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Replying To StoreysTash: "Like everything else in our society, this one is cultural.
Go up to any u8 match, and there will be a parent berating a referee.
I do not like rugby and never watch it bar the 6 nations. It always amazed me, a red card is shown and some 6ft 7 beast walks off without a word.
Then, a subsequent appeal is an appeal in name only, you need to prove categorically that the decision was wrong.
In GAA, all you need to do is find a technicality of some sort, and be willing to keep appealing, to get off. The Clare players last year being the perfect example. A player using a lads back like he was chopping wood, but some nonsense technicality gets him off.
I hate 1/2 of my team mates in the club. They are moany, preachy, whingers. If they can blame a referee, they will. They never take responsibility for their role in losing a match.
How many million are spent by counties preparing teams and everything down to testing a players urine yet we can't pay a referee properly for his time?
But the GAA have always scapegoated referees and I can't think of 1 example where the GAA released a press release to say "We are backing the referees decision", can you?" For sure. And then on the other hand they claim they are trying to encourage more lads to take up refereeing. It would be a complete joke if it was funny but it isn't.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11827 - 09/09/2022 09:49:31
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Replying To bruffgael: "And still no word on any action being taken against the perpetrator or his club ....... it wouldn't surprise me if this was left sitting in limbo and then swept under the carpet." It's now 9 days since the incident, and still not a word.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2458 - 09/09/2022 12:28:58
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Like everything else in our society, this one is cultural.
Go up to any u8 match, and there will be a parent berating a referee.
I do not like rugby and never watch it bar the 6 nations. It always amazed me, a red card is shown and some 6ft 7 beast walks off without a word.
Then, a subsequent appeal is an appeal in name only, you need to prove categorically that the decision was wrong.
In GAA, all you need to do is find a technicality of some sort, and be willing to keep appealing, to get off. The Clare players last year being the perfect example. A player using a lads back like he was chopping wood, but some nonsense technicality gets him off.
I hate 1/2 of my team mates in the club. They are moany, preachy, whingers. If they can blame a referee, they will. They never take responsibility for their role in losing a match.
How many million are spent by counties preparing teams and everything down to testing a players urine yet we can't pay a referee properly for his time?
But the GAA have always scapegoated referees and I can't think of 1 example where the GAA released a press release to say "We are backing the referees decision", can you?" Its been built into the sport from beginning about respect.
the laws of game are built around laws of the land and at the pro level of game you have solicitors etc involved
There also isnt multiple avenues to appeal appeal and appeal any decision
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3509 - 09/09/2022 12:49:34
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I think a national strike is incoming if this isn't handled and its looking like it's not likely. I know a one current and a few ex refs and they are disgusted by this. If the call comes from Roscommon most if not all are ready to support them. This is not an isolated incident.
galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 09/09/2022 15:01:00
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Replying To Square_B: "Roscommon CB's responce to date has been fairly pathetic. Running off to Croke Park to solve the issue when they are free to level fines and suspensions. They even tried to stop the referees from withdrawing their services last weekend. Pathetic stuff." If Croke Park threatened to suspend Roscommon GAA though I guarantee you the Rossies would then take action .....
bruffgael (Limerick) - Posts: 143 - 09/09/2022 15:22:06
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Replying To galwayfball: "I think a national strike is incoming if this isn't handled and its looking like it's not likely. I know a one current and a few ex refs and they are disgusted by this. If the call comes from Roscommon most if not all are ready to support them. This is not an isolated incident." A separate refs association where they have control over suspensions, CCCC and the like. GAA can then let them decide who refs what games and GAA stat neutral to all teams.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2012 - 09/09/2022 17:52:22
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Replying To bruffgael: "If Croke Park threatened to suspend Roscommon GAA though I guarantee you the Rossies would then take action ....." It wouldn't be the first time they've run off to Croke Park to have their problems sorted. No action after 10 days is fairly pathetic.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 09/09/2022 19:12:35
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From today's Independent:
Roscommon County Board still deliberating what action to take over alleged referee assault
"An official recording of the match, which had to be abandoned early in the second half, was handed over to the Gardai at their request by St Aidans. It is believed that a criminal prosecution is unlikely.
