National Forum

Dublin V Kerry

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Replying To anotheralias:  "Yes Dublin will be back and will be very strong.
I was very skeptical about Dublin before yesterday , poor League campaign and although Championship was decent they had played no strong team and all the teams they did play looked like they were beaten before the start.
But yesterday Dublin were really really good against an excellent Kerry team , and it would NOT have been a travesty of justice were the Dubs to have won that game.
Dublin will breeze through Division 2 next year and be serious serious contenders to reclaim SAM in 2023."
I don't agree… I think this Dublin team are finished.. Cooper , Rock and Mc Carthy may not be seen again.. they are seriously weak on the bench … their forwards are particularly weak … apart from Kilkenny not one of yesterday's starting 6 would get near the Kerry team…. they went for one big push yesterday and it nearly paid off but if the penalty had been scored Kerry might have won by 9/10 pulling up… All the worse for Galway in the final that Kerry were put to the pin of their collar to get over the line… A monkey off their backs and now they will be seriously focusing on the final where if they establish a lead like yesterday they will really put Galway to the sword…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3845 - 11/07/2022 12:57:08    2431360

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "I've never called any county's AI success tainted. Have another read there, you might have better luck at the second swing."
"Usually happens when they don't have a handy path to an AI.",

What are you saying here then?

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1625 - 11/07/2022 12:58:44    2431361

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Replying To oneoff:  "But it does though. In the last 20 years there's been few sorer losers than Tyrone. You'll of course disagree with that and it's not every Tyrone fan. But I suppose it's anti Ulster to say that...."
What's your evidence for saying that? We don't get to too many finals anyway, so not sure what you're on about there.

In general though, a good loser tends to remain a loser. Mayo fans - in my experience (I was at the 04 and 06 finals) - are good losers. Kerry fans are bad losers (remember P O'Sé's infamous "animals" comment), and will blame the selector etc if things don't go well for them.

And, tbh, that's a positive. Anyone who is easy-going about losing, who isn't devastated and hurt and annoyed by it, will likely be a loser forever. It's why apparently Roy Keane attacked a fellow player when he heard him laughing in the dressing room after a defeat. Reasoning, correctly, that if he was in good humour, he hadn't been trying hard enough during the match.

My perception is that we're somewhere in between Kerry and Mayo - less tolerant of defeat than Mayo fans, but not as intolerant as Kerry fans. And, contrary to the rationale in your jibe, it'd do us all no harm if we were more, not less, intolerant of losing.

points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 293 - 11/07/2022 13:32:41    2431375

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Replying To Ned_Stormcrow:  "Dublin have now failed to make the All Ireland final for two years in a row.

What is the solution to this crisis? Surely it is time for the GAA to step in and give them a massive cash injection?"
And how did ye get on?

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2320 - 11/07/2022 13:40:24    2431377

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Replying To SaffronDon:  "I've never called any county's AI success tainted. Have another read there, you might have better luck at the second swing."
Who are all these mythical Ulster folk saying that other counties' wins are tainted? Not me, that's for sure. Winning anything is never easy.

Although, just to remind you, there was a widespread narrative that Tyrone's win last year was tainted and that Kerry had somehow been tricked (in a thunderous game which they only lost by a point!) and that Mayo had "left it behind them" - widespread Southern narrative; e.g. here in the Examiner:

" ... so much of what they [Mayo] did on the biggest of days fell below their expectations and abilities ..."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40696295.html

That is, Mayo inexplicably played below themselves. Any begrudging narrative will do, so long as it serves to diminish the achievement of a winning Northern team. The idea that Tyrone may just have been better on the day is not even up for consideration.

points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet (Tyrone) - Posts: 293 - 11/07/2022 13:43:02    2431380

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No AI is tainted. All are equal value.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 982 - 11/07/2022 13:56:24    2431386

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "Thanks Realdub. Once again a great game between our two counties
Dublin very unlucky and Con a massive loss"
Which Kerry player was pushing the Dublin players back as O'Shea was preparing to take the final free? He was lucky the free was not cancelled and ball thrown up. Stupid antics. Does management discuss these things with their players? Not moving away when the free is awarded is another.

Gaa Fan (USA) - Posts: 763 - 11/07/2022 14:16:57    2431399

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Replying To oneoff:  ""Usually happens when they don't have a handy path to an AI.",

What are you saying here then?"
I mean when teams find tactics that put Kerry to the sword and claim victory over them as opposed to just turning up, bowing at the alter for them and taking their beating, like we've seen many times from counties in the past. Plenty of examples given on here of remarks made about the tactics and how it's not 'real football' etc when Kerry are the losers. When they benefit from the same tactics we're supposed to say business as usual? It SHOULD be business as usual but Kerry had the major issue with these tactics. So the likes of Jack O'Connor should at least own his opinions or admit he was wrong in the first place. Otherwise the sore loser tag is plain for all to see.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2558 - 11/07/2022 14:18:19    2431403

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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  "Who are all these mythical Ulster folk saying that other counties' wins are tainted? Not me, that's for sure. Winning anything is never easy.

