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Replying To kingpuck71: "Said this for years. A player misplaces a pass or misses an easy free or a keeper makes a mess of a high ball that results in a goal and more often or not will get a " keep the head up" or a "next time" or some other form of encouragement.
A referee makes a call, that a lot of the time is correct gets berated from players, managers, supporters/parents from the team the free is against.
For far too long now the GAA is seen as a safe haven for thuggery and actions that would not be tolerated on the street. Why? A legal jargon official guide that has too many loopholes to win appeals. A system that allows unacceptance from the perpetrator and also allows appeal after appeal at different levels until a T is found not to be crossed or an I dotted. One appeal only should be allowed and after that accept your punishment.
The best way to curb this behaviour is to come down hard on the club. An individual can lay their hand on an official and get a 48 or 96 week ban yet the following week will be at a match watching from over the fence, no doubt berating another referee. Very few clubs will keep these people from entering the club unless heavy fines are levied on the club. Only when the club is punished will they start dealing with the troublemakers." The best way to curb this behaviour is to get the gardai involved and treat it for what it is, common assault. And have the culprit up in court.
Assault is assault whether on the street or on a GAA pitch and it needs to start being treated as such. You can't hide cowardly acts behind sport.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1905 - 04/09/2022 17:57:47
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Imagine being a club referee in Galway based on some of the posters comments here!!! No wonder we have disciplinary issues.
Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1486 - 04/09/2022 21:22:32
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I can see referees wearing GoPro cameras in the near future. Inexpensive and guaranteed more authority once every player signs off on the privacy stuff (perhaps as part of paying their yearly membership).
If you could be caught on camera physically or verbally abusing referees on his bodycam and this could be played at disciplinary meetings, abuse of refs would be reduced double quick, I'm sure of it.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1318 - 05/09/2022 10:43:13
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Replying To Crinigan: "I can see referees wearing GoPro cameras in the near future. Inexpensive and guaranteed more authority once every player signs off on the privacy stuff (perhaps as part of paying their yearly membership).
If you could be caught on camera physically or verbally abusing referees on his bodycam and this could be played at disciplinary meetings, abuse of refs would be reduced double quick, I'm sure of it." Refs should be wearing these to help with training occasionally anyway so the ref development officer in their county can watch game back and see how they managed a game.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3504 - 05/09/2022 13:57:41
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Could attacking refs or anyone have anything to do with the way your brought up. Yes in the heat of the moment things can be shouted to refs or you get the odd scrap but attacking someone. GAA can't be blamed for madness.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2010 - 05/09/2022 20:38:38
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Replying To carlovia: "That's a very good post. All of us have gone to matches and thought we got done by a ref only to look at highlights and realise that the ref got the call right or it was a marginal call.
Nothing excuses assaulting a ref. Imagine if a goalkeeper made a mistake in a match and someone hit him for it.
We all need to change our behaviour starting with elimination of verbal abuse of people who are trying their best." Sorry carlovia and with no disrespect to Gaillimh_Abu but it was only a good post with his benefit of hindsight in saying "when I watched it again" etc, etc.
As a people our tolerance level with / towards verbal or physical aggression is lessening, we have slowly developed an attitude, Morals and standards are structured around the kitchen table, at time we seem to ignoring both, it shouldn't be the case that match officials need more support rather the offenders need less and held to account.
Discipline / Indiscipline is part of our everyday life not just in sport, personally I wouldn't point a finger or be judge and jury till I know the facts, along with that Croke park officials should not be seen to kick the can down the road and pass the book so to speak.
A persons personal health sometimes has a roll to play.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 06/09/2022 09:57:44
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Replying To Saynothing: "Could attacking refs or anyone have anything to do with the way your brought up. Yes in the heat of the moment things can be shouted to refs or you get the odd scrap but attacking someone. GAA can't be blamed for madness." GAA most certainly can for their lack of support for Refs over the years.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1410 - 06/09/2022 10:43:21
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Are we not getting a bit carried away with the need for body cameras on refs? In relation to proving an incident took place and the perpatrator, I think we might be.
What the referee states in his report is suppsed to be taken as fact when it comes to any disciplinary committee with just a few exceptions which must be "compelling". Here's the exact text from the GAA Disciplinary Handbook.
Referees' Reports: One of the principal exceptions to the general preference for oral evidence is the
Referee's Report. The Referee's Report (including any Clarification) is proof of what it says except
where "unedited video evidence or other compelling evidence" shows that the Referee has made a
mistake. There is no special manner by which video evidence should be shown. The video can be
slowed down, speeded up and so on, as long as it is not altered. Whoever is introducing it in must
provide the other side with a copy of the tape/DVD in advance of the Hearing so that they have a
chance of viewing it.
