National Forum

Shane Walsh Transfer

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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  ""What's all this talk about The Parish Rule? What is a parish? Is it an administrative area defined by the Catholic Church, the Church of Ireland or some other religious church or sect? Many if not most of those who still cling to the parish rule in terms of THEIR club only attend church for weddings or funerals these days. Is Ireland not considered to be a pluralistic society these days? This is a short but interesting read https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40202792.html"

It's 2022, not 1957! Your diatribe is very out of date. The parish rule survives, not because GAA players necessarily are church-goers (some are; many aren't), but purely because it's a convenient, ready-made administrative unit which facilitates the central GAA principle that "you play where you live". That's the core principle of the GAA, and parishes are just handy. In any event, there is no other comparable and widely-understood way to administer that principle. For club purposes, townlands are too small. Counties obviously are too big.

The inference that we should reject the ready-made parish structure purely because of its source is daft, and very narrow-minded. At that rate, we should reject the county structure, as the English created it. Why not stop speaking English altogether? The reality is that such structures, regardless of who created them, have been long since been adopted by Irish people and taken to their hearts, for purposes that were never dreamt of by the people who created such structures. And that's fine.

Excellent article on the subject in the Irish News today by Cahair O'Kane. He makes 2 good suggestions: (1) Dublin city needs the parish rule too (why the inconsistency? If you e.g., live in Phibsboro, why should you be playing for a club in Foxrock (if they have one); and (2) people transferring to a Dublin club should be required to go to an intermediate Dublin club in their area first. As he notes, a club with 4,800 members and 7 adult football teams hardly needs more players. Article here: https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/08/02/news/kicking_out_walsh_has_done_no_wrong_-_but_gaa_must_deal_with_urban_lawlessness-2787959/"
You say the central GAA principle that "you play where you live" but if someone moves to Stillorgan or any area with a senior club they cant play where they live?? ...people transferring to a Dublin club should be required to go to an intermediate Dublin club in their area first

bad.monkey (USA) - Posts: 4550 - 03/08/2022 10:56:40    2435967

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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  ""What's all this talk about The Parish Rule? What is a parish? Is it an administrative area defined by the Catholic Church, the Church of Ireland or some other religious church or sect? Many if not most of those who still cling to the parish rule in terms of THEIR club only attend church for weddings or funerals these days. Is Ireland not considered to be a pluralistic society these days? This is a short but interesting read https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40202792.html"

It's 2022, not 1957! Your diatribe is very out of date. The parish rule survives, not because GAA players necessarily are church-goers (some are; many aren't), but purely because it's a convenient, ready-made administrative unit which facilitates the central GAA principle that "you play where you live". That's the core principle of the GAA, and parishes are just handy. In any event, there is no other comparable and widely-understood way to administer that principle. For club purposes, townlands are too small. Counties obviously are too big.

The inference that we should reject the ready-made parish structure purely because of its source is daft, and very narrow-minded. At that rate, we should reject the county structure, as the English created it. Why not stop speaking English altogether? The reality is that such structures, regardless of who created them, have been long since been adopted by Irish people and taken to their hearts, for purposes that were never dreamt of by the people who created such structures. And that's fine.

Excellent article on the subject in the Irish News today by Cahair O'Kane. He makes 2 good suggestions: (1) Dublin city needs the parish rule too (why the inconsistency? If you e.g., live in Phibsboro, why should you be playing for a club in Foxrock (if they have one); and (2) people transferring to a Dublin club should be required to go to an intermediate Dublin club in their area first. As he notes, a club with 4,800 members and 7 adult football teams hardly needs more players. Article here: https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/08/02/news/kicking_out_walsh_has_done_no_wrong_-_but_gaa_must_deal_with_urban_lawlessness-2787959/"
There'll never be a parish rule in Dublin. Unworkable, most parishes don't have a club, some could have 2.

Your Phibsboro example wouldn't be travelling to Foxrock to play. Imagine that journey for training on a weekday evening! They have a choice between several, fairly local clubs. Naomh Fionnbarra, OPER, Na Fianna etc.