Although, just to remind you, there was a widespread narrative that Tyrone's win last year was tainted and that Kerry had somehow been tricked (in a thunderous game which they only lost by a point!) and that Mayo had "left it behind them" - widespread Southern narrative; e.g. here in the Examiner:

" ... so much of what they [Mayo
did on the biggest of days fell below their expectations and abilities ..."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40696295.html

That is, Mayo inexplicably played below themselves. Any begrudging narrative will do, so long as it serves to diminish the achievement of a winning Northern team. The idea that Tyrone may just have been better on the day is not even up for consideration."]I'm not sure who he's referring to either. I didn't read everything on here at the time but the general vibe I got when Tyrone went out of the championship was well accepted by their posters and no excuses were made for losing to a rival.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2558 - 11/07/2022 14:26:19    2431413

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "I don't agree… I think this Dublin team are finished.. Cooper , Rock and Mc Carthy may not be seen again.. they are seriously weak on the bench … their forwards are particularly weak … apart from Kilkenny not one of yesterday's starting 6 would get near the Kerry team…. they went for one big push yesterday and it nearly paid off but if the penalty had been scored Kerry might have won by 9/10 pulling up… All the worse for Galway in the final that Kerry were put to the pin of their collar to get over the line… A monkey off their backs and now they will be seriously focusing on the final where if they establish a lead like yesterday they will really put Galway to the sword…"
"If" the penalty had been scored? Well "if"O'Shea had missed the free, "If" David was injured and Con was fit. Real world, Comerford saved the peno, forget about the "ifs".

sligo joe (Dublin) - Posts: 891 - 11/07/2022 14:39:38    2431418

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Replying To s goldrick:  "It was reckless"
Would you want a red card for player kicking the ball if opposition player tries to block it and gets a kick up the mouth?

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2294 - 11/07/2022 14:47:15    2431422

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please correct me if I am mistaken but was Comerford not kicked in the head?
He didn't feign injury imo

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1226 - 11/07/2022 15:04:50    2431430

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I note how RTÉ Sunday Game referenced the length of time Comerford lay on the ground but never linked his leg/head injury & the impact it had on the black card. The clock should stop to eliminate this carry on. I also thought comerfords shaking the goal posts when O'Shea taking that final free was very juvenile. One thing for sure is he is no cluxton. Doesn't do himself any favours.

P.Mckenna (Louth) - Posts: 105 - 11/07/2022 15:34:59    2431449

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Replying To maroondiesel:  "please correct me if I am mistaken but was Comerford not kicked in the head?
He didn't feign injury imo"
So did you watch all the game?

P.Mckenna (Louth) - Posts: 105 - 11/07/2022 16:00:10    2431463

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Replying To points50swiththeargyllsonthewrongfeet:  "What's your evidence for saying that? We don't get to too many finals anyway, so not sure what you're on about there.

In general though, a good loser tends to remain a loser. Mayo fans - in my experience (I was at the 04 and 06 finals) - are good losers. Kerry fans are bad losers (remember P O'Sé's infamous "animals" comment), and will blame the selector etc if things don't go well for them.

And, tbh, that's a positive. Anyone who is easy-going about losing, who isn't devastated and hurt and annoyed by it, will likely be a loser forever. It's why apparently Roy Keane attacked a fellow player when he heard him laughing in the dressing room after a defeat. Reasoning, correctly, that if he was in good humour, he hadn't been trying hard enough during the match.

My perception is that we're somewhere in between Kerry and Mayo - less tolerant of defeat than Mayo fans, but not as intolerant as Kerry fans. And, contrary to the rationale in your jibe, it'd do us all no harm if we were more, not less, intolerant of losing."
It depends on what you mean by bad losers or bad winners. I have found most Kerry fans down through the year to be good losers in that they gracious with the winners as Eugene McGee Offaly manager said he could nt believe how gracious Kerry were in defeat. I also recall Ronan Clarke (Armagh) saying Séamus Moynihan sent him a letter of congratulation in 02 after Armagh great win. Many Dub friend of mine said Kerry were great losers in 2011.However amongst ourselves yes we are bad losers and find it hard to accept. That's because the more you win the harder it is to lose. Look at the Dublin players yesterday. Devastated. Gracious in defeat but hurt amongst themselves. Sometimes that's what seperate winners and losers. Every county has annoying fans. Some worse than others. I can cope a little bit with a bad loser but bad winners are worse imo. Win with dignity and lose with dignity. The famous boxing trainer Cus Damato said "To be a real champion you have to know how to lose first. It's then and only then you can be a real champion."

