National Forum

Late County Finals - Split Season

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Sunday 4 December

Leinster club SFC final
The Downs (Westmeath) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 4.30pm

Leinster club SHC final
Ballyhale Shamrocks (Kilkenny) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 2.30pm

The Leinster Council are expecting 2 games in one day from any dual player."
Well, Sheehy has not started for Crokes so barring injury in the hurling will still be able to play some part if needed. As said on other thread, it is good decision and would have been unfair to change the football to another day to suit one player and one of the clubs. Thankfully, everyone seems satisfied.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 726 - 28/11/2022 21:42:12    2449027

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Sunday 4 December

Leinster club SFC final
The Downs (Westmeath) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 4.30pm

Leinster club SHC final
Ballyhale Shamrocks (Kilkenny) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 2.30pm

The Leinster Council are expecting 2 games in one day from any dual player."
Its not ideal. The lad in question is an impact sub for the footballers so will possibly have to play 75 odd minutes altogether. At least they have swapped the games around which should help him. And he might not have to come on for the footballers at all if the game is going KC's way. It would be a much bigger problem if KC were like many of the dual clubs down here who would have anything between 8 and 14 lads starting for the clubs hurlers and footballers. Up or down its nonsense to expect the AI series to be wrapped up before Xmas. The provincial championships started earlier this year than you proposed. In October. Yet KC still have their footballers and hurlers out on the same day. And even then there's no chance of getting the AI series completed before Xmas. The provincial series won't be finished until the weekend of the 10th December.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6116 - 28/11/2022 21:51:04    2449029

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Sunday 4 December

Leinster club SFC final
The Downs (Westmeath) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 4.30pm

Leinster club SHC final
Ballyhale Shamrocks (Kilkenny) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 2.30pm

The Leinster Council are expecting 2 games in one day from any dual player."
And you still haven't answered the question in my last post. Why should around 2200 clubs have to be told how many, or few, club championship games or weekends they are allowed in order to suit a handful of elite clubs?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6116 - 28/11/2022 21:53:09    2449030

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Sunday 4 December

Leinster club SFC final
The Downs (Westmeath) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 4.30pm

Leinster club SHC final
Ballyhale Shamrocks (Kilkenny) v Kilmacud Crokes (Dublin), Croke Park, 2.30pm

The Leinster Council are expecting 2 games in one day from any dual player."
I think the fact that you posted this just before 8 p.m. last night shows how out of touch you are.

Seems highly likely you didn't know there's just one dual player with the Crokes teams. Also, you didn't know that a compromise solution had already been reached by that time, to the satisfaction of all involved.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1211 - 29/11/2022 10:47:11    2449038

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Replying To Viking66:  "And you still haven't answered the question in my last post. Why should around 2200 clubs have to be told how many, or few, club championship games or weekends they are allowed in order to suit a handful of elite clubs?"
In short they don't. If a county cannot complete their club championship in the time for the provincial championship, simply decline the option of sending a representative to the provincial championship or send the county league winner.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6891 - 29/11/2022 16:50:46    2449073

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Replying To legendzxix:  "In short they don't. If a county cannot complete their club championship in the time for the provincial championship, simply decline the option of sending a representative to the provincial championship or send the county league winner."
Yes. Because it really is that simple. Roll eyes emoji.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1211 - 29/11/2022 16:56:42    2449075

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I think the fact that you posted this just before 8 p.m. last night shows how out of touch you are.

Seems highly likely you didn't know there's just one dual player with the Crokes teams. Also, you didn't know that a compromise solution had already been reached by that time, to the satisfaction of all involved."
You've missed my point. At provincial level, should it be accepted that dual clubs might have to play on the same weekend? If there can be agreement on that, the provincial championships can be played on a shorter timescale.

Weekend 1. Hurling Provincial Preliminary Round
Weekend 2. Hurling Provincial Quarter-finals and Football Provincial Preliminary Round.
Weekend 3. Hurling Provincial Semi-finals and Football Provincial Quarter-finals.
Weekend 4. Hurling Provincial Final and Football Provincial Semi-finals
Weekend 5. Football Provincial Final
Weekend 6. Hurling AI Semi-finals
Weekend 7. Football AI Semi-finals and Hurling AI Final
Weekend 8. Football AI Final

For All-Ireland finalists getting a bye to provincial semi-finals:
October
29. County Club Hurling Finals

November
05. County Club Football Finals
12. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals
19. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals, Hurling Finals
26. Provincial Club Football Finals

December
03. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals
10. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals, Football Semi-finals
17. All-Ireland Club Football Finals
Calendar year achieved. Enjoy Christmas!"

