we can beat them why cant we step ip to the plate and win it ?Because simply we are not good enough and then you see what happens the Leinster champions in the ginsl different level again if we were in munster we probably wouldn't win a game.Psychologist might help but mot that much time and time again expectations have been high with this team only to get the usual result.It can't be injuries and bad luck every year lads time to be realistic."
An average Kilkenny team who have beaten the second best team in Munster for two years on the trot?

We know Limerick are the best in Ireland but Tipperary and Waterford are gone to the dogs in Munster altogether.

Munster is basically Cork, Clare and Limerick for the foreseeable future.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 784 - 08/09/2023 02:32:33    2503477

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Replying To Viking66:  "Galway haven't lost to a Munster team in the last couple of years except Limerick either."
Galway have won 9 of their last 11 games v Munster teams outside of Limerick, they've lost the last 4 games v Limerick (3 semi finals and 1 final). Their big block is Limerick and Kilkenny in games that actually matter, much the same as Clare. Think Limerick are a very clear number 1 and big gap but I think Kilkenny are clearly number 2. Like they've been in the last 2 finals, won Leinster and also were in league final this year. Like I don't think you could put Clare no.2, they beat Limerick in round Robin but knockout hurling is where you really judge a team and Kilkenny have definitely had their number. Find Galway and Clare pretty similar, there there abouts and nothing to show for it the last few years. Neither of them able to beat Kilkenny or Limerick in games that matter but both undefeated v both in round Robin phase, both topped groups both years too. All that being said, both have very different problems to Wexford atm, not getting over lines in provincal finals and getting to all Ireland finals. Wouldn't mind having those problems instead of trying to avoid going into Joe McDonagh all the same. Think Dublin were missing like 10 of the panel from year previous and most were huge players, think they'd a few wasted years under Mattie Kenny with a decent team, Donoghue did a decent job with the hand he was dealt, think with some of those lads back next year they couod make another step up and be better again, Wexford should be better too, I don't think we could possibly be worse next year and should get a bit of a bounce under Rossiter and hopefully they have a look at what's up with all the injuries, maybe have a look at what conditioning work we're doing or recovery work lads are doing because something is definitely wrong, it all seems to be muscle injuries lads are getting. It's the one area I think Wexford are very far behind in from looking in is the physical development, S&C, injury prevention and recovery and all the various parts under the athletic development umbrella all the way up.

Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 272 - 08/09/2023 09:55:38    2503489

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Dublin senior club hurling is a very very high standard.

No senior team in Tipp, Clare & Cork would beat Kilmacud Crokes now or Cuala a few years ago.

Na Fianna another super hurling team on the up.

Cork senior club hurling is septic, non contact high heels hurling where forwards shoot the lights out in high scoring matches."
Dublin club game is backed by the influx of outsiders who live to far away from home to be travelling for training each week. Also backed by huge money. Kilmacud sponsored by the Beacon Private Hospital, Cuala have a six figure sponsorship deal, Clubs in Wexford are lucky to get a set of jerseys sponsored.

hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1660 - 08/09/2023 10:05:49    2503491

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Dublin senior club hurling is a very very high standard.

No senior team in Tipp, Clare & Cork would beat Kilmacud Crokes now or Cuala a few years ago.

Na Fianna another super hurling team on the up.

Cork senior club hurling is septic, non contact high heels hurling where forwards shoot the lights out in high scoring matches."
Only 3 teams in Limerick and Waterford would likely be favourites against Crokes this year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13050 - 08/09/2023 10:21:00    2503497