Most in Dublin do play for their closest team but there would be a fair percentage playing for their family club, but the majority of those are still relatively local. Someone from Marino playing with Na Fianna because that's where their parents, grandparents were members for example. It's still fairly local to them even though Vincent's would be closer to them. Areas in Dublin don't have clearly defined boundaries either, which could cause issues.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13493 - 03/08/2022 11:36:06    2435977

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Has he ruled out a transfer to the dubs?"
My tuppence ha'penny worth. Why would he go to Dublin for inter county? This club transfer thing as noted by many happens quite a bit. County transfers far less so. You strike me as a poster who would have little issue with him leaving us in terms of inter county. I would certainly have an issue as we want our best players playing for our county. It strikes me this is only getting airplay because of who he is in terms of his quality with the student piece also being used to differentiate from the regular club transfer justification. Yes hard on K/C his club but I never want to see a formal inter county transfer policy. This will make elitism more elite if that is even possible.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1890 - 03/08/2022 11:52:20    2435981

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Replying To kiloughter:  "My tuppence ha'penny worth. Why would he go to Dublin for inter county? This club transfer thing as noted by many happens quite a bit. County transfers far less so. You strike me as a poster who would have little issue with him leaving us in terms of inter county. I would certainly have an issue as we want our best players playing for our county. It strikes me this is only getting airplay because of who he is in terms of his quality with the student piece also being used to differentiate from the regular club transfer justification. Yes hard on K/C his club but I never want to see a formal inter county transfer policy. This will make elitism more elite if that is even possible."
It's not that I don't have an issue with it. Of course I want him to stay, but in my opinion you simply can't support his decision to move clubs based on personal convenience and choice, while at the same time opposing an inter County transfer based on the exact same reasons.
All these people patting him on the back for doing what's right for himself would change their tune very quickly if /when he declares for Dublin.

If nothing else this episode certainly puts to bed any lingering notion that club comes before county anyways.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1273 - 03/08/2022 12:18:02    2435986

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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  ""What's all this talk about The Parish Rule? What is a parish? Is it an administrative area defined by the Catholic Church, the Church of Ireland or some other religious church or sect? Many if not most of those who still cling to the parish rule in terms of THEIR club only attend church for weddings or funerals these days. Is Ireland not considered to be a pluralistic society these days? This is a short but interesting read https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40202792.html"

It's 2022, not 1957! Your diatribe is very out of date. The parish rule survives, not because GAA players necessarily are church-goers (some are; many aren't), but purely because it's a convenient, ready-made administrative unit which facilitates the central GAA principle that "you play where you live". That's the core principle of the GAA, and parishes are just handy. In any event, there is no other comparable and widely-understood way to administer that principle. For club purposes, townlands are too small. Counties obviously are too big.

The inference that we should reject the ready-made parish structure purely because of its source is daft, and very narrow-minded. At that rate, we should reject the county structure, as the English created it. Why not stop speaking English altogether? The reality is that such structures, regardless of who created them, have been long since been adopted by Irish people and taken to their hearts, for purposes that were never dreamt of by the people who created such structures. And that's fine.

Excellent article on the subject in the Irish News today by Cahair O'Kane. He makes 2 good suggestions: (1) Dublin city needs the parish rule too (why the inconsistency? If you e.g., live in Phibsboro, why should you be playing for a club in Foxrock (if they have one); and (2) people transferring to a Dublin club should be required to go to an intermediate Dublin club in their area first. As he notes, a club with 4,800 members and 7 adult football teams hardly needs more players. Article here: https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2022/08/02/news/kicking_out_walsh_has_done_no_wrong_-_but_gaa_must_deal_with_urban_lawlessness-2787959/"
I don't get this focus on the issue being driven by urban clubs. As a Dub living outside Dublin in different counties for 40 years I have seen this parish rule being ignored by all and sundry.

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 431 - 03/08/2022 12:38:06    2435989

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Replying To totalrecall:  "What's the difference between him going to crokes and half of the inter county players gone to club football in America at the end of the genius split season????!!!"
While both are been "well" looked after by the clubs they transfer into the lads going to US will be back at their home clubs in a few weeks.

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 985 - 03/08/2022 12:40:50    2435991

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I don't see anything wrong with county hurlers or footballers making gains in any way while at the top in Gaa..if a fella gets a car fair play to him..I see a lot of lads in limerick in these sponsored cars and it doesn't cast me a thought..can I ask all those against the shane Walsh transfer this question.if he could transfer to salthill would the same noise be made about it??im just wondering or if he was working and living in cork and decided to join a cork club would it be a problem??

