National Forum

Late County Finals - Split Season

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The intercounty championships are April to July. The club championships are August to December. 4 months of intercounty championship compared with 5 months of club championships.
A good club structure will have club county leagues in parallel with the inter-county championship season, giving club players plenty of playing time between April and July, prior to the club championships.
The National Football League is part of the All-Ireland qualification. The league is popular with the GPA. So much so, they wanted it intertwined with the championship.
The CPA were fully on board the plan for the All-Ireland club championships to be completed within the calendar year. They have been given August and September in place of April."
club championships should be starting far earlier than August though. Many counties are out well before August and even with club leagues you should be starting the main competition for club players earlier than August.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2934 - 27/11/2022 16:06:57    2448858

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Drop the dual player fascination, if players want to play both codes they have to make the sacrifice's not every other player."
I'm not proposing any club player dual or otherwise makes sacrifices. Read my posts. I just don't see why the majority of club players from every county, dual or otherwise, have to have less championship games just so that a handful of players from the elite clubs in the country can have nearly 3 whole months for the provincial and AI club series to be completed in time for Xmas.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 27/11/2022 16:46:15    2448862

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Replying To KillingFields:  "club championships should be starting far earlier than August though. Many counties are out well before August and even with club leagues you should be starting the main competition for club players earlier than August."
Of course. August for All-Ireland finalists. All club championships should be provisionally ready to start within 2 weeks of championship exit. The majority of club championships will be able to start in June or July.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 27/11/2022 16:47:23    2448863

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The intercounty championships are April to July. The club championships are August to December. 4 months of intercounty championship compared with 5 months of club championships.
A good club structure will have club county leagues in parallel with the inter-county championship season, giving club players plenty of playing time between April and July, prior to the club championships.
The National Football League is part of the All-Ireland qualification. The league is popular with the GPA. So much so, they wanted it intertwined with the championship.
The CPA were fully on board the plan for the All-Ireland club championships to be completed within the calendar year. They have been given August and September in place of April."
The structure you proposed that I answered had the AI finals in August. And as you say the intercounty Leagues are important competitions, and games I personally am already looking forward to, as also are the preseason competitions. So the Intercounty season you are proposing really is 8 months, January to August. And you only gave most club players a little over 2 months to play all their meaningful games for the year. Club Leagues without the clubs best players and nothing at stake aren't in any way as good to watch. They are structured challenge games is all. Where was this plan to have the club championships completed in the calendar year proposed or agreed?
I reckon you must belong to some elite club who competes in the provincial or AI series fairly regularly. I, like most members of the GAA, belong to a club that rarely does. Even though we reached a county final in hurling and a county semifinal in football our season was over by the 1st week of October.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 27/11/2022 17:01:52    2448867

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Replying To Viking66:  "I'm not proposing any club player dual or otherwise makes sacrifices. Read my posts. I just don't see why the majority of club players from every county, dual or otherwise, have to have less championship games just so that a handful of players from the elite clubs in the country can have nearly 3 whole months for the provincial and AI club series to be completed in time for Xmas."
All-Ireland finalists can complete club championships in August, September and October. That's 3 months.
All other counties can also complete club championships in 3 months.
The provincial championships require 2 months, potentially reduced to 1 month for All-Ireland finalists. The AI semi-finals and finals require 1 month.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 27/11/2022 17:11:59    2448870

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Replying To TerribleFootwork:  "If there was a high number of dual players in Tyrone i somehow think you'd have a different view."
Honestly wouldn't because there aren't enough weekends in the year for lots of players to play both codes. Imagine a lad at university playing both codes, then playing both codes for club U20s and club seniors. Burn out or what. Sometimes in life you have to choose.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1506 - 27/11/2022 17:12:27    2448871

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Honestly wouldn't because there aren't enough weekends in the year for lots of players to play both codes. Imagine a lad at university playing both codes, then playing both codes for club U20s and club seniors. Burn out or what. Sometimes in life you have to choose."
Maybe then he doesnt play club u20s or cuts back on some teams.
you dont need to play for every team you are eligible for. or at least shouldnt be expected to.
Leaving u20 club championships to end of year and the worst weather is ridiculous.
it would be far better if played in spring/summer/early autumn with better weather conditions to allow for better quality of games and then you have more of an off season as well.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 2934 - 27/11/2022 17:16:42    2448872

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Honestly wouldn't because there aren't enough weekends in the year for lots of players to play both codes. Imagine a lad at university playing both codes, then playing both codes for club U20s and club seniors. Burn out or what. Sometimes in life you have to choose."
Hypothetical 1 here, your own club is a strong dual club and the hurling team are short 5 talented players who are focused on football and football team short 5 lads who are focused on hurling, that still wouldn't change your view?

