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Replying To KillingFields: "The referee can call it themselves anyway.
you keep using this phrase every charlatan and chancer at inter county level and havent yet said what types of people are chancers? Why is that??" Well get rid of them so, because a supporter of either side calling the line is a recipe for trouble.
There are chancers and charlatans involved with every team. The backroom teams of these teams is now totally excessive for a voluntary organisation. I already supplied 1 example of the new Offaly coach ("holistic view", or what it was), I will add the latest fad of rugby players becoming part of the GAA gravy train. The GAA is full of these sort of waste and the teams that win All-Irelands, these people add nothing to our games and the money they siphon out could be spent much better elsewhere. But of course, the inter county manager feels they are needed....
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1128 - 12/10/2022 10:27:28
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "Well get rid of them so, because a supporter of either side calling the line is a recipe for trouble.
There are chancers and charlatans involved with every team. The backroom teams of these teams is now totally excessive for a voluntary organisation. I already supplied 1 example of the new Offaly coach ("holistic view", or what it was), I will add the latest fad of rugby players becoming part of the GAA gravy train. The GAA is full of these sort of waste and the teams that win All-Irelands, these people add nothing to our games and the money they siphon out could be spent much better elsewhere. But of course, the inter county manager feels they are needed...." This is from today's Independent. It's only a short introductory piece, as the rest of the article is behind a paywall. But it is an example of the type of thing you are going on about.
It's ridiculous that not even Brian Cody is qualified for Kilkenny 'performance' position
Martin Breheny
Sometimes record-breaking achievements and prolonged success just aren't enough. Brian Cody scores heavily under both headings but if he were minded to apply for the recently advertised position of Performance Manager with Kilkenny GAA, he would have to be told politely that he wasn't eligible.
You might think that his long career as a player, his vast experience on the Kilkenny club scene, his 24 years as county manager, during which they enjoyed unprecedented success, and his former day job as principal teacher would leave him eminently qualified to lead Kilkenny's performance model, but not so.
Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2470 - 12/10/2022 11:41:57
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Replying To Cockney_Cat: "This is from today's Independent. It's only a short introductory piece, as the rest of the article is behind a paywall. But it is an example of the type of thing you are going on about.
It's ridiculous that not even Brian Cody is qualified for Kilkenny 'performance' position
Martin Breheny
Sometimes record-breaking achievements and prolonged success just aren't enough. Brian Cody scores heavily under both headings but if he were minded to apply for the recently advertised position of Performance Manager with Kilkenny GAA, he would have to be told politely that he wasn't eligible.
You might think that his long career as a player, his vast experience on the Kilkenny club scene, his 24 years as county manager, during which they enjoyed unprecedented success, and his former day job as principal teacher would leave him eminently qualified to lead Kilkenny's performance model, but not so." Cockney_Cat, Cody wouldn't have the buzz words nor the patience you need to be a GAA bluff bag.
The best I heard was somebody recently re-hashing the Al Pacino speech from Any Given Sunday as an inspirational speech. That film must be 20 years old now.
They lost........
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1128 - 12/10/2022 16:23:04
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So the top brass in the GAA are on their hobby horse about respecting referees. Talking about if you commit the crime you do the time (John Mullane) while they operate a system that is like a sieve, ambiguity and behind the curtain arrangements to get selective people off after commiting offences. First of all make these appeals public. Why are they not ? Wheeling, dealing and influence is why. Most appeals are not about the innocence of the offender but finding a loop hole to get them off. Make it less attractive to go down the appeals road by doubling the suspension if up held. If the GAA are not capable which seems the case of making rules that a first class student can get around then get someone who is.
This recent flavour of the day concern for referees and public behaviour is not fooling anyone while continuing to run a **** fest.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 13/10/2022 16:35:39
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Replying To Canuck: "So the top brass in the GAA are on their hobby horse about respecting referees. Talking about if you commit the crime you do the time (John Mullane) while they operate a system that is like a sieve, ambiguity and behind the curtain arrangements to get selective people off after commiting offences. First of all make these appeals public. Why are they not ? Wheeling, dealing and influence is why. Most appeals are not about the innocence of the offender but finding a loop hole to get them off. Make it less attractive to go down the appeals road by doubling the suspension if up held. If the GAA are not capable which seems the case of making rules that a first class student can get around then get someone who is.
