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Is Pat Spillane Right Or Wrong With His Three Improvement Suggestions .

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Replying To brianb:  "I was at this game too. Wicklowsupport is right in saying you could hear a pin drop.

I'd put the blame more on the Clane side. They played good open football to get to the final and then went fully defensive once they got there. Naas controlled the ball - it was made way too easy for them. But they knew they had the measure in a patient game. Never tied to go long - just accepted that Clane would put the defensive structure in place and that they'd eventually take their chances.

Yes - not all games are like this but too many of them are."
Different strokes for different folks Brian. I'm enjoying your posts. You put a lot of thought in to them and they are well worth reading. I'm with Flaker on this. As I said earlier different strokes for different folks.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6145 - 14/10/2022 13:00:33    2443961

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "The problem is the gap between teams in that scenario. Naas are miles ahead. Eunans in Donegal will probably do the same tomorrow. This happens at Senior level where big clubs are going through a dominant phase. But it's a bit laughable to blame the coaches of Naas for easily winning a county final because they used controlling tactics. Again we are highlighting one game and forgetting that the majority are not like this."
The coaches/managers will say that they are in the results business not the entertainment business and that the results justify the means. No disrespect to Naas but i found the game a bit of a bore but maybe i am more of a traditionalist than a purist. I agree with Brianb, if i was a Clane supporter i would be disappointed, they should have had a go when their initial game plan wasn't working instead they stuck to it for the wholr game. They were well beaten and the players looked deflated at the end.

wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2029 - 14/10/2022 16:45:46    2443993

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Falling attendances? Football q-finals 2022 Derry v Clare and Dublin v Cork att.50,874. Q-finals Galway v Armagh and Kerry v Mayo, 71,353. Semi-final Galway v Derry and the Tailteann Cup Final 68,830. Semi-final Kerry v Dublin 73,609. Final Kerry v Galway 82,300. There's nothing shabby about any of those attendances. Falling attendances my a**e."
Personally I dont think that these figures prove anything as the concluding stages of the championship is always well attended. Falling attendances will be felt from the bottom up and not from the top down. I've watched a few club matches on TV (or bits of them as most of them are too awful to watch the full game) over the last few weeks and the attendances seem to be brutal with the cameras scanning the ground trying to pick out groups of people here and there. My own opinion is unless the excitement factor and enjoyment factor improves, falling attendences will be the norm and when this happend it will be very hard to reverse

seventyniner (Galway) - Posts: 41 - 15/10/2022 16:55:06    2444077

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Replying To seventyniner:  "Personally I dont think that these figures prove anything as the concluding stages of the championship is always well attended. Falling attendances will be felt from the bottom up and not from the top down. I've watched a few club matches on TV (or bits of them as most of them are too awful to watch the full game) over the last few weeks and the attendances seem to be brutal with the cameras scanning the ground trying to pick out groups of people here and there. My own opinion is unless the excitement factor and enjoyment factor improves, falling attendences will be the norm and when this happend it will be very hard to reverse"
Cool which matches in particular had low attendance compared to previous years ?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8191 - 15/10/2022 18:44:06    2444113

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Replying To seventyniner:  "Personally I dont think that these figures prove anything as the concluding stages of the championship is always well attended. Falling attendances will be felt from the bottom up and not from the top down. I've watched a few club matches on TV (or bits of them as most of them are too awful to watch the full game) over the last few weeks and the attendances seem to be brutal with the cameras scanning the ground trying to pick out groups of people here and there. My own opinion is unless the excitement factor and enjoyment factor improves, falling attendences will be the norm and when this happend it will be very hard to reverse"
In 2019 the combined attendance for the two football semi finals was 116,000. The combined attendance for the two football semi finals this year was 142,000. The appetite for football is there. You can't dismiss the attendance figures. Your post is based entirely on supposition. I can't comment on the attendances in other counties but I know the attendances at the club championship matches I went to in Louth were good.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6145 - 16/10/2022 14:44:12    2444193

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Cool which matches in particular had low attendance compared to previous years ?"
The Leinster championship is certainly poorly attended compared to previous years - though that is mainly for reasons unrelated to the style of football. 66k turned up to see Dublin beat Kildare in 2017 - 5 years later only 31k made the trip.

