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Munster Hurling Bias

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I want to start with...what a great game of hurling yesterday... I loved every second of it.. heart stopping stuff from start to finish... 100% definitely the best 2 teams in the final.. but I have to say why are we make to accept the total Munster bias when it comes to hurling... First of all Colm Lyons should've gotten the gig.. I think its fair to say he had one of his worst years.. and then was rewarded with the all ireland final....ha ha.. Kilkenny had to feel hard done by with no 50 50 calls going their way.. I had John Mullane on the radio aswell and he was scratching his head over some of his decisions that went to Limerick. And then to top it all all.. Rte Sunday game gave kilkenny and Clare 3 players on the team of the year.. what a joke. Clare got found out when they went outside of a poor Munster championship (the MF was great but no referee was present on the day) Kilkenny anhiliated Clare but were deemed equals in the eyes of what is becoming a Joke of a Sunday game

TomWex (Wexford) - Posts: 63 - 18/07/2022 13:16:10    2432700

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Replying To TomWex:  "I want to start with...what a great game of hurling yesterday... I loved every second of it.. heart stopping stuff from start to finish... 100% definitely the best 2 teams in the final.. but I have to say why are we make to accept the total Munster bias when it comes to hurling... First of all Colm Lyons should've gotten the gig.. I think its fair to say he had one of his worst years.. and then was rewarded with the all ireland final....ha ha.. Kilkenny had to feel hard done by with no 50 50 calls going their way.. I had John Mullane on the radio aswell and he was scratching his head over some of his decisions that went to Limerick. And then to top it all all.. Rte Sunday game gave kilkenny and Clare 3 players on the team of the year.. what a joke. Clare got found out when they went outside of a poor Munster championship (the MF was great but no referee was present on the day) Kilkenny anhiliated Clare but were deemed equals in the eyes of what is becoming a Joke of a Sunday game"
Embarrassingly bitter and incorrect post. Look at the records for All Ireland wins between the provinces. Compare the stats. Munster have about 30 more wins.
I'm a great fan of Leinster hurling but Kilkenny could do the whole round Robin in Leinster with 13 players and still finish in the top 3. Kilkenny did brilliant yesterday ,fair play to them but it was a minor miracle they didn't lose by 10. Iv watched the match back. The ref missed a fee frees for both sides. So what. And to be honest the Munster final was a better game. More physical. I think Leinster people prefer a less physical game in general. Outside of Kilkenny that is...Kilkenny don't whine like the rest of the province.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 18/07/2022 15:06:12    2432744

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Always get wary of a poster with a handful of posts, and maybe I'm biting here too bloodyban. After Rockies embarrasing login to the burner account! The poster might not even be from Wexford.
People need to give over about the referee. Everybody has a different opinion in hurling about what constitutes a free. If a defender stands a player up, and 2-3 more get in around him and the player falls to the ground, that is NOT a free.
Even in the Wexford Clare match, I thought a few went against Wexford and felt I could be neutral enough to say they were in the "seen them given" category. But every match has these.
The problem in GAA is, every tom dick and harry has a smart phone and Twitter referees want to referee the match from their couch armed with their phone.
I will disagree with you on one thing bloodyban, I think Leinster hurling is more physical than Munster. I think defending is much more of an art in Leinster than in Munster, but the art of scoring is much more of an art in Munster.
I do however disagree with you about counties whining, and there was a famous incident in the 96 All-Ireland which Limerick people complained about for 20 years. Its easy to not whinge when you are winning.

Actually, I can't even think what you are alluding to when you talk about the rest of the province whining?

If the Munster counties don't like that Kilkenny can get out of Leinster easier, then initiate a conversation about a round robin or alternative. To be fair, the 2 provinces went to form this year.
1. Kilkenny and Limerick, closely matched.
2. Limerick and Galway, closely matched
3. Wexford and Clare, closely matched.
4. Galway and Cork, closely matched.

It doesn't matter what went before it, when it gets to knock out is when it matters.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1136 - 18/07/2022 16:27:49    2432775

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Kilkenny were a bad Wexford result v Westmeath away from not even making the Leinster final. As Galway learned a few years ago, its not always as easy to get out of Leinster as it seems even if it is 3 from 4.....

