National Forum

Late County Finals - Split Season

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If county club league fixtures are to run in parallel to the intercounty championships, one could argue that the intercounty leagues could run in parallel to the All-Ireland club championships. The one problem however is that the Allianz Football League has been linked to the Championship.
The recent move to bring the All-Ireland club championships forward to December/January would have to be reversed. Linking the Allianz Football League to All-Ireland qualification would also have to be reversed, so that players can play for their clubs without affecting All-Ireland qualification through the Allianz Football League.
The problem here however is that the inter-county provincial championships would probably also have to be removed from the All-Ireland football championship. That way there could be promotion and relegation between the All-Ireland 16 and the Tailteann 16.
All other options are messy. If provincial finalists and the Tailteann winner are qualifying for the All-Ireland 16, the remaining 16/17 will have to qualify for 7 or 8 places.
I have previously suggested that the Top 50% in each province could qualify for the All-Ireland 16. 3 Munster, 3 Connacht, 4 Ulster and 5 Leinster. The Tailteann winner from the previous year would be the 16th team. If the Tailteann winner qualify through their province, their province can be awarded the extra allocation.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6899 - 03/12/2022 07:37:49    2449379

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Replying To Whammo86:  "
Replying To brianb:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "[quote=Whammo86:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "Just wondering about this line in an earlier post (and sorry, have lost track of where it came from originally!) -
Counties able to start when their county teams are both out and not before 1st August.

If a county's inter-county teams are finished in their championships by let's say the middle of June (it could happen), why stop that county from starting its club championships in late June and running through July, instead of making them wait until 1st August?"
So that club players can plan holidays.

Start of July is a good time to allow a holiday break and then allow 2 weeks of training ahead of championships kicking off.

April, May, June for club leagues."
Okay, I see where you're coming from.

But we can't have it every way. Several here are saying club players should be able to play in the best weather months of July and August.

Holding up every club championship in the country for one of those months, just so some lads won't have to miss a match if they want to go on holiday, isn't conducive to that."]The staring demand for the split season was certainty of fixtures. Tieing the start of the County Championships to when the county exists the All Ireland was the biggest problem to fix. The way this is developing all we've done is shift the year around without fixing any problems.

Tha main problem I see with the GAA calendar is that theres a long tail of Club All Ireland fixtures where some players get to extend their season into December where as others finished up back in August. How can we think this is the best way to go?

One thing I'd put out there for consideration is why we roll straight from county champioships into the provincial and All Ireland? By winnig your championship in 2022 you could qualify for the Provincial & All Ireland championships to be played in 2023 (like champions leage in Soccer). Such a championship could be played alongside the following years calender with certainty of fixtures for all."]I think that we've gone from no certainty of fixtures to too much certainty of fixtures.

There was a duel problem of the qualifiers where depending on results teams could be playing on different weekends and the season going to September it meant that championship had to be scheduled around intercounty activities but there was no notice for players of when that would be.

Some flexibility where club players know that they start championship on one of 3 weekends could be a decent compromise and would mean that potentially good Summer days for club action aren't going to waste needlessly or that we rush our Intercounty competitions.

Being able to know that in March to June or July that you can take a break and not miss championship would improve a lot of quality for life for club players.

I retired early as football and life got in the way of one another and just a little bit of more structure would've made a big difference for me. I'm sure others would be in a similar boat.

The full ability to know the schedule before the season starts is too inflexible in my book."]Flexibility is key. Dunloy qualified for the Ulster provincial series in both Hurling and Football this year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 03/12/2022 08:16:26    2449384

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Replying To Whammo86:  "
Replying To brianb:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "[quote=Whammo86:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "Just wondering about this line in an earlier post (and sorry, have lost track of where it came from originally!) -
Counties able to start when their county teams are both out and not before 1st August.