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 1742 - 03/08/2022 13:39:02    2436009

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Any player, as an individual, should be allowed the freedom to transfer at any time. The idea that the club can block this is absolutely outrageous.

Headhunter85 (Roscommon) - Posts: 30 - 03/08/2022 13:51:57    2436017

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Galway folk should be happier that it's to Dublin that Walsh is moving. He'll have plenty of good standard games to play to keep sharp and active. I mean, wouldn't it be far worse if he were transferring to a non-footballing county like Kildare or Kilkenny?

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1275 - 03/08/2022 14:59:35    2436031

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Replying To Headhunter85:  "Any player, as an individual, should be allowed the freedom to transfer at any time. The idea that the club can block this is absolutely outrageous."
Same for county too I assume?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1273 - 03/08/2022 15:08:20    2436032

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Galway folk should be happier that it's to Dublin that Walsh is moving. He'll have plenty of good standard games to play to keep sharp and active. I mean, wouldn't it be far worse if he were transferring to a non-footballing county like Kildare or Kilkenny?"
Kildare are a good football county in fairness but I get your sense. I would imagine there are several reasons for his desire to move.

kiloughter (Galway) - Posts: 1890 - 03/08/2022 15:42:50    2436039

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I don't see anything wrong with county hurlers or footballers making gains in any way while at the top in Gaa..if a fella gets a car fair play to him..I see a lot of lads in limerick in these sponsored cars and it doesn't cast me a thought..can I ask all those against the shane Walsh transfer this question.if he could transfer to salthill would the same noise be made about it??im just wondering or if he was working and living in cork and decided to join a cork club would it be a problem??"
This a is a complex issue with no simple answer . Even the simple question that you pose in relation to "would the same noise be made" if it was an Intra county transfer rather than an inter county one, doesn't have a simple answer. I think the answer to that question is that there would be less noise on the national media , but more noise locally as the intra county transfer would not come with the justification that the level of travel was not practical.
Now this is my personal view , any player has the right to play where he wishes provided they meet the eligibility criteria.
Loyalty is a commendable characteristic and many players decide not to transfer despite the amount of travel of involved or despite other inducements. They do this out of loyalty.
Based on this I dont think we should berate Shane or any other players decision to transfer. Rather we should be praising all the players who dont transfer out of loyalty.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 03/08/2022 15:43:23    2436040

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If it genuinely suits a persons life to transfer clubs then by all means transfer, and I don't think anyone would have a big problem with that.
Living in Dublin and travelling down does take its toll, and I think there's lads in tougher situation work wise than Shane that are still making the trips home to there clubs but its his choice.
Would winning a Dublin county title have the same achievement as winning a county title with his own club, no way would it and it wouldn't either for anyone watching he will always be the blow in but that not Shanes problem.
All the under age players in his home club, Kilkerrin - Clonberne, will lose the county player they all look up too and its massive for an intermediate club, again not Shanes problem he does have to think about himself but theres alot more to his move than he probably thinks about.

tommy132 (Mayo) - Posts: 534 - 03/08/2022 16:04:45    2436050

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I think whats feeding into this more than anything is there is a real sense in the country more than ever really of a rural v urban divide, of a big city v rural country divide and this is going to become even more of an issue in years to come. Ye see it even more now with the whole green agenda lately.

Its seen almost like another attack on rural ireland, an erosion of rural life. Heres literally the little rural parish having more taken from them by the south side dublin elite.

If this was one of the big Galway City clubs there wouldnt be as much about imho.

Im not saying thats the case, in reality Crokes havent done anything wrong here, its far more complex than that but that divide is real and its getting worse for people in rural areas.