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1736 - 18/07/2022 16:47:52    2432782

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Replying To TomWex:  "I want to start with...what a great game of hurling yesterday... I loved every second of it.. heart stopping stuff from start to finish... 100% definitely the best 2 teams in the final.. but I have to say why are we make to accept the total Munster bias when it comes to hurling... First of all Colm Lyons should've gotten the gig.. I think its fair to say he had one of his worst years.. and then was rewarded with the all ireland final....ha ha.. Kilkenny had to feel hard done by with no 50 50 calls going their way.. I had John Mullane on the radio aswell and he was scratching his head over some of his decisions that went to Limerick. And then to top it all all.. Rte Sunday game gave kilkenny and Clare 3 players on the team of the year.. what a joke. Clare got found out when they went outside of a poor Munster championship (the MF was great but no referee was present on the day) Kilkenny anhiliated Clare but were deemed equals in the eyes of what is becoming a Joke of a Sunday game"
Sure Kilkenny had been beaten twice before they even got out of leinster

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 1913 - 18/07/2022 17:35:27    2432798

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There is enough nonsense going around to fill a barrel. If you judge your hurling on where you live then the rosey tinted glasses are fogged up as well. Kilkenny, Wexford and yes Offaly to a lesser extent at the moment are hurling counties. Westmeath, Laois and others are doing their best to get up there. Just because of the competitiveness of five counties out of six in Munster who have to battle it out against each other to get to the ALL-Ireland series, does not make me biased towards Leinster. Just deal with facts past and present. Galway has brought more competitiveness. Kilkenny have take out the best of Munster and won over and over. We will never know if it is the format that contributed to that but if we want to find out going forward, change it. I doubt the Cats, Wexford and Galway would disappear into oblivion.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 18/07/2022 19:14:14    2432812

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Embarrassingly bitter and incorrect post. Look at the records for All Ireland wins between the provinces. Compare the stats. Munster have about 30 more wins.
I'm a great fan of Leinster hurling but Kilkenny could do the whole round Robin in Leinster with 13 players and still finish in the top 3. Kilkenny did brilliant yesterday ,fair play to them but it was a minor miracle they didn't lose by 10. Iv watched the match back. The ref missed a fee frees for both sides. So what. And to be honest the Munster final was a better game. More physical. I think Leinster people prefer a less physical game in general. Outside of Kilkenny that is...Kilkenny don't whine like the rest of the province."
Missed my point completely...

TomWex (Wexford) - Posts: 63 - 18/07/2022 21:43:30    2432827

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Replying To bloodyban:  "Embarrassingly bitter and incorrect post. Look at the records for All Ireland wins between the provinces. Compare the stats. Munster have about 30 more wins.
I'm a great fan of Leinster hurling but Kilkenny could do the whole round Robin in Leinster with 13 players and still finish in the top 3. Kilkenny did brilliant yesterday ,fair play to them but it was a minor miracle they didn't lose by 10. Iv watched the match back. The ref missed a fee frees for both sides. So what. And to be honest the Munster final was a better game. More physical. I think Leinster people prefer a less physical game in general. Outside of Kilkenny that is...Kilkenny don't whine like the rest of the province."
There was never any whining out of Wexford about any other teams physicality. Or Dublin or Galway or Westmeath or Laois.
Munster have 30 more wins because 2 of the strongest 3 hurling counties are in Munster.
And as regards physicality Leinster was much more physical this year. Outside of the 2 games you had against Clare and Waterfords 1st half against you the rest of the games were like challenge matches compared to the 2 Galway v Kilkenny games, the 2nd half of our game against Galway, our game against Dublin and our game against Kilkenny. The 1st halves of Dublin v Galway and Dublin v Kilkenny were also hard fought. And Westmeath fought hard in their games against us and Kilkenny. I'm guessing you didn't actually watch any Leinster championship games this year.
The 2 games on the last weekend of the Munster championship were particularly bad, with only Clare, who were the only county with nothing to play for, looking interested in applying any pressure on the lad with the ball. Tipp and Cork largely looked disinterested in any kind of fight, except perhaps Corks game against Waterford although Waterford were pretty feeble that day, and whatever Cahill did to Waterford after the League final knocked the stuffing out of them.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12008 - 19/07/2022 11:10:32    2432881

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Replying To TomWex:  "Missed my point completely..."
I think he did. The bias you are talking about is TSG. Or RTE. who plenty of Clare people are not happy with either. No mention of how well Lohan had them playing despite being unbeaten in the Munster Round Robin. I don't think it's a Munster bias. I think they are big mens men. The big 3 got plenty of coverage despite Cork and Tipp being very poor all championship. They tried to big up the Cork Tipp game which for me was summed up by Darragh Fitzgibbon s goal. My eldest is under 11. You don't see lads given the space that Fitzgibbon got at u11 level never mind an intercounty challenge game.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12008 - 19/07/2022 11:18:36    2432886

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Tom....Clare brought Limerick to a draw twice which is twice more than any other team from Leinster did or Munster for that matter. Your point is flawed re Clare as Im sure you know anyway.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 693 - 19/07/2022 11:42:19    2432896