If a county's inter-county teams are finished in their championships by let's say the middle of June (it could happen), why stop that county from starting its club championships in late June and running through July, instead of making them wait until 1st August?"
So that club players can plan holidays.

Start of July is a good time to allow a holiday break and then allow 2 weeks of training ahead of championships kicking off.

April, May, June for club leagues."
Okay, I see where you're coming from.

But we can't have it every way. Several here are saying club players should be able to play in the best weather months of July and August.

Holding up every club championship in the country for one of those months, just so some lads won't have to miss a match if they want to go on holiday, isn't conducive to that."]The staring demand for the split season was certainty of fixtures. Tieing the start of the County Championships to when the county exists the All Ireland was the biggest problem to fix. The way this is developing all we've done is shift the year around without fixing any problems.

Tha main problem I see with the GAA calendar is that theres a long tail of Club All Ireland fixtures where some players get to extend their season into December where as others finished up back in August. How can we think this is the best way to go?

One thing I'd put out there for consideration is why we roll straight from county champioships into the provincial and All Ireland? By winnig your championship in 2022 you could qualify for the Provincial & All Ireland championships to be played in 2023 (like champions leage in Soccer). Such a championship could be played alongside the following years calender with certainty of fixtures for all."]I think that we've gone from no certainty of fixtures to too much certainty of fixtures.

There was a duel problem of the qualifiers where depending on results teams could be playing on different weekends and the season going to September it meant that championship had to be scheduled around intercounty activities but there was no notice for players of when that would be.

Some flexibility where club players know that they start championship on one of 3 weekends could be a decent compromise and would mean that potentially good Summer days for club action aren't going to waste needlessly or that we rush our Intercounty competitions.

Being able to know that in March to June or July that you can take a break and not miss championship would improve a lot of quality for life for club players.

I retired early as football and life got in the way of one another and just a little bit of more structure would've made a big difference for me. I'm sure others would be in a similar boat.

The full ability to know the schedule before the season starts is too inflexible in my book."]Flexibility is key. Dunloy qualified for the Ulster provincial series in both Hurling and Football this year.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 03/12/2022 08:16:36    2449385

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Replying To legendzxix:  "If county club league fixtures are to run in parallel to the intercounty championships, one could argue that the intercounty leagues could run in parallel to the All-Ireland club championships. The one problem however is that the Allianz Football League has been linked to the Championship.
The recent move to bring the All-Ireland club championships forward to December/January would have to be reversed. Linking the Allianz Football League to All-Ireland qualification would also have to be reversed, so that players can play for their clubs without affecting All-Ireland qualification through the Allianz Football League.
The problem here however is that the inter-county provincial championships would probably also have to be removed from the All-Ireland football championship. That way there could be promotion and relegation between the All-Ireland 16 and the Tailteann 16.
All other options are messy. If provincial finalists and the Tailteann winner are qualifying for the All-Ireland 16, the remaining 16/17 will have to qualify for 7 or 8 places.
I have previously suggested that the Top 50% in each province could qualify for the All-Ireland 16. 3 Munster, 3 Connacht, 4 Ulster and 5 Leinster. The Tailteann winner from the previous year would be the 16th team. If the Tailteann winner qualify through their province, their province can be awarded the extra allocation."
First up I agree the club provincial and AI championships should overlap the League. And they always have with no real problems.
The structure of the intercounty football is a mess. The League should be seperate anyway. But you can't split the 16s the way you are proposing either. That would be messy and unfair. The 5th best team in Ulster would be likely better than the 2nd and 3rd best Munster teams and nearly all the Leinster teams except Dublin.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 03/12/2022 12:27:35    2449404