This recent flavour of the day concern for referees and public behaviour is not fooling anyone while continuing to run a **** fest." I've been banging on about this for years. The GAA themselves choose for the detail of these appeals to remain secret. Transparency would help greatly to start addressing the issue of players getting off on ridiculous technicalities. There seems to be no appetite for it at all from HQ however.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2042 - 13/10/2022 17:27:17
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Replying To WanPintWin: "I've been banging on about this for years. The GAA themselves choose for the detail of these appeals to remain secret. Transparency would help greatly to start addressing the issue of players getting off on ridiculous technicalities. There seems to be no appetite for it at all from HQ however." 100% the biggest issue that refs have is not with players, supporters or management. It is with their own Co.Board officials. A ref in our club stood up at our meeting last week saying they get no respect whatsoever from them.
They send off a player knowing full well that he will get off if it means missing an important game and basically nearly don't want that hassle anymore and could well be giving out yellows instead of Reds to avoid those situations.
He also referees soccer games and that wink wink nudge nudge stuff does not happen there whatsoever. He could not comment on Rugby.
Paull (Wexford) - Posts: 171 - 13/10/2022 19:27:34
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the gaa needs to get rid of some of the bureaucratic bulls*** that comes with sendings off and having far too many chances to appeal decisions
Well get rid of them so, because a supporter of either side calling the line is a recipe for trouble.
There are chancers and charlatans involved with every team. The backroom teams of these teams is now totally excessive for a voluntary organisation. I already supplied 1 example of the new Offaly coach ("holistic view", or what it was), I will add the latest fad of rugby players becoming part of the GAA gravy train. The GAA is full of these sort of waste and the teams that win All-Irelands, these people add nothing to our games and the money they siphon out could be spent much better elsewhere. But of course, the inter county manager feels they are needed....
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 387 - 12/10/2022 10:27:28
Dont get rid of them. the game is better off allowing that area of game being rewarded..
The GAA may be an amateur organisation(dont think voluntary is right choice of word tbh,...) but rugby players or ex rugby players joining coaching teams isnt a fad. its getting use out of professional or former professional players to eke out 1% etc like any team in a high performance sporting environment will do.
How many people should a county or club team have then in their coaching team. max numbers then and what type of coaches/people should be in backroom teams then??
So the top brass in the GAA are on their hobby horse about respecting referees. Talking about if you commit the crime you do the time (John Mullane) while they operate a system that is like a sieve, ambiguity and behind the curtain arrangements to get selective people off after commiting offences. First of all make these appeals public. Why are they not ? Wheeling, dealing and influence is why. Most appeals are not about the innocence of the offender but finding a loop hole to get them off. Make it less attractive to go down the appeals road by doubling the suspension if up held. If the GAA are not capable which seems the case of making rules that a first class student can get around then get someone who is.
This recent flavour of the day concern for referees and public behaviour is not fooling anyone while continuing to run a **** fest.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2278 - 13/10/2022 16:35:39
when you say make appeals public what exactly do you mean?
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 13/10/2022 19:48:32
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So after this special respect the ref day can we go back to abusing the refs again?
Only in the GAA.
Lifetime bans for putting your hand on a ref with a court appearance to follow is your only man. If you end up in jail like what has happened before here in Kildare then so be it.
sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2897 - 14/10/2022 09:46:41
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Replying To sponger: "So after this special respect the ref day can we go back to abusing the refs again?
Only in the GAA.
Lifetime bans for putting your hand on a ref with a court appearance to follow is your only man. If you end up in jail like what has happened before here in Kildare then so be it." Agree 100%.
Respect day blah blah and then max 96 weeks suspension.
Joke!!