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Replying To TomWex:  "I want to start with...what a great game of hurling yesterday... I loved every second of it.. heart stopping stuff from start to finish... 100% definitely the best 2 teams in the final.. but I have to say why are we make to accept the total Munster bias when it comes to hurling... First of all Colm Lyons should've gotten the gig.. I think its fair to say he had one of his worst years.. and then was rewarded with the all ireland final....ha ha.. Kilkenny had to feel hard done by with no 50 50 calls going their way.. I had John Mullane on the radio aswell and he was scratching his head over some of his decisions that went to Limerick. And then to top it all all.. Rte Sunday game gave kilkenny and Clare 3 players on the team of the year.. what a joke. Clare got found out when they went outside of a poor Munster championship (the MF was great but no referee was present on the day) Kilkenny anhiliated Clare but were deemed equals in the eyes of what is becoming a Joke of a Sunday game"
You're embarrassing yourself. The Munster championship as a whole was poor this year…no one is denying that so I don't know what your point is. The Clare limerick games were every bit as enjoyable as the all Ireland.
The Leinster final had very little excitement with very few scores from either forward line. There's no denying that either. There's a few leinster supporters here and a few past players who go out of their way to get a dig at the Munster championship. It generates the most debate and all 5 counties have either won or been in multiple all Irelands the past 10 years. Very few predicted the 3 who would come out this year which also generates more media attention in a way.
The team of the year is based on individual performaces not on the team performances. While I don't think Clare will get 3 they do probably deserve two based on the fact the ridiculous scores the two lads ran up and ran up against limerick too.
They also beat a wexford team who beat Kk in nowlan park in a game that could have seen Kk out of the cship. So it's incorrect to say they were found out. They contributed more to a championship than most counties did. I thought we struggled to get too many exciting games this year but thankfully we finished on a high with leinster and Munster champions both represented and thankfully gave us a great final.
You're just talking plain nonsense to be honest.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 19/07/2022 12:30:56    2432913

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Personally I take no notice who is picked on these teams of the year or All-Stars and if a Waterford player ever gets mentioned. They are through the lens of the beholders. However it does show how they work when you see Hutchison's scoring and don't even enter the conversation. 6 points from play in a horrible performance against Clare. So any thing before the All-Ireland series or league win means nothing. So be it but call it what it is. The All-Ireland series all stars. Like I said it makes no difference anyway and neither does it who is on rte's panel or any other broadcast.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 19/07/2022 14:03:31    2432936

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This type of debate does drive me bananas. It is so tedious. All it takes is a good Munster match, or a bad Leinster match, for this type of useless debate to ignite.
Neither provincial championship was good this year. A good Munster final, or a good match between Wexford and Kilkenny or Kilkenny and Galway does not mask this fact.
I have advocated for a knock-out provincial championship and a condensed league and then 2 x groups of 5-6 teams with relegation and promotion from Joe McD cup. If people aren't happy that 3 x Leinster counties have an easier ride in to the knock-out stages then tough s**t start talking alternatives other than nonsense that suits themselves.

At some point, the GAA need to figure out if hurling is to be a closed shop or if they want the game to develop in to new counties. The reason there is no appetite is opportunities for the game to prosper are so poor.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1136 - 19/07/2022 14:30:23    2432946

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Replying To tiobraid:  "You're embarrassing yourself. The Munster championship as a whole was poor this year…no one is denying that so I don't know what your point is. The Clare limerick games were every bit as enjoyable as the all Ireland.
The Leinster final had very little excitement with very few scores from either forward line. There's no denying that either. There's a few leinster supporters here and a few past players who go out of their way to get a dig at the Munster championship. It generates the most debate and all 5 counties have either won or been in multiple all Irelands the past 10 years. Very few predicted the 3 who would come out this year which also generates more media attention in a way.
The team of the year is based on individual performaces not on the team performances. While I don't think Clare will get 3 they do probably deserve two based on the fact the ridiculous scores the two lads ran up and ran up against limerick too.
They also beat a wexford team who beat Kk in nowlan park in a game that could have seen Kk out of the cship. So it's incorrect to say they were found out. They contributed more to a championship than most counties did. I thought we struggled to get too many exciting games this year but thankfully we finished on a high with leinster and Munster champions both represented and thankfully gave us a great final.
You're just talking plain nonsense to be honest."
Oh dear... read my post again.. my point/points are Leinster hurling teams are TREATED differently to Munster hurling teams .. be it referees or broadcasters or whaterver board are responsible for scheduling, League table configuratios etc.