The club is now awaiting the outcome of the investigation, with the accused mentor facing the possibility of a lengthy ban of up to 96 weeks which is the maximum suspension allowed."
link
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2458 - 11/09/2022 11:51:34
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "From today's Independent: Roscommon County Board still deliberating what action to take over alleged referee assault"An official recording of the match, which had to be abandoned early in the second half, was handed over to the Gardai at their request by St Aidans. It is believed that a criminal prosecution is unlikely. The club is now awaiting the outcome of the investigation, with the accused mentor facing the possibility of a lengthy ban of up to 96 weeks which is the maximum suspension allowed." link"
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1414 - 11/09/2022 13:08:49
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Kerry GAA probes abuse of Under 11 hurling referee
An investigation is underway in Kerry after an Under 11 hurling match - operating under 'Silent Sideline' and 'No score-keeping' guidelines - was abandoned by the referee in the first half because of unacceptable abuse from the sideline.
Irish Examiner
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40959296.html
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2458 - 12/09/2022 12:24:45
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At this stage of affairs... many days after that horrific incident... are we the wiser... and have things changed?
Nothing has changed at local level at underage and at club.
Referees continue to be verbally abused at both underage and adult level by mentors and spectators.
I have witnessed and heard such abuse at both underage and adult level.
Body cams are not the answer.
Referee training is not the answer.
The rules and specifically defining any tackle is not the answer.
Having one Croke Park official to specifiy deal with Referees is not the answer.... there is one there already.
Limiting the number of mentors on the sideline is not the answer.
All of these can be worked on and possibly used... like body cams... for certain situations but in themselves are not the solution.
Club officials and mentors who hear parents or club members abusing must be called out there and then... and mentors and officials need to have the fortitude to do so.
Only when individuals actually call out these people will attitudes be challenged and acceptance of such vitriol will be lessened.
There is however no doubt that especially at inter county level that when a player is sent off... for many counties a process is instantly pursued to find a technicality and have the decision overturned. That has undermined the entire process of refereeing and discipline not just at inter county but at every subsequent level.
I believe the morale of intercounty Referees is at an all time low as a result. Thus has permeated down the ranks also and all of this is rebounding with a national crisis of recruitment at very worrying levels.
One appeal and no more I believe is a course of action that should be looked at given especially the fact that games are now on a weekly basis at both County and club and far too much energy and distraction is there if an appeal is in the
Appeals based on miscarriage of justice only should be the allowed.
Abuse has in my view extended to the field of play and intercounty stars are not shy about giving heavy verbals to referees and this has a drip drip feed effect on us all when we go to our club game.
Zero tolerance really does need to come into play at every level.
Referees firstly need to report such abuse... and co boards need to act with full rigour when that report is made.
If games need to be abandoned - due to such verbal interference or make the game almost impossinle to referee- then so be it. Abandon the game and report.
Then the full rigour must be applied.
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 12/09/2022 13:55:54
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Replying To carlowman: "At this stage of affairs... many days after that horrific incident... are we the wiser... and have things changed?
Nothing has changed at local level at underage and at club.
Referees continue to be verbally abused at both underage and adult level by mentors and spectators.
I have witnessed and heard such abuse at both underage and adult level.
Body cams are not the answer.
Referee training is not the answer.
The rules and specifically defining any tackle is not the answer.
Having one Croke Park official to specifiy deal with Referees is not the answer.... there is one there already.
Limiting the number of mentors on the sideline is not the answer.
All of these can be worked on and possibly used... like body cams... for certain situations but in themselves are not the solution.
Club officials and mentors who hear parents or club members abusing must be called out there and then... and mentors and officials need to have the fortitude to do so.
Only when individuals actually call out these people will attitudes be challenged and acceptance of such vitriol will be lessened.
There is however no doubt that especially at inter county level that when a player is sent off... for many counties a process is instantly pursued to find a technicality and have the decision overturned. That has undermined the entire process of refereeing and discipline not just at inter county but at every subsequent level.
I believe the morale of intercounty Referees is at an all time low as a result. Thus has permeated down the ranks also and all of this is rebounding with a national crisis of recruitment at very worrying levels.
One appeal and no more I believe is a course of action that should be looked at given especially the fact that games are now on a weekly basis at both County and club and far too much energy and distraction is there if an appeal is in the
Appeals based on miscarriage of justice only should be the allowed.
Abuse has in my view extended to the field of play and intercounty stars are not shy about giving heavy verbals to referees and this has a drip drip feed effect on us all when we go to our club game.