2 bucks assaulted a soccer Ref in the Midlands a few years ago.
They got an immediate life time ban full stop.
Same needed in our games instead of using every trick in the book to "get our man off".
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1419 - 14/10/2022 10:35:35
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Have to say i like the idea from Larry McCarthy that were a coach or mentor abuses the referee or official during the game something like a 20M free could be awarded (Maybe a penalty for repeat offences) that would get the eejits off the sideline pretty quickly.
I have often thought that a similar sanction for a black card would be more effective instead of sin bin give a 20 m Free and if the incident happens after the 55th minute give a penalty.
indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 112 - 14/10/2022 10:58:52
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Replying To indaknownow: "Have to say i like the idea from Larry McCarthy that were a coach or mentor abuses the referee or official during the game something like a 20M free could be awarded (Maybe a penalty for repeat offences) that would get the eejits off the sideline pretty quickly.
I have often thought that a similar sanction for a black card would be more effective instead of sin bin give a 20 m Free and if the incident happens after the 55th minute give a penalty." Maybe that would work but could make things harder for officials to deal with
Don't like black card and disagree a lot of time with giving 20m frees or penalties for infringements halfway or further down the pitch
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 14/10/2022 14:00:09
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Replying To KillingFields: "the gaa needs to get rid of some of the bureaucratic bulls*** that comes with sendings off and having far too many chances to appeal decisions
Well get rid of them so, because a supporter of either side calling the line is a recipe for trouble.
There are chancers and charlatans involved with every team. The backroom teams of these teams is now totally excessive for a voluntary organisation. I already supplied 1 example of the new Offaly coach ("holistic view", or what it was), I will add the latest fad of rugby players becoming part of the GAA gravy train. The GAA is full of these sort of waste and the teams that win All-Irelands, these people add nothing to our games and the money they siphon out could be spent much better elsewhere. But of course, the inter county manager feels they are needed....
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 387 - 12/10/2022 10:27:28
Dont get rid of them. the game is better off allowing that area of game being rewarded..
The GAA may be an amateur organisation(dont think voluntary is right choice of word tbh,...) but rugby players or ex rugby players joining coaching teams isnt a fad. its getting use out of professional or former professional players to eke out 1% etc like any team in a high performance sporting environment will do.
How many people should a county or club team have then in their coaching team. max numbers then and what type of coaches/people should be in backroom teams then??
So the top brass in the GAA are on their hobby horse about respecting referees. Talking about if you commit the crime you do the time (John Mullane) while they operate a system that is like a sieve, ambiguity and behind the curtain arrangements to get selective people off after commiting offences. First of all make these appeals public. Why are they not ? Wheeling, dealing and influence is why. Most appeals are not about the innocence of the offender but finding a loop hole to get them off. Make it less attractive to go down the appeals road by doubling the suspension if up held. If the GAA are not capable which seems the case of making rules that a first class student can get around then get someone who is.
This recent flavour of the day concern for referees and public behaviour is not fooling anyone while continuing to run a **** fest.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2278 - 13/10/2022 16:35:39
when you say make appeals public what exactly do you mean?" KillingFields every part of the process is public from the indiscretion or alleged indiscretion to the refs decision/action but the appeal is behind closed doors with at most a statement that the player is free to play or the suspension is up held. This leads to suspicion that the process is adhoc, subject to unfactual influences or at the least flawed. I doubt anyone on here believes for a second that a referee's right full action has not been over turned and they have voiced their frustration about that.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 14/10/2022 14:19:01
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Replying To indaknownow: "Have to say i like the idea from Larry McCarthy that were a coach or mentor abuses the referee or official during the game something like a 20M free could be awarded (Maybe a penalty for repeat offences) that would get the eejits off the sideline pretty quickly.
I have often thought that a similar sanction for a black card would be more effective instead of sin bin give a 20 m Free and if the incident happens after the 55th minute give a penalty." Plenty of rules in place already to cover this matter. The people in Croke Park seem to constantly go other sports to find inspiration, whether it be new rules or changes in play, i.e. the MARK.
