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Replying To Canuck: "I think it is a little bit ingenuous complaining about the review time. Do we want that process to make a mistake as well ? In the NHL sometimes the refs are contacted straight away and other times it takes longer because it is more difficult and needs several looks and the review is in Toronto with the game maybe in California. Surly they are not looking at every score when you see the goal tender jumping up and the ball going straight over his stick and the black spot. Play is stopped when the umpire calls for the review. Do the same when the hawk eye monitor wants to review. You can't have it several ways. Wanting the right decision. Not stopping play (that already occurs) and complaining about the time it took. The right decisions were made on Sunday but I think some don't want the right decision when it is not to their advantage. Typical. The Galway point should have being called back because it was not a point. Get it ? A wide and if it took till half time to change it so be it." The decision was absolutely correct. However, it shouldn't have taken over 3 minutes to be made. I couldn't care less whether it was Galway or any other team involved. We need to be using the technology effectively. I made a similar point about the Hawkeye malfunction and ambiguity during the U20 hurling final. Hawkeye is designed not to take 3 minutes to tell whether a ball was wide or not. It usually makes the decision quite quickly. It doesn't involve lads watching numerous replays of a shot and having to decide. Coming to the right decision much later is a problem. If it happens late in a game, it can actually dictate what a team does beforehand. A team might think they only need a point instead of a goal. That kind of scenario would lead to uproar. The technology seems to be fine. It's the application of it which needs to improve. At the risk of beating the same drum, a bit of transparency from the GAA would help too. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 05/07/2022 19:20:22 2429969 Link
Replying To arock: "But it is ridiculous to allow play to continue while at a stroke, everything that subsequently happens can get chalked off because a score is retrospectively awarded. What if a player is sent off? A goal scored? Nay never happened, crazy. Same to a degree with Soccer its crazy." That didn't happen on Sunday though, Arock. Play went on for a few minutes, I think Limerick scored a point in the interim, then Hawkeye informed the ref that the last Galway point needed to be chalked off, and the scoreboard was amended. Presumably same would have happened if it was a Galway wide being upgraded to a point. The intervening 2 or 3 minutes of play still counted, it wasn't deemed null and void. Where serious controversy could easily arise though is if Hawkeye got into a ref's ear about a wrong score AFTER the final whistle! ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1256 - 05/07/2022 21:02:33 2429987 Link
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "The system works. Hawkeye is only required occasionally. Although there happened to be a lot of chances yesterday that were very close to the posts position. Let the umpires call it as they see. If they're not sure, let them call hawkeye immediately, but even if they get it wrong (which is very rare) it can still work like it did yesterday. better that than missing it and making the wrong decision. It is only the backup when required. Use it when they need, or it'll alert when you're wrong. it's doing exactly what it should" Hawkeye analysis every score regardless. Therefore the refs can be notified 2/3 minutes after a score if there's a doubt. It's not just used when asked for. It's used for all scores. Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 06/07/2022 09:59:47 2430010 Link
Replying To Breffni1969: "Hawkeye analysis every score regardless. Therefore the refs can be notified 2/3 minutes after a score if there's a doubt. It's not just used when asked for. It's used for all scores." So does this mean that the final whistle can in theory be overruled ? If the system finds that one of the points was wide after the final whistle making the game a draw, what happens then? Have we a cooling off period after the final whistle untill hawk gives the all clear? Like a boxing match when they go to the score cards? ecad123 (Galway) - Posts: 272 - 06/07/2022 11:19:47 2430043 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: "I mentioned in a previous post, it costs about €7k a game to use Hawkeye." 7 grand for Hawkeye, costs nothing for umpires to stand in a better position and open their eyes. Forget about Hawkeye after play has resumed and let teams have 3 challenges at time of play. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 06/07/2022 11:28:02 2430046 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: "I mentioned in a previous post, it costs about €7k a game to use Hawkeye." That's a lot! You'd think that sort of tech would be cheap enough nowadays points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 275 - 06/07/2022 11:55:58 2430059 Link
Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet: "That's a lot! You'd think that sort of tech would be cheap enough nowadays" 7K is cheap for cameras, computers, software, setup, calibration and techs. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 06/07/2022 12:32:29 2430068 Link
Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet: "That's a lot! You'd think that sort of tech would be cheap enough nowadays" I forgot to mention, Hawkeye costs around €200k to install. Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2654 - 06/07/2022 12:54:34 2430075 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: "I forgot to mention, Hawkeye costs around €200k to install." Ah right. My bad. You're saying 7K a day to run a Hawkeye system installed already. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 06/07/2022 13:04:16 2430078 Link
Replying To WanPintWin: "The decision was absolutely correct. However, it shouldn't have taken over 3 minutes to be made. I couldn't care less whether it was Galway or any other team involved. We need to be using the technology effectively. I made a similar point about the Hawkeye malfunction and ambiguity during the U20 hurling final. Hawkeye is designed not to take 3 minutes to tell whether a ball was wide or not. It usually makes the decision quite quickly. It doesn't involve lads watching numerous replays of a shot and having to decide. Coming to the right decision much later is a problem. If it happens late in a game, it can actually dictate what a team does beforehand. A team might think they only need a point instead of a goal. That kind of scenario would lead to uproar. The technology seems to be fine. It's the application of it which needs to improve. At the risk of beating the same drum, a bit of transparency from the GAA would help too." Agree it would be better if the decision came quicker. I also would believe it was outdated the day it was installed and don't know what upgrades have been done if any. This as you said is a lack of transparency by the GAA like many other things like appeals etc. There are many forms of technology that do much more sophisticated detection than this. Until perfected unfortunately play will need to be held up as is when the on field officials call for a review. Or using a time clock, play goes back to where the incident occurred. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water but we seem unable to learn or too stubborn to learn from others. Some want to go backwards or not forward with the use of umpires to detect a ball travelling much quicker. Complain about time delays while the goalie can't restart the game every time there is a score because the ref has to write the score in his note book. Make the scoring and time keeping electronic also taking it out of the hands of the ref. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 06/07/2022 14:08:08 2430094 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "Ah right. My bad. You're saying 7K a day to run a Hawkeye system installed already." Yes. "Estimates suggest HawkEye at Croke Park costs between €7,000 and €8,000 per match-day" link Cockney_Cat (UK) - Posts: 2654 - 06/07/2022 14:35:41 2430103 Link
Replying To ecad123: "So does this mean that the final whistle can in theory be overruled ? If the system finds that one of the points was wide after the final whistle making the game a draw, what happens then? Have we a cooling off period after the final whistle untill hawk gives the all clear? Like a boxing match when they go to the score cards?" Don't know the answer to that . All I know is it verifies every score whether the ref or umpires call it or not. It suppose to take a minute but last Sunday was 2/3 minutes Breffni1969 (Cavan) - Posts: 510 - 06/07/2022 15:00:59 2430113 Link
Replying To Breffni1969: "Don't know the answer to that . All I know is it verifies every score whether the ref or umpires call it or not. It suppose to take a minute but last Sunday was 2/3 minutes" Last Sunday was over 3 minutes. Not a problem as such in the 1st half, but it could cause serious issues if it was late in the game. Decision-making at the end of a game is often based on the score at the time. E.g. You take a point from a last minute 21 yard free, as the scoreboard says you're a point behind. Shortly afterwards, Hawkeye chalks off a point scored a few minutes beforehand, and all of a sudden you're still a point behind. There's no reason whatsoever it should take over 3 minutes. The issue here is clearly the application. WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 06/07/2022 15:39:53 2430123 Link