Average football attendances have been falling for years. I could find an article a few years back charting the decline in average attendances from a steady 18k-20k per game for the first 10 years of the qualifiers to 13k in 2016. I tried looking at this year's championship, but attendance figures seem to be very hard to come by these days - it would surprise me if the average has grown since then. We can say what we want on here, but people are voting with their feet.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 370 - 17/10/2022 15:09:05    2444349

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1: Kickouts out over the 45m line
I don't believe in forcing the kickouts out over the 45 will help, what will help is putting a hard time limit on the kickout. Too many times we've seen the goalie dance around while waiting for a player to break free. There's extra balls at the goals so 10/12 seconds should be more than enough time for the kickout . The same goes for free kicks and line balls. A free kick to score would be given a little more time.
2: No back pass to the keeper.
I think as it stands is good not been able to pass it straight back. Some goalies now spend a lot of time carrying the ball up field. This rule would stop this. to me leave as is.
3: Curtail the number of hand passes.
Impossible to enforce in the heat of battle. if the passes allowed went over 3 or 4 the referee would have a hope. too much going on.
One thing that should be stopped is the slapped goal. I should only count if it's put in with the closed fist, too many are been caught and then thrown in.

cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 472 - 17/10/2022 15:24:43    2444355

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Replying To brianb:  "The Leinster championship is certainly poorly attended compared to previous years - though that is mainly for reasons unrelated to the style of football. 66k turned up to see Dublin beat Kildare in 2017 - 5 years later only 31k made the trip.

Average football attendances have been falling for years. I could find an article a few years back charting the decline in average attendances from a steady 18k-20k per game for the first 10 years of the qualifiers to 13k in 2016. I tried looking at this year's championship, but attendance figures seem to be very hard to come by these days - it would surprise me if the average has grown since then. We can say what we want on here, but people are voting with their feet."
Thanks for that opinion piece but I replied to the poster who was specifically talking about the club championship and low attendances, unless I am mistaken. And as for bringing the Leinter championship into a debate about attendances? You can do better than that surely?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8191 - 17/10/2022 20:03:30    2444412

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Thanks for that opinion piece but I replied to the poster who was specifically talking about the club championship and low attendances, unless I am mistaken. And as for bringing the Leinter championship into a debate about attendances? You can do better than that surely?"
Where did you say anything about club games? As ever something gives you an answer to your question but when you don't like the answer you change the question.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1485 - 18/10/2022 10:50:58    2444457

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Replying To Greengrass:  "In 2019 the combined attendance for the two football semi finals was 116,000. The combined attendance for the two football semi finals this year was 142,000. The appetite for football is there. You can't dismiss the attendance figures. Your post is based entirely on supposition. I can't comment on the attendances in other counties but I know the attendances at the club championship matches I went to in Louth were good."
They've fell through the floor in Wexford. Hurling down also but by nowhere near as much.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14127 - 18/10/2022 11:12:56    2444461

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Replying To oneoff:  "Where did you say anything about club games? As ever something gives you an answer to your question but when you don't like the answer you change the question."
Jesus wept. The poster I replied to was talking about club game attendances. Read the posts again. Then someone else responded to me and they started talking about Leinster championship attendances. I am not changing any questions. I will debate whatever you want.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8191 - 18/10/2022 11:39:30    2444466

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Jesus wept. The poster I replied to was talking about club game attendances. Read the posts again. Then someone else responded to me and they started talking about Leinster championship attendances. I am not changing any questions. I will debate whatever you want."
If you were talking about club attendances why did you ask can they do better than using Leinster championship as an example? Would you have the same issue if Munster or Connacht were used?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1485 - 18/10/2022 12:20:54    2444476

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Thanks for that opinion piece but I replied to the poster who was specifically talking about the club championship and low attendances, unless I am mistaken. And as for bringing the Leinter championship into a debate about attendances? You can do better than that surely?"
Leinster doesn't count? Average attendances don't count? Club attendances? Lets look at Club Attendances.