Enforce these rules:
Category V
(i) Minor physical interference (e.g. laying a hand on, pushing, pulling or jostling) with a Referee, Umpire, Linesman or Sideline Official.
R7.2 CHAPTER 7 ENFORCEMENT OF RULES / ARBITRATION 131 (ii) Threatening language to a Referee, Umpire, Linesman or Sideline Official. (iii) Penalties:
(1) Minimum: 12 weeks Suspension in all Codes and at all Levels together with a Two-Match Suspension in the same Code and at the same Level, applicable to the next games in the same Competition, even if one or both games occur(s) in the following year's competition;
(2) Minimum on Repeat Infraction: 24 weeks Suspension in all Codes and at all Levels together with a Three-Match Suspension in the same Code and at the same Level, applicable to the next games in the same Competition, even if one or more of the games occur(s) in the following year's competition.
Category VI Striking or attempting to strike, or any type of assault on, a Referee, Umpire, Linesman or Sideline Official.
Penalties:
(1) Minimum: 48 weeks Suspension in all Codes and at all Levels, with offender's Team liable to Disqualification, where appropriate;
(2) Repeat Infraction within 96 weeks: 96 weeks Suspension in all Codes and at all Levels, with offender's Team liable to Disqualification, where appropriate.
Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 749 - 14/10/2022 17:35:48
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Replying To indaknownow: "Have to say i like the idea from Larry McCarthy that were a coach or mentor abuses the referee or official during the game something like a 20M free could be awarded (Maybe a penalty for repeat offences) that would get the eejits off the sideline pretty quickly.
I have often thought that a similar sanction for a black card would be more effective instead of sin bin give a 20 m Free and if the incident happens after the 55th minute give a penalty." It kind of sums up in away what we having steering the ship in certain areas. How about Larry McCarthy coming up with and enforcing rules that is applicable to our sports. Actually I beleive the GAA has many intelligent people and accolades as a sporting body but an under belly that wants to keep rules and procedures subjective in case an out is required.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 14/10/2022 17:39:12
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Replying To Canuck: " Replying To KillingFields: "the gaa needs to get rid of some of the bureaucratic bulls*** that comes with sendings off and having far too many chances to appeal decisions
Well get rid of them so, because a supporter of either side calling the line is a recipe for trouble.
There are chancers and charlatans involved with every team. The backroom teams of these teams is now totally excessive for a voluntary organisation. I already supplied 1 example of the new Offaly coach ("holistic view", or what it was), I will add the latest fad of rugby players becoming part of the GAA gravy train. The GAA is full of these sort of waste and the teams that win All-Irelands, these people add nothing to our games and the money they siphon out could be spent much better elsewhere. But of course, the inter county manager feels they are needed....
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 387 - 12/10/2022 10:27:28
Dont get rid of them. the game is better off allowing that area of game being rewarded..
The GAA may be an amateur organisation(dont think voluntary is right choice of word tbh,...) but rugby players or ex rugby players joining coaching teams isnt a fad. its getting use out of professional or former professional players to eke out 1% etc like any team in a high performance sporting environment will do.
How many people should a county or club team have then in their coaching team. max numbers then and what type of coaches/people should be in backroom teams then??
So the top brass in the GAA are on their hobby horse about respecting referees. Talking about if you commit the crime you do the time (John Mullane) while they operate a system that is like a sieve, ambiguity and behind the curtain arrangements to get selective people off after commiting offences. First of all make these appeals public. Why are they not ? Wheeling, dealing and influence is why. Most appeals are not about the innocence of the offender but finding a loop hole to get them off. Make it less attractive to go down the appeals road by doubling the suspension if up held. If the GAA are not capable which seems the case of making rules that a first class student can get around then get someone who is.