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Replying To Viking66:  "First up I agree the club provincial and AI championships should overlap the League. And they always have with no real problems.
The structure of the intercounty football is a mess. The League should be seperate anyway. But you can't split the 16s the way you are proposing either. That would be messy and unfair. The 5th best team in Ulster would be likely better than the 2nd and 3rd best Munster teams and nearly all the Leinster teams except Dublin."
The inter-county football provincial championships are going to be played over 5 weekends. The provincial councils have accepted a shorter timescale. That's their contribution to a calendar year.
While it will be difficult for dual clubs, the provincial club and All-Ireland club series over 8 weekends is also a fair contribution to a calendar year.
It again contributes to more time for the likes of Wexford to complete the county club championships. Everyone has to contribute.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6899 - 03/12/2022 15:15:02    2449421

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Replying To Viking66:  "
Replying To Whammo86:  "[quote=brianb:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "[quote=Whammo86:  "[quote=Pikeman96:  "Just wondering about this line in an earlier post (and sorry, have lost track of where it came from originally!) -
Counties able to start when their county teams are both out and not before 1st August.

If a county's inter-county teams are finished in their championships by let's say the middle of June (it could happen), why stop that county from starting its club championships in late June and running through July, instead of making them wait until 1st August?"
So that club players can plan holidays.

Start of July is a good time to allow a holiday break and then allow 2 weeks of training ahead of championships kicking off.

April, May, June for club leagues."
Okay, I see where you're coming from.

But we can't have it every way. Several here are saying club players should be able to play in the best weather months of July and August.

Holding up every club championship in the country for one of those months, just so some lads won't have to miss a match if they want to go on holiday, isn't conducive to that."]The staring demand for the split season was certainty of fixtures. Tieing the start of the County Championships to when the county exists the All Ireland was the biggest problem to fix. The way this is developing all we've done is shift the year around without fixing any problems.

Tha main problem I see with the GAA calendar is that theres a long tail of Club All Ireland fixtures where some players get to extend their season into December where as others finished up back in August. How can we think this is the best way to go?

One thing I'd put out there for consideration is why we roll straight from county champioships into the provincial and All Ireland? By winnig your championship in 2022 you could qualify for the Provincial & All Ireland championships to be played in 2023 (like champions leage in Soccer). Such a championship could be played alongside the following years calender with certainty of fixtures for all."]I think that we've gone from no certainty of fixtures to too much certainty of fixtures.

There was a duel problem of the qualifiers where depending on results teams could be playing on different weekends and the season going to September it meant that championship had to be scheduled around intercounty activities but there was no notice for players of when that would be.

Some flexibility where club players know that they start championship on one of 3 weekends could be a decent compromise and would mean that potentially good Summer days for club action aren't going to waste needlessly or that we rush our Intercounty competitions.

Being able to know that in March to June or July that you can take a break and not miss championship would improve a lot of quality for life for club players.

I retired early as football and life got in the way of one another and just a little bit of more structure would've made a big difference for me. I'm sure others would be in a similar boat.

The full ability to know the schedule before the season starts is too inflexible in my book."]Flexibility is key. Dunloy qualified for the Ulster provincial series in both Hurling and Football this year."]That's why I like the Provincial club in the new year. Provincial councils will no the make up of the field at that stage and can schedule things accordingly.

If Dunloy are in both competitions maybe they have to start in January but it doesn't mean that every Provincial championship has to start that early.

When you have the competitions at year end for Leinster counties they need 11 weekends to play 4 football rounds, 3 hurling rounds and 2 All Ireland club rounds per code.

Again no flexibility.

The calendar is so tight it's impossible not to have a little more flexibility than is being designed at present.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3829 - 03/12/2022 16:03:34    2449431

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The inter-county football provincial championships are going to be played over 5 weekends. The provincial councils have accepted a shorter timescale. That's their contribution to a calendar year.
While it will be difficult for dual clubs, the provincial club and All-Ireland club series over 8 weekends is also a fair contribution to a calendar year.
It again contributes to more time for the likes of Wexford to complete the county club championships. Everyone has to contribute."
Why should clubs who are being true to ethos of the GAA be penalised and clubs that are only playing one code favoured? In any case the proposal I made does involve all the games being in a calendar year. The provincial and AI club championships should be run between January and March. Then there are enough weekends for them to be completed without any club having to play twice in a week in them. If you are so hung up on the calendar year thing you could say qualification for the 2024 provincial club championships will depend on a clubs position in the 2023 club county championships. And scrap the 2023 provincial and AI club championships.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 03/12/2022 16:24:06    2449436