What is "other compelling evidence"? It is not possible (or indeed desirable) to define this exhaustively.
This rider is added to the Rule because there is always a possibility that some evidence may be
available that is of such evidential force that it cannot be ignored. It may, for example, be a photograph
of an incident proving mistaken identity. It may be a combination of other items of evidence. While
what is "compelling" is a question of fact to be decided by the Hearings Committee, it is suggested
that the following are some examples of what - taken on their own - would not be "compelling":
• the opinions of spectators at the game;
• the opinions of County Committee Officials present at the game;
• an admission by another player that it was he who committed the infraction (as that
would tend to invite false admissions from weaker team members to exonerate the "star"
player).
Note, however, that the above matters may, combined with other evidence, demonstrate that the
Referee's Report contains an error.
Sindar (Roscommon) - Posts: 348 - 06/09/2022 16:36:12
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Replying To supersub15: "Sorry carlovia and with no disrespect to Gaillimh_Abu but it was only a good post with his benefit of hindsight in saying "when I watched it again" etc, etc.
As a people our tolerance level with / towards verbal or physical aggression is lessening, we have slowly developed an attitude, Morals and standards are structured around the kitchen table, at time we seem to ignoring both, it shouldn't be the case that match officials need more support rather the offenders need less and held to account.
Discipline / Indiscipline is part of our everyday life not just in sport, personally I wouldn't point a finger or be judge and jury till I know the facts, along with that Croke park officials should not be seen to kick the can down the road and pass the book so to speak.
A persons personal health sometimes has a roll to play." Who are you referring to when you say "A person's personal health sometimes has a roll to play" ?
A potential perpetrator? Genuine question.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1905 - 06/09/2022 17:20:47
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Replying To Sindar: "Are we not getting a bit carried away with the need for body cameras on refs? In relation to proving an incident took place and the perpatrator, I think we might be.
What the referee states in his report is suppsed to be taken as fact when it comes to any disciplinary committee with just a few exceptions which must be "compelling". Here's the exact text from the GAA Disciplinary Handbook.
Referees' Reports: One of the principal exceptions to the general preference for oral evidence is the
Referee's Report. The Referee's Report (including any Clarification) is proof of what it says except
where "unedited video evidence or other compelling evidence" shows that the Referee has made a
mistake. There is no special manner by which video evidence should be shown. The video can be
slowed down, speeded up and so on, as long as it is not altered. Whoever is introducing it in must
provide the other side with a copy of the tape/DVD in advance of the Hearing so that they have a
chance of viewing it.
What is "other compelling evidence"? It is not possible (or indeed desirable) to define this exhaustively.
This rider is added to the Rule because there is always a possibility that some evidence may be
available that is of such evidential force that it cannot be ignored. It may, for example, be a photograph
of an incident proving mistaken identity. It may be a combination of other items of evidence. While
what is "compelling" is a question of fact to be decided by the Hearings Committee, it is suggested
that the following are some examples of what - taken on their own - would not be "compelling":
• the opinions of spectators at the game;
• the opinions of County Committee Officials present at the game;
• an admission by another player that it was he who committed the infraction (as that
would tend to invite false admissions from weaker team members to exonerate the "star"
player).
Note, however, that the above matters may, combined with other evidence, demonstrate that the
Referee's Report contains an error." The ideas is to prevent the incident as much as record it. Dont you think the thug may think twice before throwing a punch at the ref if he is going to be recorded on camera ? Dont you think that the law can prosecute the attack easier and more successfully with video. I am not accusing you of it but there is always push back within thr GAA for any technology that makes a difference. I wonder why ? Mabe I dont it is to keep the door open on ambiguity and being able to twisting the facts to get off when that is required.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2658 - 06/09/2022 17:41:32
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Its a cultural thing in GAA.
A few lads in our club are all mouth to the referee in GAA. They play rugby all winter and never open their gob. WHY?
But there's an endemic culture of victim and blaming in Irish culture and in particular in GAA. People just can't accept that they were beaten by a better team, there has to be somebody to blame other than their own team. Look at Twitter every single Sunday and all you will see is the referee being blamed for a loss, no matter which side loses.
But the GAA have an omertha culture also, don't say anything until the media hysteria has moved on and then when they do, just ignore it as they did with Carthage Buckley, Jimmy Cooney, Martin Strudden and so on.
Even more recently when James Owens implemented the rule as he understood it, the GAA authorities response was to stand him down for a few weeks. Instead of this, they should have come out and said "James Owens implemented the rule as he understood it and we support his decision".