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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin:  "Galway have won 9 of their last 11 games v Munster teams outside of Limerick, they've lost the last 4 games v Limerick (3 semi finals and 1 final). Their big block is Limerick and Kilkenny in games that actually matter, much the same as Clare. Think Limerick are a very clear number 1 and big gap but I think Kilkenny are clearly number 2. Like they've been in the last 2 finals, won Leinster and also were in league final this year. Like I don't think you could put Clare no.2, they beat Limerick in round Robin but knockout hurling is where you really judge a team and Kilkenny have definitely had their number. Find Galway and Clare pretty similar, there there abouts and nothing to show for it the last few years. Neither of them able to beat Kilkenny or Limerick in games that matter but both undefeated v both in round Robin phase, both topped groups both years too. All that being said, both have very different problems to Wexford atm, not getting over lines in provincal finals and getting to all Ireland finals. Wouldn't mind having those problems instead of trying to avoid going into Joe McDonagh all the same. Think Dublin were missing like 10 of the panel from year previous and most were huge players, think they'd a few wasted years under Mattie Kenny with a decent team, Donoghue did a decent job with the hand he was dealt, think with some of those lads back next year they couod make another step up and be better again, Wexford should be better too, I don't think we could possibly be worse next year and should get a bit of a bounce under Rossiter and hopefully they have a look at what's up with all the injuries, maybe have a look at what conditioning work we're doing or recovery work lads are doing because something is definitely wrong, it all seems to be muscle injuries lads are getting. It's the one area I think Wexford are very far behind in from looking in is the physical development, S&C, injury prevention and recovery and all the various parts under the athletic development umbrella all the way up."
How do you mean avoid going into the Joe Mac all the time? Wexford only had that problem this year and have won Leinster more recently than Galway. Agree 100% with your last paragraph btw. If Chin, Reck and Carty had been fit to play in Salthill, and Ryan and O Hanlon had been fully fit the game would've been very close. Our halfback line that day was effectively Shane Reck, Simon Donohue and Conor Foley. Foley is a good prospect but has alot to learn about defending tbh, and the other 2 are cornerbacks. In the last 5 seasons while we haven't beaten Galway the only game we lost to Galway was the covid season where we never got going at all, except this year in Salthill. In 2019 we should've won and in 2022 we would've won if the game had gone on another 5 minutes. We only hurled for the last 20 minutes in that game.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13050 - 08/09/2023 10:30:18    2503498

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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin:  "Galway have won 9 of their last 11 games v Munster teams outside of Limerick, they've lost the last 4 games v Limerick (3 semi finals and 1 final). Their big block is Limerick and Kilkenny in games that actually matter, much the same as Clare. Think Limerick are a very clear number 1 and big gap but I think Kilkenny are clearly number 2. Like they've been in the last 2 finals, won Leinster and also were in league final this year. Like I don't think you could put Clare no.2, they beat Limerick in round Robin but knockout hurling is where you really judge a team and Kilkenny have definitely had their number. Find Galway and Clare pretty similar, there there abouts and nothing to show for it the last few years. Neither of them able to beat Kilkenny or Limerick in games that matter but both undefeated v both in round Robin phase, both topped groups both years too. All that being said, both have very different problems to Wexford atm, not getting over lines in provincal finals and getting to all Ireland finals. Wouldn't mind having those problems instead of trying to avoid going into Joe McDonagh all the same. Think Dublin were missing like 10 of the panel from year previous and most were huge players, think they'd a few wasted years under Mattie Kenny with a decent team, Donoghue did a decent job with the hand he was dealt, think with some of those lads back next year they couod make another step up and be better again, Wexford should be better too, I don't think we could possibly be worse next year and should get a bit of a bounce under Rossiter and hopefully they have a look at what's up with all the injuries, maybe have a look at what conditioning work we're doing or recovery work lads are doing because something is definitely wrong, it all seems to be muscle injuries lads are getting. It's the one area I think Wexford are very far behind in from looking in is the physical development, S&C, injury prevention and recovery and all the various parts under the athletic development umbrella all the way up."
Injuries last year were a killer but I think it`s a combination of bad luck and maybe an aging group. It was listed somewhere previously but from memory the main players were

Rory- Knee injury from 2022 cost him 9 months
Matthew - Groin and then twisted ankle in first game back
Chin- Shoulder
Damien Reck- hurt the bone in hos foot
Liam Ryan- Hand injury of some sort
Richie Lawlor- Broken metatarsal
Shane Reck -Hamstring

Others I can`t remember

wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 164 - 08/09/2023 11:13:24    2503502

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "How were Dublin robbed in the 2018 game?"
Is that the game where Harry Kehoe and Rory got 2 late points? Not robbery in my book either, I think it was 50-50 up till the death? Is that the right game?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1768 - 08/09/2023 11:15:05    2503503

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Replying To Past hurler:  "Dublin senior club hurling is a very very high standard.