Zero tolerance really does need to come into play at every level.
Referees firstly need to report such abuse... and co boards need to act with full rigour when that report is made.
If games need to be abandoned - due to such verbal interference or make the game almost impossinle to referee- then so be it. Abandon the game and report.
Then the full rigour must be applied." Well said Carlow an. This abuse has to stop and especially underage where its a terrible example for the kids. Alot of the time it's angry parents more so than mentors. The ref should stop the game and warn the culprit. If it happens again ask the offender to leave the pitch. If the offender refuses explain to both sides the games is being abandoned. The club the offender is belong to should take measures against that person afterwards also.
CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3675 - 12/09/2022 14:07:00
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Replying To carlowman: "At this stage of affairs... many days after that horrific incident... are we the wiser... and have things changed?
Nothing has changed at local level at underage and at club.
Referees continue to be verbally abused at both underage and adult level by mentors and spectators.
I have witnessed and heard such abuse at both underage and adult level.
Body cams are not the answer.
Referee training is not the answer.
The rules and specifically defining any tackle is not the answer.
Having one Croke Park official to specifiy deal with Referees is not the answer.... there is one there already.
Limiting the number of mentors on the sideline is not the answer.
All of these can be worked on and possibly used... like body cams... for certain situations but in themselves are not the solution.
Club officials and mentors who hear parents or club members abusing must be called out there and then... and mentors and officials need to have the fortitude to do so.
Only when individuals actually call out these people will attitudes be challenged and acceptance of such vitriol will be lessened.
There is however no doubt that especially at inter county level that when a player is sent off... for many counties a process is instantly pursued to find a technicality and have the decision overturned. That has undermined the entire process of refereeing and discipline not just at inter county but at every subsequent level.
I believe the morale of intercounty Referees is at an all time low as a result. Thus has permeated down the ranks also and all of this is rebounding with a national crisis of recruitment at very worrying levels.
One appeal and no more I believe is a course of action that should be looked at given especially the fact that games are now on a weekly basis at both County and club and far too much energy and distraction is there if an appeal is in the
Appeals based on miscarriage of justice only should be the allowed.
Abuse has in my view extended to the field of play and intercounty stars are not shy about giving heavy verbals to referees and this has a drip drip feed effect on us all when we go to our club game.
Zero tolerance really does need to come into play at every level.
Referees firstly need to report such abuse... and co boards need to act with full rigour when that report is made.
If games need to be abandoned - due to such verbal interference or make the game almost impossinle to referee- then so be it. Abandon the game and report.
Then the full rigour must be applied." Appeals process needs to change in that an automatic doubling of sanction is applied in the case of an unsuccessful appeal.
Currently, the appeals process actively encourages appealing everything as there's nothing to lose and all to gain.
Rossie2022 (Roscommon) - Posts: 26 - 12/09/2022 15:02:45
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Replying To CiarraiMick: "Well said Carlow an. This abuse has to stop and especially underage where its a terrible example for the kids. Alot of the time it's angry parents more so than mentors. The ref should stop the game and warn the culprit. If it happens again ask the offender to leave the pitch. If the offender refuses explain to both sides the games is being abandoned. The club the offender is belong to should take measures against that person afterwards also." Agree fully with you.
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 12/09/2022 15:09:27
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Moving the ball up 10 yds for dissent is only significant for a close-in free; moving it up 50 yds, as is the usual effect of a penalty in rugby, would be a more effective deterrent
befair (Down) - Posts: 237 - 12/09/2022 15:58:56
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Replying To befair: "Moving the ball up 10 yds for dissent is only significant for a close-in free; moving it up 50 yds, as is the usual effect of a penalty in rugby, would be a more effective deterrent" It's 13m not 10 yards....
carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1821 - 12/09/2022 16:23:14
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Replying To carlowman: "At this stage of affairs... many days after that horrific incident... are we the wiser... and have things changed?
Nothing has changed at local level at underage and at club.
Referees continue to be verbally abused at both underage and adult level by mentors and spectators.
I have witnessed and heard such abuse at both underage and adult level.
Body cams are not the answer.
Referee training is not the answer.
The rules and specifically defining any tackle is not the answer.
Having one Croke Park official to specifiy deal with Referees is not the answer.... there is one there already.
Limiting the number of mentors on the sideline is not the answer.