From an Irish Times article where the GAA were "hopeful" of 20k turning up back in Jan:

"Club finals haven't been as well attended in more recent years, with 17,819 present for last season's double bill of Corofin-Dr Crokes and Ballyhale-St Thomas' whereas just 15,000 braved the Arctic weather of 2018 for Cuala-Na Piarsaigh and Corofin-Nemo Rangers - on the same afternoon as Ireland's Grand Slam match in Twickenham.

The record attendance is 40,106, 21 years ago when Crossmaglen overcame Ballina and Doora-Barefield beat Rathnure. The average for the past two decades is around 27,500."

Attendances are dropping on average at intercounty level and elite club level. Less people are going to matches.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 370 - 18/10/2022 12:27:26    2444477

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Replying To brianb:  "Leinster doesn't count? Average attendances don't count? Club attendances? Lets look at Club Attendances.

From an Irish Times article where the GAA were "hopeful" of 20k turning up back in Jan:

"Club finals haven't been as well attended in more recent years, with 17,819 present for last season's double bill of Corofin-Dr Crokes and Ballyhale-St Thomas' whereas just 15,000 braved the Arctic weather of 2018 for Cuala-Na Piarsaigh and Corofin-Nemo Rangers - on the same afternoon as Ireland's Grand Slam match in Twickenham.

The record attendance is 40,106, 21 years ago when Crossmaglen overcame Ballina and Doora-Barefield beat Rathnure. The average for the past two decades is around 27,500."

Attendances are dropping on average at intercounty level and elite club level. Less people are going to matches."
You think there aren't multiple reasons apart from the the style of football?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8191 - 18/10/2022 12:57:06    2444483

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "You think there aren't multiple reasons apart from the the style of football?"
I mentioned earlier that there are multiple reasons (particularly within Leinster). I believe the style of football being played is one of them.

brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 370 - 18/10/2022 14:09:11    2444500

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Replying To brianb:  "I mentioned earlier that there are multiple reasons (particularly within Leinster). I believe the style of football being played is one of them."
I have said for years on this forum that the provincial structures were killing the interest of a lot of fans. They are trying to restructure now bit by bit but it will take time. The gap between the top teams and the cost of travelling and attendances has been the main reason for lower attendances in recent years at inter county level.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8191 - 18/10/2022 14:54:33    2444504

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Who cares what Spillane thinks himself and O'Rourke should have been put out to pasture years ago

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 998 - 18/10/2022 15:20:07    2444511

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Replying To totalrecall:  "Who cares what Spillane thinks himself and O'Rourke should have been put out to pasture years ago"
Agree 100000%. He loves to hear himself talk. Brolly is cut from the same cloth

Zucker (Leitrim) - Posts: 156 - 18/10/2022 17:05:08    2444525

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There were some great games in this years championship but alot of bad ones too. The final was a great game of ball. At one stage early in the second half there were 10 points kicked from play (5 each for Kerry and Galway). However that's unusual nowadays. The keep ball can be a hard watch and sometimes watching a team attack about 30 yards from goal and then ten seconds later it back in their own fb line. I think some changes might improve the game as a spectacle. Also in hurling the sliotar is so light now the players are shooting from their own fb line. The old battles between full forward and full back are gone and we never see doubling on the ball now like the great Jimmy Barry Murphy or Steve Mahon of Galway. Yes players are more skilful now but I still think the games need some changes.

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3851 - 18/10/2022 17:56:09    2444531

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "I have said for years on this forum that the provincial structures were killing the interest of a lot of fans. They are trying to restructure now bit by bit but it will take time. The gap between the top teams and the cost of travelling and attendances has been the main reason for lower attendances in recent years at inter county level."
Tomsmith here from Cavan
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I have said for years on this forum that the provincial structures were killing the interest of a lot of fans. They are trying to restructure now bit by bit but it will take time. The gap between the top teams and the cost of travelling and attendances has been the main reason for lower attendances in recent years at inter county level.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7326

Well Flaker have to agree with you this time that the cost of travel is a very important factor for some Counties.
Cavan people who travel away up to Dublin have to pay two Tolls, a bite to eat if you dont take aflask, If you go to the Chapel you have to pay when the plate comes around (ndeed in some Chapels theplate comes twice) and then lockhard has to get some money for looking after the Car . I feel that Counties that have to transverse Roads with tolls should get a reduction in admission fees

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 3988 - 22/10/2022 18:25:15    2445049

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