TomWex (Wexford) - Posts: 63 - 19/07/2022 18:02:47    2433001

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "This type of debate does drive me bananas. It is so tedious. All it takes is a good Munster match, or a bad Leinster match, for this type of useless debate to ignite.
Neither provincial championship was good this year. A good Munster final, or a good match between Wexford and Kilkenny or Kilkenny and Galway does not mask this fact.
I have advocated for a knock-out provincial championship and a condensed league and then 2 x groups of 5-6 teams with relegation and promotion from Joe McD cup. If people aren't happy that 3 x Leinster counties have an easier ride in to the knock-out stages then tough s**t start talking alternatives other than nonsense that suits themselves.

At some point, the GAA need to figure out if hurling is to be a closed shop or if they want the game to develop in to new counties. The reason there is no appetite is opportunities for the game to prosper are so poor."
Very well put.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2665 - 19/07/2022 21:33:41    2433025

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "This type of debate does drive me bananas. It is so tedious. All it takes is a good Munster match, or a bad Leinster match, for this type of useless debate to ignite.
Neither provincial championship was good this year. A good Munster final, or a good match between Wexford and Kilkenny or Kilkenny and Galway does not mask this fact.
I have advocated for a knock-out provincial championship and a condensed league and then 2 x groups of 5-6 teams with relegation and promotion from Joe McD cup. If people aren't happy that 3 x Leinster counties have an easier ride in to the knock-out stages then tough s**t start talking alternatives other than nonsense that suits themselves.

At some point, the GAA need to figure out if hurling is to be a closed shop or if they want the game to develop in to new counties. The reason there is no appetite is opportunities for the game to prosper are so poor."
Why is there this fascination with having any League part to the Championship at all? We already have a League. Championship should be about the luck of the draw and knockout hurling. Much more exciting! And solves the fixture congestion and player burnout issues also. If there is a demand for more games then have the Provincials straight knockout then an open draw for the best 14 teams for the AI series. With the provincial finalists getting a bye to the QFs.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12008 - 20/07/2022 12:49:58    2433112

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Replying To Viking66:  "Why is there this fascination with having any League part to the Championship at all? We already have a League. Championship should be about the luck of the draw and knockout hurling. Much more exciting! And solves the fixture congestion and player burnout issues also. If there is a demand for more games then have the Provincials straight knockout then an open draw for the best 14 teams for the AI series. With the provincial finalists getting a bye to the QFs."
That should read provincial winners get a bye to the AIQFs

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12008 - 20/07/2022 16:38:56    2433204

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Replying To Viking66:  "Why is there this fascination with having any League part to the Championship at all? We already have a League. Championship should be about the luck of the draw and knockout hurling. Much more exciting! And solves the fixture congestion and player burnout issues also. If there is a demand for more games then have the Provincials straight knockout then an open draw for the best 14 teams for the AI series. With the provincial finalists getting a bye to the QFs."
I didn't add but I was proposing the league be curtailed to groups of 4, which gives developing teams a chance to play the top counties.
Don't agree about straight knock-out Viking. I look back now at the 80s/90s and for the 1 year us or Wexford beat Kilkenny or Offaly, they won 9.
3 rounds of league to warm-up, knock-out provincial, then 2 groups of 6, seeded based on provincial. That's about 10 county matches a year plus if you get to the knock-out. A reasonable number and most players I know much rather matches than training.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1136 - 20/07/2022 17:47:42    2433231

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I didn't add but I was proposing the league be curtailed to groups of 4, which gives developing teams a chance to play the top counties.
Don't agree about straight knock-out Viking. I look back now at the 80s/90s and for the 1 year us or Wexford beat Kilkenny or Offaly, they won 9.
3 rounds of league to warm-up, knock-out provincial, then 2 groups of 6, seeded based on provincial. That's about 10 county matches a year plus if you get to the knock-out. A reasonable number and most players I know much rather matches than training."
Is that not reducing the Championship to just another League? That system will surely benefit the bigger counties with more adult hurlers in the long run. Galway have the most hurlers outside of the big 3 and 1 AI. Followed by Limerick. Who just happened to get another golden generation. Clare had a golden generation who won the AI in 2013. ALL THE OTHER AIs since the 90s ended have been won by 1 of the big 3.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12008 - 21/07/2022 10:30:15    2433286

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Replying To TomWex:  "Oh dear... read my post again.. my point/points are Leinster hurling teams are TREATED differently to Munster hurling teams .. be it referees or broadcasters or whaterver board are responsible for scheduling, League table configuratios etc."
Where Leinster teams treated differently by Referees?

Oldtourman (Limerick) - Posts: 4331 - 21/07/2022 12:16:01    2433333

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