Watch this space but within the next 20 years we will see communities struggling and gaa clubs amalgamating or ceasing to exist in many rural areas, the whole Shane Walsh transfer saga is getting caught up in that as much as anything

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1000 - 03/08/2022 16:16:25    2436053

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I don't see anything wrong with county hurlers or footballers making gains in any way while at the top in Gaa..if a fella gets a car fair play to him..I see a lot of lads in limerick in these sponsored cars and it doesn't cast me a thought..can I ask all those against the shane Walsh transfer this question.if he could transfer to salthill would the same noise be made about it??im just wondering or if he was working and living in cork and decided to join a cork club would it be a problem??"
If he transferred to Salthill, it would make less noise outside the county, but would actually be more unpopular in Galway.
Most people here understand that living and studying in Dublin, there's a legitimate reason for wanting to play for a club in Dublin.
That argument wouldn't exist if he transferred to Salthill, so it would be a deeply unpopular move within the county.
I'm from a small club and we've had numerous players transfer to Dublin clubs over the years. Lads who moved to Dublin for work and stayed there. Some were our best players, played underage for Galway. We had to get on with it.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1493 - 03/08/2022 18:37:06    2436084

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Read in today's Herald that the transfer has hit a snag due to the fact that college is not deemed permanent residency.
Now I'm sitting on the fence on the whole saga as I can see both sides of the transfer argument , but if the transfer doesn't proceed because of this its an absolute cop out by the GAA. Firstly I'm fairly certain that lots more college students have transferred in the past and to suddenly invoke this clause when its a really high profile player is embarrassing in terms of its inconsistency. I'm fairly sure that Eoin Gallagher was still a med student when he transferred to Moycullen, for example.
Secondly , if this is a rule ( the student thing) are we not penalising the more vulnerable i.e. the guys who are less likely to have cars or can afford to be travelling are being forced to travel home whereas working lads who are more likely to have a car can transfer - change this rule asap , GAA, or risk becoming a total laughing stock in society.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 444 - 03/08/2022 18:38:04    2436085

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Nothing against Walsh getting the transfer.

Don't agree with the timing of it though. This should have been done earlier in the year. He was able to commute up and down for Galway no bother.

He should see the year out with his club and then go.

UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 203 - 03/08/2022 20:32:37    2436102

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Replying To UsernameInvalid:  "Nothing against Walsh getting the transfer.

Don't agree with the timing of it though. This should have been done earlier in the year. He was able to commute up and down for Galway no bother.

He should see the year out with his club and then go."
He wasn't commuting from Dublin when playing for Galway. He's only moving to Dublin now to start college. It couldn't have been sorted earlier this year as he wasn't in Dublin.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 1493 - 04/08/2022 10:51:02    2436142

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Replying To WanPintWin:  "He wasn't commuting from Dublin when playing for Galway. He's only moving to Dublin now to start college. It couldn't have been sorted earlier this year as he wasn't in Dublin."
Then he should see the year out with his club. They are probably a couple of weeks from Championship and were planning on having him available.

Likewise, if you're a forward in Kilmacud and played all league games for them then lose your spot to a guy who has just transferred in before Championship you'd be annoyed.

UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 203 - 04/08/2022 10:57:11    2436144

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Replying To anotheralias:  "Read in today's Herald that the transfer has hit a snag due to the fact that college is not deemed permanent residency.
Now I'm sitting on the fence on the whole saga as I can see both sides of the transfer argument , but if the transfer doesn't proceed because of this its an absolute cop out by the GAA. Firstly I'm fairly certain that lots more college students have transferred in the past and to suddenly invoke this clause when its a really high profile player is embarrassing in terms of its inconsistency. I'm fairly sure that Eoin Gallagher was still a med student when he transferred to Moycullen, for example.
Secondly , if this is a rule ( the student thing) are we not penalising the more vulnerable i.e. the guys who are less likely to have cars or can afford to be travelling are being forced to travel home whereas working lads who are more likely to have a car can transfer - change this rule asap , GAA, or risk becoming a total laughing stock in society."
As far as I know students were allowed to play county championship football with the colleges in which they were studying. They were also allowed at the same time play county championship with their own clubs. Niall McNamee and Shane Lennon did that in 2006 with UCD. UCD won the championship in Dublin that year and Rhode won the championship in Offaly. UCD and Rhode played each other in that year's Leinster club semi final which Rhode won by a point. Niall McNamee played for Rhode against UCD that day. As for the GAA " becoming a total laughing stock in society" would you catch yourself on. Hyperbole at it's finest.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5802 - 04/08/2022 11:06:11    2436147

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