No senior team in Tipp, Clare & Cork would beat Kilmacud Crokes now or Cuala a few years ago.

Na Fianna another super hurling team on the up.

Cork senior club hurling is septic, non contact high heels hurling where forwards shoot the lights out in high scoring matches."
Dublin senior club hurling is not a "very very high standard". I trained with a Dublin club for 2 years albeit a few years back and can tell you it is not a very high standard.
Don't let the high value sponsors on the jerseys fool you. They have 2 top teams and no more.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1768 - 08/09/2023 11:29:13    2503505

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Replying To wexfordwin:  "Injuries last year were a killer but I think it`s a combination of bad luck and maybe an aging group. It was listed somewhere previously but from memory the main players were

Rory- Knee injury from 2022 cost him 9 months
Matthew - Groin and then twisted ankle in first game back
Chin- Shoulder
Damien Reck- hurt the bone in hos foot
Liam Ryan- Hand injury of some sort
Richie Lawlor- Broken metatarsal
Shane Reck -Hamstring

Others I can`t remember"
Oisin Foley groin?, missed from January to April. Conor Devitt missed 6ish weeks. Ian Carty, back, missed 4 weeks. Rory Higgins missed a few weeks. Mac missed the Limerick game after getting injured against Cork, as did Mogie and Dee apart from Damien, Liam and Matthew that you already mentioned. Kyle Firman went off with a hamstring injury against Laois never to be seen again, while Ross Banville went off injured against Offaly although he was fit enough to play against Kilkenny. There were others I can't remember now.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13050 - 08/09/2023 12:39:48    2503515

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Dublin senior club hurling is not a "very very high standard". I trained with a Dublin club for 2 years albeit a few years back and can tell you it is not a very high standard.
Don't let the high value sponsors on the jerseys fool you. They have 2 top teams and no more."
Wexford club hurling must be the very bottom of the barrel if that's the case as a very very bang average club side like Naomh Barrog from Dublin knocked out Oulart the Ballagh in Leinster intermediate q-final in 2022.

The two clubs must be Cuala and Kilmacud you speak about.

Na Fianna and Ballyboden are very good also.

Past hurler (None) - Posts: 784 - 08/09/2023 13:03:36    2503518

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Replying To zinny:  "The problem with that statement are the facts. We have got to two Leinster finals in the past 10 years, if there wasn't much between us and the rest then we would be contesting more finals. We were on missed opportunity by Kilkenny from playing in the Joe Mc. I don't recall any of the other teams you have listed facing that prospect."
There's probably no point having this conversation with you to be honest.

10 years is an awful metric. Rory o Connor hadn't even done the junior cert then.

5 years is a better metric. In that time, played one won one.

Exceptionally unlucky in the other Davy years but competitive. Particularly the semi final with kk that went to extra time.

The two Egan years are grim. But drew with kk and Dublin, losing twice. Beat kk twice. The westmeath games are the difference which you surely acknowledge can be resolved with some minor adjustments.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2956 - 08/09/2023 13:13:48    2503522

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Replying To Tiger1:  "The truth is lads leinster hurling was never as bad as it is now a very average kk team winning leinster and even though we can beat them why cant we step ip to the plate and win it ?Because simply we are not good enough and then you see what happens the Leinster champions in the ginsl different level again if we were in munster we probably wouldn't win a game.Psychologist might help but mot that much time and time again expectations have been high with this team only to get the usual result.It can't be injuries and bad luck every year lads time to be realistic."
Very average KK team have still made 2 x AI finals in a row! Semi final for us would be a successful year. If anything expectations are too low in the county, need to start showing a lot more ambition.

Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 256 - 08/09/2023 14:12:57    2503530

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Replying To Viking66:  "How do you mean avoid going into the Joe Mac all the time? Wexford only had that problem this year and have won Leinster more recently than Galway. Agree 100% with your last paragraph btw. If Chin, Reck and Carty had been fit to play in Salthill, and Ryan and O Hanlon had been fully fit the game would've been very close. Our halfback line that day was effectively Shane Reck, Simon Donohue and Conor Foley. Foley is a good prospect but has alot to learn about defending tbh, and the other 2 are cornerbacks. In the last 5 seasons while we haven't beaten Galway the only game we lost to Galway was the covid season where we never got going at all, except this year in Salthill. In 2019 we should've won and in 2022 we would've won if the game had gone on another 5 minutes. We only hurled for the last 20 minutes in that game."
Didnt day all the time, said All the same. As in would prefer the complaints of not winning the all Ireland or getting to an all Ireland final as opposed to being one Puck of the ball awa from Joe Mc....
Still they've been in 3 all Ireland semi finals, beaten Cork, Tippx2 and been in 3 Leinster finals, won a very forgettable league title too but hardly count that, in that time period since we last won in 2019 so I wouldn't put too much on being more recent winners by 12 months on that. So 4 games, 2 losses and 2 draws...not a great record, Dublin one is shocking too, as well the Westmeath one. Kilkenny one is good but we can't just keep hoping to save the season where everything is the on line for us and maybe not so much for Kilkenny. Getting out of Leinster and winning a game v a munster team hasn't happened since 2016 either. Our over all record the last 6 years hasn't been great for the talent we did have bar the Kilkenny games, even in 2019 we only actually won 2 games, v Carlow in round Robin and Leinster final, drew 3 and lost semi to Tipp. We've a lot of draws or close games v big teams without actually ever getting a win over anyone of note bar Kilkenny (which in itself is mad when you think about what Kilkenny have done over last 5 years compared to us). I know you go on about getting in a top end sports physiologist a lot and I completely agree with you on that. I know the Leinster title was unbelievable but we never got that win over a top team beside Kilkenny, near misses v Galway, Clare and Tipp especially, if we'd got one of those it mightve helped big time, just getting someone to help build up that mental resilience, I'd love to see Caroline Currid in with Wexford or someone along those lines. There's other issues such as player development, s&c, skills etc but it was pity over those 6/7 years maybe could've been a difference in tight games we drew or lost.

Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin (Wexford) - Posts: 272 - 08/09/2023 14:36:36    2503532

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "Is that the game where Harry Kehoe and Rory got 2 late points? Not robbery in my book either, I think it was 50-50 up till the death? Is that the right game?"
Yeah, Rory got a point from inside our own half to put us up late on, think we won by 0-22 to 2-14. Think we were leading for most of the way but conceded a goal in either half and then butchered a few goal chances ourselves

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 332 - 08/09/2023 15:55:20    2503539