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6891 - 29/11/2022 17:15:52    2449077

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Replying To legendzxix:  "You've missed my point. At provincial level, should it be accepted that dual clubs might have to play on the same weekend? If there can be agreement on that, the provincial championships can be played on a shorter timescale.

Weekend 1. Hurling Provincial Preliminary Round
Weekend 2. Hurling Provincial Quarter-finals and Football Provincial Preliminary Round.
Weekend 3. Hurling Provincial Semi-finals and Football Provincial Quarter-finals.
Weekend 4. Hurling Provincial Final and Football Provincial Semi-finals
Weekend 5. Football Provincial Final
Weekend 6. Hurling AI Semi-finals
Weekend 7. Football AI Semi-finals and Hurling AI Final
Weekend 8. Football AI Final

For All-Ireland finalists getting a bye to provincial semi-finals:
October
29. County Club Hurling Finals

November
05. County Club Football Finals
12. Provincial Club Hurling Semi-finals
19. Provincial Club Football Semi-finals, Hurling Finals
26. Provincial Club Football Finals

December
03. All-Ireland Club Hurling Semi-finals
10. All-Ireland Club Hurling Finals, Football Semi-finals
17. All-Ireland Club Football Finals
Calendar year achieved. Enjoy Christmas!""
You still haven't answered several points there.
Firstly why the great need to finish the AI club championships by Xmas?
Secondly why should any club get an advantage over other clubs on account of how well their intercounty team does? And suppose 2 teams from the same province make the AI final?
Thirdly why is there the need to extend the intercounty calendar into August anyway?
Fourthly if any dual club with say 12 or more starting players on both their hurling and football teams as our club has, makes the provincial championships what then? Horeswood are in the Leinster Junior hurling final and if they had of beaten Fethard in the county Intermediate football final, which many expected them to, they might very well be in the Leinster Intermediate football final also, as Fethard are. Like ourselves most of their starting hurling team also start on their football team.
Fifthly in terms of player welfare you would be expecting a dual club who makes the AI series in both codes play flat to the mat more than once a week sometimes and at least once every week for at least 23 weeks in a row. These aren't professional athletes. The lads work or study during the week they don't get pampered in cryo tanks.
So in conclusion I'll ask you again- are you solely interested in intercounty and elite senior club action? A big man's man as it might be called up here? Best you remember the green green grass will soon go brown with no grassroots to support it!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6116 - 29/11/2022 19:13:33    2449087

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Replying To legendzxix:  "In short they don't. If a county cannot complete their club championship in the time for the provincial championship, simply decline the option of sending a representative to the provincial championship or send the county league winner."
Yes but who are you to set the time for the start of the provincial championships? Why are you on this crusade to finish the AI club series by Xmas?!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6116 - 29/11/2022 19:40:59    2449091

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Replying To Viking66:  "Yes but who are you to set the time for the start of the provincial championships? Why are you on this crusade to finish the AI club series by Xmas?!"
That was part of the new split season plan.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 507 - 30/11/2022 10:41:40    2449120

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "That was part of the new split season plan."
Yes but 2 things. Firstly as this year has shown even with the AI finals in July that hasn't been possible and clubs have been playing championship games pretty much week on week, and actually since June down here in Wexford.
And secondly if you are going to change when the intercounty season finishes by a month, Legendzxix is proposing having the finals in August, then that's going to make it even harder to achieve.
He or she has proposed reducing the number of club county championship games and clubs playing football and hurling games on the same weekend to achieve this goal. Both aren't fair on amateur club players and their clubs who remain true to the original ethos of the GAA of promoting and playing both games equally.
Bottom line is there are 2200 odd clubs and only 32 counties. And club Championships have a very important county phase to them which obviously intercounty Championships don't have. Therefore intercounty Championships shouldn't take anywhere near as long to run off as club ones.
I'm all for intercounty games don't get me wrong. I was going to them a long time before I ever went to see a club game. I'm personally very happy that county football and hurling teams are guaranteed more than the 1 game they were guaranteed back in the 90s when I started going. But as the intercounty setups have got more professional, in playing, managerial and promotional terms, I do feel the clubs have been getting more and more squeezed since the backdoor came in in the late 90s. And if we don't have a healthy club scene, which you would have to worry about as more and more clubs are struggling to field underage and even adult teams as the years have gone by, the general health of the whole organisation is going to suffer.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6116 - 30/11/2022 13:07:46    2449144

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