This recent flavour of the day concern for referees and public behaviour is not fooling anyone while continuing to run a **** fest.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2278 - 13/10/2022 16:35:39
when you say make appeals public what exactly do you mean?" KillingFields every part of the process is public from the indiscretion or alleged indiscretion to the refs decision/action but the appeal is behind closed doors with at most a statement that the player is free to play or the suspension is up held. This leads to suspicion that the process is adhoc, subject to unfactual influences or at the least flawed. I doubt anyone on here believes for a second that a referee's right full action has not been over turned and they have voiced their frustration about that."
Very few. be open and show the process and clearly explain how decisions were made and what reasoning was made to make the decision but you dont have a public appeal.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 15/10/2022 12:59:33
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Replying To KillingFields: " Replying To Canuck: "[quote=KillingFields: "the gaa needs to get rid of some of the bureaucratic bulls*** that comes with sendings off and having far too many chances to appeal decisions
Well get rid of them so, because a supporter of either side calling the line is a recipe for trouble.
There are chancers and charlatans involved with every team. The backroom teams of these teams is now totally excessive for a voluntary organisation. I already supplied 1 example of the new Offaly coach ("holistic view", or what it was), I will add the latest fad of rugby players becoming part of the GAA gravy train. The GAA is full of these sort of waste and the teams that win All-Irelands, these people add nothing to our games and the money they siphon out could be spent much better elsewhere. But of course, the inter county manager feels they are needed....
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 387 - 12/10/2022 10:27:28
Dont get rid of them. the game is better off allowing that area of game being rewarded..
The GAA may be an amateur organisation(dont think voluntary is right choice of word tbh,...) but rugby players or ex rugby players joining coaching teams isnt a fad. its getting use out of professional or former professional players to eke out 1% etc like any team in a high performance sporting environment will do.
How many people should a county or club team have then in their coaching team. max numbers then and what type of coaches/people should be in backroom teams then??
So the top brass in the GAA are on their hobby horse about respecting referees. Talking about if you commit the crime you do the time (John Mullane) while they operate a system that is like a sieve, ambiguity and behind the curtain arrangements to get selective people off after commiting offences. First of all make these appeals public. Why are they not ? Wheeling, dealing and influence is why. Most appeals are not about the innocence of the offender but finding a loop hole to get them off. Make it less attractive to go down the appeals road by doubling the suspension if up held. If the GAA are not capable which seems the case of making rules that a first class student can get around then get someone who is.
This recent flavour of the day concern for referees and public behaviour is not fooling anyone while continuing to run a **** fest.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2278 - 13/10/2022 16:35:39
when you say make appeals public what exactly do you mean?" KillingFields every part of the process is public from the indiscretion or alleged indiscretion to the refs decision/action but the appeal is behind closed doors with at most a statement that the player is free to play or the suspension is up held. This leads to suspicion that the process is adhoc, subject to unfactual influences or at the least flawed. I doubt anyone on here believes for a second that a referee's right full action has not been over turned and they have voiced their frustration about that."
Very few. be open and show the process and clearly explain how decisions were made and what reasoning was made to make the decision but you dont have a public appeal."]Have you ever seen the ref get a flake of a fist behind closed doors ? Or I will see you in the dressing room so I can attack you. Are the court room doors locked to keep out the public when an attacker on ther street is on trial ? The system with the GAA is set up to favour the abuser and water down the incident. I personally know of an incident where the ref got 27 stiches in his face and the offender got a month from GAA activity. The sususpension was up before the next game. This day of recognition for referees is a joke. Nice speeches and lip service. Then a return to the starus quo. How about spending time making rules and forming direct and concisive consequence for offenders. Yes there needs to be an appeal system that the whole precedure is publised and not just a one line statement. Anyone who does not believe that most referees decisions that are reversed are on technicalities is in denial. The odd one is a genuine mistake and should be addressed but openly.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 15/10/2022 16:12:23
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Have you ever seen the ref get a flake of a fist behind closed doors ? Or I will see you in the dressing room so I can attack you. Are the court room doors locked to keep out the public when an attacker on ther street is on trial ? The system with the GAA is set up to favour the abuser and water down the incident. I personally know of an incident where the ref got 27 stiches in his face and the offender got a month from GAA activity. The sususpension was up before the next game. This day of recognition for referees is a joke. Nice speeches and lip service. Then a return to the starus quo. How about spending time making rules and forming direct and concisive consequence for offenders. Yes there needs to be an appeal system that the whole precedure is publised and not just a one line statement. Anyone who does not believe that most referees decisions that are reversed are on technicalities is in denial. The odd one is a genuine mistake and should be addressed but openly.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2281 - 15/10/2022 16:12:23
It isnt the same as a court room even if you run things similarly to the laws.