The referees never get backed by the GAA and in fact, they get undermined and their decisions undermined repeatedly and every manner of technicality is exploited to get players on the field for big games.
I bet plenty of posters on here spent their weekend roaring abuse at a referee over the last 72 hours.
You reap what you sow.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1127 - 06/09/2022 18:09:59
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: "GAA most certainly can for their lack of support for Refs over the years." That may well be but you can't plan for an thug coming on to pitch. No other word for a person who assaults someone.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2010 - 06/09/2022 20:33:57
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Making the rules more simple would help refs greatly and ease the supporters frustrations towards the officials….. The mark , number of steps, advantage rule and time all interpreted differently by different referees…. This leads to frustration among fans and needless abuse of the referee…
ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 1919 - 07/09/2022 10:02:48
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Replying To Saynothing: "Could attacking refs or anyone have anything to do with the way your brought up. Yes in the heat of the moment things can be shouted to refs or you get the odd scrap but attacking someone. GAA can't be blamed for madness." Agreed.
Society has become so transgressive that there's no standard left to transgress.
Its much bigger than the GAA.
That said, they still need to take formal action now.
This has to result in criminal prosecution to the full extent of the law.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 07/09/2022 10:26:15
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And still no word on any action being taken against the perpetrator or his club ....... it wouldn't surprise me if this was left sitting in limbo and then swept under the carpet.
bruffgael (Limerick) - Posts: 143 - 07/09/2022 14:03:18
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Agreed.
Society has become so transgressive that there's no standard left to transgress.
Its much bigger than the GAA.
That said, they still need to take formal action now.
This has to result in criminal prosecution to the full extent of the law." There are many factors behind someone attacking a ref and I'd agree it's certainly a societal issue too.
However, I actually think abuse of referees has reduced quite a bit over the past few decades.
When I played underage it was par for the course for every manager to roar dogs abuse at a ref, not to mention a lot of parents doing the same.
I saw incidents where a ref was hit a belt on a few occasions. These didn't make much news at the time. Camera phones and social media didn't exist of course.
At underage now, there's a much lower tolerance for anyone shouting abuse, whether that's at the ref, at players or at managers. There are of course still plenty who do, but there's much greater awareness and it does get called out.
This isn't to minimise the current issues, but just to state that in my opinion it is definitely better than it was 20+ years ago.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2038 - 07/09/2022 15:00:21
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Replying To Bon: "Who are you referring to when you say "A person's personal health sometimes has a roll to play" ?
A potential perpetrator? Genuine question." Perhaps, something along those lines.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 2907 - 07/09/2022 21:25:46
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Punishments are a joke. Why are individuals who were caught on camera physically assaulting a referee now playing club championship. There was no Punishment as far as I can see for lining up a ref and delivering a shoulder all on camera to be viewed clear as day.
Don't put your hands on the ref end of. They get enough verbal abuse now they have to be afraid for their safety and its not a new issue. I witnessed one of galways greats strike a ref , only for him to have to withdraw the complaint because of the abusive letters sent to his house by some absolutely pathetic galwegians
galwayfball (Galway) - Posts: 1678 - 08/09/2022 17:07:03
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Replying To bruffgael: "And still no word on any action being taken against the perpetrator or his club ....... it wouldn't surprise me if this was left sitting in limbo and then swept under the carpet." Roscommon CB's responce to date has been fairly pathetic. Running off to Croke Park to solve the issue when they are free to level fines and suspensions. They even tried to stop the referees from withdrawing their services last weekend. Pathetic stuff.
Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 844 - 08/09/2022 17:56:11
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Like everything else in our society, this one is cultural.
Go up to any u8 match, and there will be a parent berating a referee.
I do not like rugby and never watch it bar the 6 nations. It always amazed me, a red card is shown and some 6ft 7 beast walks off without a word.
Then, a subsequent appeal is an appeal in name only, you need to prove categorically that the decision was wrong.
In GAA, all you need to do is find a technicality of some sort, and be willing to keep appealing, to get off. The Clare players last year being the perfect example. A player using a lads back like he was chopping wood, but some nonsense technicality gets him off.
I hate 1/2 of my team mates in the club. They are moany, preachy, whingers. If they can blame a referee, they will. They never take responsibility for their role in losing a match.
How many million are spent by counties preparing teams and everything down to testing a players urine yet we can't pay a referee properly for his time?
But the GAA have always scapegoated referees and I can't think of 1 example where the GAA released a press release to say "We are backing the referees decision", can you?
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 08/09/2022 18:03:01
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