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Replying To Viking66:  "Why should clubs who are being true to ethos of the GAA be penalised and clubs that are only playing one code favoured? In any case the proposal I made does involve all the games being in a calendar year. The provincial and AI club championships should be run between January and March. Then there are enough weekends for them to be completed without any club having to play twice in a week in them. If you are so hung up on the calendar year thing you could say qualification for the 2024 provincial club championships will depend on a clubs position in the 2023 club county championships. And scrap the 2023 provincial and AI club championships."
Are you saying clubs who only play either football or hurling are not being true to the ethos of the GAA? First time I've heard that. Shame on you Kilkenny .

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1389 - 03/12/2022 18:11:49    2449447

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Are you saying clubs who only play either football or hurling are not being true to the ethos of the GAA? First time I've heard that. Shame on you Kilkenny ."
Yep. Told any of my Kilkenny friends who belong to hurling only clubs the same on numerous occasions!!! Have very little else on them tbh lol!!!!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 03/12/2022 18:33:11    2449452

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Replying To Viking66:  "Yep. Told any of my Kilkenny friends who belong to hurling only clubs the same on numerous occasions!!! Have very little else on them tbh lol!!!!"
Apart from when they p#ssed on the gunpowder in 1798!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 03/12/2022 20:56:58    2449460

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Replying To Viking66:  "Why should clubs who are being true to ethos of the GAA be penalised and clubs that are only playing one code favoured? In any case the proposal I made does involve all the games being in a calendar year. The provincial and AI club championships should be run between January and March. Then there are enough weekends for them to be completed without any club having to play twice in a week in them. If you are so hung up on the calendar year thing you could say qualification for the 2024 provincial club championships will depend on a clubs position in the 2023 club county championships. And scrap the 2023 provincial and AI club championships."
The price of success. Counties must be given every opportunity to facilitate both codes in a reasonable timescale. The end of year schedule for provincial club and All-Ireland club series being on a shorter timescale will be a part of the facilitation of dual championships in counties like Wexford. Counties like Wexford must decide do they want more time for their championships or the provincial/All-Ireland series at the end of the year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6899 - 04/12/2022 08:56:58    2449466

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The price of success. Counties must be given every opportunity to facilitate both codes in a reasonable timescale. The end of year schedule for provincial club and All-Ireland club series being on a shorter timescale will be a part of the facilitation of dual championships in counties like Wexford. Counties like Wexford must decide do they want more time for their championships or the provincial/All-Ireland series at the end of the year."
You still haven't answered why the provincial and AI club championships can't be in Jan, Feb and March. Finals were always on Paddy's Day.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 04/12/2022 16:00:11    2449497

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Replying To Viking66:  "You still haven't answered why the provincial and AI club championships can't be in Jan, Feb and March. Finals were always on Paddy's Day."
Because the season is too long and extending it especially for so few teams/games is madness

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2874 - 04/12/2022 16:55:37    2449501

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Because the season is too long and extending it especially for so few teams/games is madness"
A lot of teams would be finished before November.

It'd only be a few teams that need to start in January or February. Very few teams will need to do this every season.

You're pushing back the start of the intercounty season and club leagues so for the majority of players the season is down to March to October.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3829 - 04/12/2022 17:20:11    2449504

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Replying To KillingFields:  "Because the season is too long and extending it especially for so few teams/games is madness"
It's only for those few clubs not for everyone else. It's a big deal for the clubs in it so let them be able to give it their best shot.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6179 - 04/12/2022 17:22:46    2449505

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