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Replying To Throughthemidfieldhewasstormin:  "Didnt day all the time, said All the same. As in would prefer the complaints of not winning the all Ireland or getting to an all Ireland final as opposed to being one Puck of the ball awa from Joe Mc....
Still they've been in 3 all Ireland semi finals, beaten Cork, Tippx2 and been in 3 Leinster finals, won a very forgettable league title too but hardly count that, in that time period since we last won in 2019 so I wouldn't put too much on being more recent winners by 12 months on that. So 4 games, 2 losses and 2 draws...not a great record, Dublin one is shocking too, as well the Westmeath one. Kilkenny one is good but we can't just keep hoping to save the season where everything is the on line for us and maybe not so much for Kilkenny. Getting out of Leinster and winning a game v a munster team hasn't happened since 2016 either. Our over all record the last 6 years hasn't been great for the talent we did have bar the Kilkenny games, even in 2019 we only actually won 2 games, v Carlow in round Robin and Leinster final, drew 3 and lost semi to Tipp. We've a lot of draws or close games v big teams without actually ever getting a win over anyone of note bar Kilkenny (which in itself is mad when you think about what Kilkenny have done over last 5 years compared to us). I know you go on about getting in a top end sports physiologist a lot and I completely agree with you on that. I know the Leinster title was unbelievable but we never got that win over a top team beside Kilkenny, near misses v Galway, Clare and Tipp especially, if we'd got one of those it mightve helped big time, just getting someone to help build up that mental resilience, I'd love to see Caroline Currid in with Wexford or someone along those lines. There's other issues such as player development, s&c, skills etc but it was pity over those 6/7 years maybe could've been a difference in tight games we drew or lost."
I agree 100% that most of our problems are mental/psychological, although last year particularly management dropped the ball as regards preparation ( physical as regards injuries but mental especially), set up, tactics, substitutions, and match ups. Whatever about losing a game to Westmeath, the manner of the defeat this year, the attitude of some of the players and management especially, was shocking. Other established hurling counties don't underestimate their opponents or take them for granted. And that would include supporters like us on this forum and the Wexford public at large. The support at the Westmeath game was every bit as pathetic as that 2nd half performance.
As regards Galway we just don't seem to be able to raise our game against you, same as Dublin. And the last 2 years we were missing some of our best players who were fit enough to play against Kilkenny afterwards. We need to prepare better to peak for the championship, and give fringe players the playing time to get better, so when we are missing Chin, Reck, MoH, Ryan or whoever, we still can perform as a team.
Reck and Ryan weren't fit to start against Dublin, yet both did. Shane Reck and MoH were marking the wrong men, they should've been switched pretty early in the game. I think alot of Shane Reck as player, but marking big men isn't what he is best at. Kilkenny don't make those mistakes against Galway and Dublin, so why do we? Why have we not learnt anything?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13050 - 08/09/2023 15:59:42    2503540

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "There's probably no point having this conversation with you to be honest.

10 years is an awful metric. Rory o Connor hadn't even done the junior cert then.

5 years is a better metric. In that time, played one won one.

Exceptionally unlucky in the other Davy years but competitive. Particularly the semi final with kk that went to extra time.

The two Egan years are grim. But drew with kk and Dublin, losing twice. Beat kk twice. The westmeath games are the difference which you surely acknowledge can be resolved with some minor adjustments."
You are the person who was on about the "old guard" what has the old guard ever won then, and you are talking about the same Davey and ROC who took him off in an all Ireland semi final
By the way 10 yeas two and five years 1 is the same. You have to get to finals to win them which we have shown consistently we do not do,

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1829 - 08/09/2023 18:43:34    2503553

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "Yeah, Rory got a point from inside our own half to put us up late on, think we won by 0-22 to 2-14. Think we were leading for most of the way but conceded a goal in either half and then butchered a few goal chances ourselves"
We concede late in the drawn game in 2019 also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13050 - 09/09/2023 09:31:47    2503573

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Replying To zinny:  "You are the person who was on about the "old guard" what has the old guard ever won then, and you are talking about the same Davey and ROC who took him off in an all Ireland semi final
By the way 10 yeas two and five years 1 is the same. You have to get to finals to win them which we have shown consistently we do not do,"
The ól guard has won one Leinster title, competed in one all Ireland semi.

The point I'm trying to make is we're capable of better. There is sufficient evidence to support this over the course of the last 5 years.

The reason I wouldn't consider 10 years is the panel has changed a lot more in that time.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2956 - 09/09/2023 10:02:10    2503576

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Replying To Viking66:  "We concede late in the drawn game in 2019 also."
I actually think we were a bit lucky in that one, went in level at HT but then found ourselves five points down without about fifteen minutes to go (And were fairly lacklustre) and then we got two goals out of nothing in the space of three minutes

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 332 - 09/09/2023 17:13:57    2503605

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An interesting article from a Tipp perspective on Wexford hurling. Killinan End very insightful reading usually.

https://www.nenaghguardian.ie/2023/09/10/killinan-end-wexford-doing-things-their-way/

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13050 - 11/09/2023 09:49:50    2503721

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