Im a match official and have been assaulted in a game i was a coach of a team ...
A discipline meeting to decide punishment of someone shouldnt be open to anyone to attend. There is no reason to do it
Publish the reasons why the discipline committee came to decision they did about a punishment or why they chose not to punish a player for something but having an open discipline meeting isnt the answer.
I do agree the day of recognition for referees is a joke unless you actually do things to help start changing peoples attitudes towards referees.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 15/10/2022 19:30:32
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How about increasing the 96 weeks to something like 5 years ?
Add in a requirement to notify the Gardai of these incidents.
That might help ?
sponger (Wicklow) - Posts: 2897 - 15/10/2022 20:45:31
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Replying To sponger: "How about increasing the 96 weeks to something like 5 years ?
Add in a requirement to notify the Gardai of these incidents.
That might help ?" Think the gards are notified anyway. But they need witnesses prepared to testify to bring a case.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11869 - 18/10/2022 11:15:59
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Replying To KillingFields: "Have you ever seen the ref get a flake of a fist behind closed doors ? Or I will see you in the dressing room so I can attack you. Are the court room doors locked to keep out the public when an attacker on ther street is on trial ? The system with the GAA is set up to favour the abuser and water down the incident. I personally know of an incident where the ref got 27 stiches in his face and the offender got a month from GAA activity. The sususpension was up before the next game. This day of recognition for referees is a joke. Nice speeches and lip service. Then a return to the starus quo. How about spending time making rules and forming direct and concisive consequence for offenders. Yes there needs to be an appeal system that the whole precedure is publised and not just a one line statement. Anyone who does not believe that most referees decisions that are reversed are on technicalities is in denial. The odd one is a genuine mistake and should be addressed but openly.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2281 - 15/10/2022 16:12:23
It isnt the same as a court room even if you run things similarly to the laws.
Im a match official and have been assaulted in a game i was a coach of a team ...
A discipline meeting to decide punishment of someone shouldnt be open to anyone to attend. There is no reason to do it
Publish the reasons why the discipline committee came to decision they did about a punishment or why they chose not to punish a player for something but having an open discipline meeting isnt the answer.
I do agree the day of recognition for referees is a joke unless you actually do things to help start changing peoples attitudes towards referees." You are wrong. Justice should be done and be seen to be done is a basic principle. It protects both the accused and the accuser (there are the odd very rare exception).
If you look at the above example of the ref that got 27 stitches.....the poster is assuming that the person that did this only got 1 month. There was probably other things to take into account. Maybe the guy that got a month roared abuse and the ref tripped on something banging his head....... I have no idea but surely there must have been some logic to the decision.
But the lack of transparency means the guy involved is labelled as a thug even though a 1 month suspension indicates he did not cause the injury and people presume the county board pulled a stroke. This is an unsatisfactory outcome for everyone involved
The incident reported at the U10 blitz is beyond belief. If anyway true his own club should ban him for life. I've been at plenty of blitz's for that age group and see ref's letting kids hit a free again if they hit a fresh air, coaches from both teams helping opposition, no scores being kept and all hanshakes at the end and food for all teams. As it should be.
What is reported is dark ages stuff and hard to believe in this day and age. My experience of my kids at U10 & U12 has been nothing but excellent.
If an adult grabbed your 9 year old by the neck, what would you do.......... and that would then probably lead to an all out brawl. Hard to comprehend at that age. Scandalous
Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1829 - 18/10/2022 11:41:35
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