Replying To Canuck: "Agree it would be better if the decision came quicker. I also would believe it was outdated the day it was installed and don't know what upgrades have been done if any. This as you said is a lack of transparency by the GAA like many other things like appeals etc. There are many forms of technology that do much more sophisticated detection than this. Until perfected unfortunately play will need to be held up as is when the on field officials call for a review. Or using a time clock, play goes back to where the incident occurred. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water but we seem unable to learn or too stubborn to learn from others. Some want to go backwards or not forward with the use of umpires to detect a ball travelling much quicker. Complain about time delays while the goalie can't restart the game every time there is a score because the ref has to write the score in his note book. Make the scoring and time keeping electronic also taking it out of the hands of the ref." Similar vision system technology used in industry and autonomous cars where it can be vital. Might be an old fashioned view but I'm not sure the growth in use of technology is a good thing in the GAA. Video paralysis by analysis, using data to improve S&C from GPS etc, breaking down the percentages into how not to lose, maximising kickouts, winning frees in the scoring zone. Possibly the skills of the games aren't as important as they used to be and some coaches talk a good 2022 but coaching was better 30 years ago. GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7651 - 06/07/2022 15:41:33 2430125 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "Similar vision system technology used in industry and autonomous cars where it can be vital. Might be an old fashioned view but I'm not sure the growth in use of technology is a good thing in the GAA. Video paralysis by analysis, using data to improve S&C from GPS etc, breaking down the percentages into how not to lose, maximising kickouts, winning frees in the scoring zone. Possibly the skills of the games aren't as important as they used to be and some coaches talk a good 2022 but coaching was better 30 years ago." I agree up to a point. Especially the later point about analysis. Some stats to me are irrelevant. How many touches and the length on the ball. Does it matter if he touched it only twice but put it in the back of the net. I cringe now when I see hockey players and baseball players with tablets now on the bench looking at the last play. However technology is useful to get on field decisions and scores correct. Informing the spectator and so far as is possible creating opportunity for equal fairness to both teams. That can never be perfect but at least use what is now available. Like you know horses ploughed the fields successfully but how many would use them now and ignore tractors. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2866 - 06/07/2022 16:29:33 2430147 Link
Replying To Cockney_Cat: "I mentioned in a previous post, it costs about €7k a game to use Hawkeye." You can not be serious. Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2150 - 09/07/2022 18:34:16 2430743 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "Similar vision system technology used in industry and autonomous cars where it can be vital. Might be an old fashioned view but I'm not sure the growth in use of technology is a good thing in the GAA. Video paralysis by analysis, using data to improve S&C from GPS etc, breaking down the percentages into how not to lose, maximising kickouts, winning frees in the scoring zone. Possibly the skills of the games aren't as important as they used to be and some coaches talk a good 2022 but coaching was better 30 years ago." You make a lot of sense GreenandRed. thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 09/07/2022 19:03:41 2430766 Link
Replying To GreenandRed: "The rugby TMO is a fourth official adjudicating on incidents based on different camera angles in a slower game than gaelic football or hurling. Their decision is open to interpretation. Hawkeye is a computerised system which gives an instantaneous judgement whether a ball has passed between the posts or not. If it's set up correctly it should never be wrong. I wonder though if it's the grey area where refs have different interpretations of the rules, some might be reluctant to listen to Hawkeye decisions if it questions their calls." For both finals. Should have 3 umpires. 1 standing directly behind the goal Newyorkkat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 157 - 09/07/2022 19:29:55 2430795 Link
Replying To ecad123: "I think something needs to change, either we take away the the waving of the flags from the umpires (no point as they will be overruled anyway) or hawk Eye is only used when called for by the umpires and cannot overruled them once they wave the flag. Yesterday the umpire waved the white flag to give Galway the score approximately 5 minutes later we then went to hawk to confirm it was wide (we did not know what was going on). If this happened in a one point game and let's say the game finishes with Galway one point up and two minutes after hawk Eye states that one of Galway's points was wide? Is the referees decision final?" Cork lost to Galway by one point in hurling this year. We should examine Hawkeye and request replay. In fact, all games since Hawkeye was introduced can be looked at ! Lucky it's an amateur game or there would be lawsuits galore against Hawkeye and GAA! Am joking… but it is a joke Rockies (Cork) - Posts: 947 - 09/07/2022 19:57:03 2430817 Link
Was it just me or was the Glass point for Derry in the first half and ruled out by hawkeye dodgy as well? How can hawkeye show the ball hitting the post when the ball clearly doesn't hit the post? MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 999 - 09/07/2022 20:04:32 2430823 Link