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 427 - 27/11/2022 17:27:10    2448874

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Replying To legendzxix:  "All-Ireland finalists can complete club championships in August, September and October. That's 3 months.
All other counties can also complete club championships in 3 months.
The provincial championships require 2 months, potentially reduced to 1 month for All-Ireland finalists. The AI semi-finals and finals require 1 month."
Your maths isn't adding up. If the provincial club championships require 2 months and the AI 1 month, and the provincial don't start until November, as you say October is for the county club championships, how in gods name are you expecting the club calender to be completed by the 3rd week in December? Before Xmas. That's only 7 or at most 8 weekends.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 27/11/2022 17:33:20    2448877

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Honestly wouldn't because there aren't enough weekends in the year for lots of players to play both codes. Imagine a lad at university playing both codes, then playing both codes for club U20s and club seniors. Burn out or what. Sometimes in life you have to choose."
Think most lads would prefer playing those games to incessant training instead.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 27/11/2022 17:34:46    2448878

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Replying To Viking66:  "The structure you proposed that I answered had the AI finals in August. And as you say the intercounty Leagues are important competitions, and games I personally am already looking forward to, as also are the preseason competitions. So the Intercounty season you are proposing really is 8 months, January to August. And you only gave most club players a little over 2 months to play all their meaningful games for the year. Club Leagues without the clubs best players and nothing at stake aren't in any way as good to watch. They are structured challenge games is all. Where was this plan to have the club championships completed in the calendar year proposed or agreed?
I reckon you must belong to some elite club who competes in the provincial or AI series fairly regularly. I, like most members of the GAA, belong to a club that rarely does. Even though we reached a county final in hurling and a county semifinal in football our season was over by the 1st week of October."
Intercounty season of March to August should mean club championship season of September to January.
Intercounty season of February to July should mean club championship season from August to December.
In both scenarios, counties exiting the championship early can start their club championships earlier for obvious reasons.
The GAA were incrementing bit by bit to achieve the calendar year season. I think Kilmacud Crokes success on both fronts has seen the season extended this year.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 27/11/2022 18:41:55    2448881

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Replying To Viking66:  "Your maths isn't adding up. If the provincial club championships require 2 months and the AI 1 month, and the provincial don't start until November, as you say October is for the county club championships, how in gods name are you expecting the club calender to be completed by the 3rd week in December? Before Xmas. That's only 7 or at most 8 weekends."
The club champions from All-Ireland finalists should only require 1 month of provincial championship. A bye to the semi-finals.
The club champions from other counties would require 2 months of provincial championship. Starting off in the preliminary round or quarter-finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6922 - 27/11/2022 18:44:33    2448882

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Moving All - Ireland finals to mid Summer is causing more bother than it was worth. Don't think players were treated that badly before and at least every county knew where they stood at beginning of year. It's all rush rush now with no time to digest results or get over minor injuries. A couple or three weeks between games in championship.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 1506 - 27/11/2022 20:06:18    2448892

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Replying To Saynothing:  "Moving All - Ireland finals to mid Summer is causing more bother than it was worth. Don't think players were treated that badly before and at least every county knew where they stood at beginning of year. It's all rush rush now with no time to digest results or get over minor injuries. A couple or three weeks between games in championship."
I know ye're bit isolated up there in Tyrone but there were years of moaning about fixtures before the current system was agreed on .

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 555 - 27/11/2022 21:25:26    2448899

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The club champions from All-Ireland finalists should only require 1 month of provincial championship. A bye to the semi-finals.
The club champions from other counties would require 2 months of provincial championship. Starting off in the preliminary round or quarter-finals."
Why should club champions from AI finalists get a bye in a club championship? More elitist nonsense from you.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 27/11/2022 22:01:32    2448901

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Replying To Viking66:  "Why should club champions from AI finalists get a bye in a club championship? More elitist nonsense from you."
It's a novel idea, and it would give those counties more time to complete their club championships, since they couldn't start them as early as all other counties. Personally, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, but I would wonder the knock-on effects of it if both All-Ireland finalists happened to be from the same province.

There are not many other suggestions here from either the Kerry man or the Tyrone man that I'd agree with, though. In particular, I think the suggestion that we should "lose the fascination with dual players" is nothing short of disgraceful.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1280 - 28/11/2022 11:54:58    2448933

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "It's a novel idea, and it would give those counties more time to complete their club championships, since they couldn't start them as early as all other counties. Personally, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, but I would wonder the knock-on effects of it if both All-Ireland finalists happened to be from the same province.

There are not many other suggestions here from either the Kerry man or the Tyrone man that I'd agree with, though. In particular, I think the suggestion that we should "lose the fascination with dual players" is nothing short of disgraceful."
Agree on the last sentence, absolute definition of self-interest trumping everything else.

TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 427 - 28/11/2022 12:14:29    2448940

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Tough for Clifford to miss the Kerry holiday because of the Munster final. The Munster council should have played it earlier so there would be no clashing.
The Kerry County championship probably doesn't help,as the Junior final was played after it was finished

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 2605 - 28/11/2022 13:01:38    2448951

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Tough for Clifford to miss the Kerry holiday because of the Munster final. The Munster council should have played it earlier so there would be no clashing.
The Kerry County championship probably doesn't help,as the Junior final was played after it was finished"
And the Kerry regional Championships as well.
Them cute hoors seem to think the more games lads play the better they get.....

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 555 - 28/11/2022 13:16:25    2448953

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "It's a novel idea, and it would give those counties more time to complete their club championships, since they couldn't start them as early as all other counties. Personally, I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand, but I would wonder the knock-on effects of it if both All-Ireland finalists happened to be from the same province.

There are not many other suggestions here from either the Kerry man or the Tyrone man that I'd agree with, though. In particular, I think the suggestion that we should "lose the fascination with dual players" is nothing short of disgraceful."
Agree saynothings attitude goes against what the GAA was set up to do.
Agree from a scheduling point of view giving the AI finalists club champions a bye makes it easier but from a competition point of view I think its nonsense that a club should get an advantage in a club competition based on what a county team does or doesn't achieve.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6651 - 28/11/2022 14:22:50    2448968

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