CiarraiMick (Dublin) - Posts: 3917 - 11/07/2022 17:04:00    2431490

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Replying To P.Mckenna:  "So did you watch all the game?"
yes, it was a separate incident from the one people are complaining about

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1226 - 11/07/2022 17:38:31    2431507

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Replying To P.Mckenna:  "I note how RTÉ Sunday Game referenced the length of time Comerford lay on the ground but never linked his leg/head injury & the impact it had on the black card. The clock should stop to eliminate this carry on. I also thought comerfords shaking the goal posts when O'Shea taking that final free was very juvenile. One thing for sure is he is no cluxton. Doesn't do himself any favours."
McStay made one reference to that at the time, but Canning glossed over the whole incident with no mention of the black card 'time clock' and no questions raised about why Comerford was on the ground having appeared to sustain no injury or his miraculous recovery and ability to stay in goals for the penalty shot. Their overall tone for the game was reverential bordering on obsequious with neither team capable of putting a foot wrong. Indeed before the ball was even thrown in you had both talking at length about how yesterday was the de facto All-Ireland. It was poor commentating from start to finish, to put it mildly.

festinog (Galway) - Posts: 3148 - 11/07/2022 17:58:41    2431516

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Replying To Proudroyal:  "Sorry dont understand why people are having a pop at Kerry for keeping the ball,sure most counties do it.Dublin have done it plenty of times,most teams do it .Its game management,taking the risk out of it.Why would Kerry kick a 50/50 balls in all the time while Dublin had most players back behind the ball and get punished for it.Do I like it no of course not but just to single out Kerry for doing it is wrong,as nearly every county does to an extent.Kerry held the ball for 3/4 minutes yesterday to suck Dublin out who had 15 men behind the ball and got a score from it.while it's not an easy watch you have to hold your hands up to them for keeping the ball under such pressure and managing to get the score.The free Kerry got at the end came from a 30 yard pass in and could have easily been intercepted (nearly was(what if Dublin turned it over and went up and scored the winner ?)I'm sure people in Kerry and pundits alike would be saying why didn't he just keep the ball?lThere was some very good scored yesterday Clifford kicked a couple of classy points while McCarthy kicked a great point for Dublin and Costellos goal was so well taken.Unless they changed the rules we can expect more of keep ball going down the line.While we would all like more free flowing games if you're ahead and have the ball the other team cant hurt you."
they arent being singled out ..every team comes in for criticism about it especially by the pindits but it was the lack of a mention of it at all i was alluding to
some lovely football played but a touch of hypocrisy (from the pundits not the fans )

Peadarw (Donegal) - Posts: 43 - 11/07/2022 18:11:19    2431518

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Replying To ForeverBlue2:  "I don't agree… I think this Dublin team are finished.. Cooper , Rock and Mc Carthy may not be seen again.. they are seriously weak on the bench … their forwards are particularly weak … apart from Kilkenny not one of yesterday's starting 6 would get near the Kerry team…. they went for one big push yesterday and it nearly paid off but if the penalty had been scored Kerry might have won by 9/10 pulling up… All the worse for Galway in the final that Kerry were put to the pin of their collar to get over the line… A monkey off their backs and now they will be seriously focusing on the final where if they establish a lead like yesterday they will really put Galway to the sword…"
Agreed this one off great Dublin team are finished.

superbluedub (Dublin) - Posts: 2842 - 11/07/2022 19:22:04    2431529

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Replying To CiarraiMick:  "It depends on what you mean by bad losers or bad winners. I have found most Kerry fans down through the year to be good losers in that they gracious with the winners as Eugene McGee Offaly manager said he could nt believe how gracious Kerry were in defeat. I also recall Ronan Clarke (Armagh) saying Séamus Moynihan sent him a letter of congratulation in 02 after Armagh great win. Many Dub friend of mine said Kerry were great losers in 2011.However amongst ourselves yes we are bad losers and find it hard to accept. That's because the more you win the harder it is to lose. Look at the Dublin players yesterday. Devastated. Gracious in defeat but hurt amongst themselves. Sometimes that's what seperate winners and losers. Every county has annoying fans. Some worse than others. I can cope a little bit with a bad loser but bad winners are worse imo. Win with dignity and lose with dignity. The famous boxing trainer Cus Damato said "To be a real champion you have to know how to lose first. It's then and only then you can be a real champion.""
A wonderful post CiarriMick…. I have a feeling you are as gracious in defeat as you are in victory.. fair play to you…

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3845 - 11/07/2022 19:36:55    2431532

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