All of these can be worked on and possibly used... like body cams... for certain situations but in themselves are not the solution.
Club officials and mentors who hear parents or club members abusing must be called out there and then... and mentors and officials need to have the fortitude to do so.
Only when individuals actually call out these people will attitudes be challenged and acceptance of such vitriol will be lessened.
There is however no doubt that especially at inter county level that when a player is sent off... for many counties a process is instantly pursued to find a technicality and have the decision overturned. That has undermined the entire process of refereeing and discipline not just at inter county but at every subsequent level.
I believe the morale of intercounty Referees is at an all time low as a result. Thus has permeated down the ranks also and all of this is rebounding with a national crisis of recruitment at very worrying levels.
One appeal and no more I believe is a course of action that should be looked at given especially the fact that games are now on a weekly basis at both County and club and far too much energy and distraction is there if an appeal is in the
Appeals based on miscarriage of justice only should be the allowed.
Abuse has in my view extended to the field of play and intercounty stars are not shy about giving heavy verbals to referees and this has a drip drip feed effect on us all when we go to our club game.
Zero tolerance really does need to come into play at every level.
Referees firstly need to report such abuse... and co boards need to act with full rigour when that report is made.
If games need to be abandoned - due to such verbal interference or make the game almost impossinle to referee- then so be it. Abandon the game and report.
Then the full rigour must be applied." You say all those ideas are not the answer. they are part of the solution though.
Ref training helps improve officials and is needed as what they get right now isnt good enough to help officials improve.
Coaches and or parents/supporters who abuse must be called out but again thats only part of the issue.
If clubs are found to abuse match officials maybe it should be a club ban to try get peer pressure to stop coaches who abuse officials.
stop referring to all coaches as mentors as a mentor is there to be a good influence and advise or train a team. if they abuse officials they arent doing that.
changing the rule book and making it far more straightforward will help reduce the number of people who get away with something on a technicality.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3509 - 12/09/2022 16:32:25
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Replying To befair: "Moving the ball up 10 yds for dissent is only significant for a close-in free; moving it up 50 yds, as is the usual effect of a penalty in rugby, would be a more effective deterrent" A penalty for dissent in rugby can be moved up 10m.
A penalty that goes 50m is when its kicked... very different
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3509 - 12/09/2022 16:39:48
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Replying To WanPintWin: "That's related to general poor refereeing, which happens all over the country. That's part and parcel of the game and I agree, players, managers and supporters need to accept it.
The other poster's point was in relation to blatantly biased officiating, which does also happen, particularly at club level. Refs are human and not all will be people of the highest integrity, just like any random group of people. Some will have a grudge against a certain club for any number of reasons.
Deliberately biased refereeing should definitely be called out. Not in an abusive way, but it should be challenged." Exactly. No-one has an issue with a ref making mistakes; we all make mistakes. I've been going to matches for nearly half a century, and I've seen a fair few incidents where the ref knew exactly what he was doing. A skilfully-biased ref will "let the game flow" (within the rules) for the team he's favouring, but will apply the rules strictly (also within the rules) against the team he's trying to do a number on.
We've all seen this happen, and let's stop pretending that it doesn't happen, and that all bad refereeing decisions are due to "errors".
Thing is, there is no redress. All within the rules. And part of the reason for fans' frustration is this lack of consistency, and this lack of any official avenue for redress when a team is on the end of a series of scandalous decisions.
I agree though that mic-ing the refs so that we can hear why they give a decision would help. As would a bit more proactive refereeing - e.g., the rugby practice of calling the captains over when a game is starting to get niggly, and issuing a clear warning that any more nonsense will see cards being issued.
I also have a problem with some free kicks in your own half. Too many of them are no advantage whatsoever to the team that has been fouled, and all they do is give the fouling team a better chance to get back into position. If all frees were scorable frees, it might help. (If we could depend on refs to be consistent, of course.)
points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 239 - 12/09/2022 19:20:08
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "From today's Independent: Roscommon County Board still deliberating what action to take over alleged referee assault"An official recording of the match, which had to be abandoned early in the second half, was handed over to the Gardai at their request by St Aidans. It is believed that a criminal prosecution is unlikely. The club is now awaiting the outcome of the investigation, with the accused mentor facing the possibility of a lengthy ban of up to 96 weeks which is the maximum suspension allowed." link"
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1908 - 13/09/2022 13:35:35
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