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Replying To KillingFields: "I was working in aviva last night. So many just fed up and nearly all criticism is of fai and the failings of their structures and systems, or more like lack of any systems/structures as to why Kenny has struggled. Yeah you can only feel sorry for Kenny as he's trying his best with such a very limited group of players." How many of them would even play for FAI if they got a better offer? Surely be better off picking what used to be known as League of Ireland XI back in the day, BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3275 - 11/09/2023 15:22:36 2503836 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "If you took the 4 bottom seeds out of each group (Romania, Chile, Namibia, Portugal) out of it, it wouldn't have a material effect on the outcome of each group. There'd be less dead rubber games (which, let's face it, Ireland's was on Saturday) and it'd be 1 less game for each team to play so a positive from a player welfare perspective. Of course, it was great to see the passion and competitiveness of the Chilean team, for example, in their first ever world cup game. Perhaps that leaves the 20 team tournament a viable one. But expanding to 24 doesn't currently make sense. The format is then the issue. Do you go 4 groups of 6 and add another dead-rubber formality for each of the top teams to play? Or worse, do you go 6 groups of 4 and use the old Heineken Cup best-2-runner-up qualifies? That was a mess and was only alleviated by the fact the tournament was annual. You can't do it for a once-every-4-years tournament." It would have a material effect on growing the game though which is a principal part of world rugbys whole ethos. Irelands game was a dead rubber on Saturday but to be fair to Romania they only qualified due to Spain fielding an ineligible player and being thrown out after qualifying on the pitch. expansion to 24 needs to happen soon though to help expand the game more and this has to be tied in with getting the other countries more games against top sides outside of a world cup Format would be an issue but look at fifa and soccer world cup. expanded to 32 in 98 to allow more countries from areas of world not as represented and it helps those areas grow over time best runners up qualfying for knock out stages wasnt a mess. it was a real good thing of the heineken cup format as it kept interest across all pools to final weekend. you most certainly can do it for a tournament held every 4 years. no reason you cant KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3695 - 11/09/2023 15:24:46 2503838 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "It would have a material effect on growing the game though which is a principal part of world rugbys whole ethos. Irelands game was a dead rubber on Saturday but to be fair to Romania they only qualified due to Spain fielding an ineligible player and being thrown out after qualifying on the pitch. expansion to 24 needs to happen soon though to help expand the game more and this has to be tied in with getting the other countries more games against top sides outside of a world cup Format would be an issue but look at fifa and soccer world cup. expanded to 32 in 98 to allow more countries from areas of world not as represented and it helps those areas grow over time best runners up qualfying for knock out stages wasnt a mess. it was a real good thing of the heineken cup format as it kept interest across all pools to final weekend. you most certainly can do it for a tournament held every 4 years. no reason you cant" A cynic might say that it is to ensure the USA is in the World Cup in 31 - certainly I think they will have it for it. The fact that the USA are not there this year is a setback for the sport in the USA and Rugby generally. Rugby is professional and the world cup provides these second tier countries with the exposure that they need internally and internationally to build that professionalism. In 24 team WC while the top teams will give teams a trimming, there will at least be another team that they have a chance of beating. They may also have to expand the squad size as well. Hurling has a lot in common with Rugby when it comes to growing the game - a lot of the top tier have shown indifference to the growth of the game. For the likes of Japan and Fiji to further they need to be playing in a top tier competition every year not just every 4 years. There are a lot of changes happening in rugby as even the top tier recognize they need to do something to keep growing zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1905 - 12/09/2023 03:58:43 2503914 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "It would have a material effect on growing the game though which is a principal part of world rugbys whole ethos. Irelands game was a dead rubber on Saturday but to be fair to Romania they only qualified due to Spain fielding an ineligible player and being thrown out after qualifying on the pitch. expansion to 24 needs to happen soon though to help expand the game more and this has to be tied in with getting the other countries more games against top sides outside of a world cup Format would be an issue but look at fifa and soccer world cup. expanded to 32 in 98 to allow more countries from areas of world not as represented and it helps those areas grow over time best runners up qualfying for knock out stages wasnt a mess. it was a real good thing of the heineken cup format as it kept interest across all pools to final weekend. you most certainly can do it for a tournament held every 4 years. no reason you cant" But Ireland v Spain wouldn't have gone any differently. Soccer worked because upsets are far more common and easier to achieve given the nature of the game. Senegal beat France 4 years after the expansion to 32 teams. There's no way that 4 years from now (or even from 2027) that Spain or Romania will be beating Ireland/NZ/France etc. I get the point about growing the game. The best way to do that would be hugely unpopular - i.e. expand the 6 nations to be a 12 team, grouped tournament, possibly allowing Canada and USA in too. Similarly, allow Japan and the Pacific Islanders into the Rugby Championship. As the above poster points out - there is little appetite among Tier 1 nations to share the spoils. And while that's wrong, what's the alternative? Look at the financial fragility of the Welsh game at the moment. Same for Scotland and Italy. Take 2 or 3 of the big annual games away from Italy and they go under. Allowing 24 teams into the RWC only works if Tier 2 teams get regular games in between these tournaments against Tier 1 sides. And that only works if it doesn't cripple Tier 1 unions. Which it does. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5215 - 12/09/2023 12:04:17 2503961 Link
Replying To zinny: "A cynic might say that it is to ensure the USA is in the World Cup in 31 - certainly I think they will have it for it. The fact that the USA are not there this year is a setback for the sport in the USA and Rugby generally. Rugby is professional and the world cup provides these second tier countries with the exposure that they need internally and internationally to build that professionalism. In 24 team WC while the top teams will give teams a trimming, there will at least be another team that they have a chance of beating. They may also have to expand the squad size as well. Hurling has a lot in common with Rugby when it comes to growing the game - a lot of the top tier have shown indifference to the growth of the game. For the likes of Japan and Fiji to further they need to be playing in a top tier competition every year not just every 4 years. There are a lot of changes happening in rugby as even the top tier recognize they need to do something to keep growing" Oh most certainly its a setback for rugby that US arent there(same with Canada). its a first world cup with no north american reps. a 24 world cup could see some trimmings but many of the trimmings have been reduced in recent tournaments Japan and Fiji do need more games and top competition. at least fiji now have the drua in super rugby and samoa/tonga have maona pasifka for players to get some top level games closer to home/at home which is better. KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3695 - 12/09/2023 15:20:02 2504009 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "But Ireland v Spain wouldn't have gone any differently. Soccer worked because upsets are far more common and easier to achieve given the nature of the game. Senegal beat France 4 years after the expansion to 32 teams. There's no way that 4 years from now (or even from 2027) that Spain or Romania will be beating Ireland/NZ/France etc. I get the point about growing the game. The best way to do that would be hugely unpopular - i.e. expand the 6 nations to be a 12 team, grouped tournament, possibly allowing Canada and USA in too. Similarly, allow Japan and the Pacific Islanders into the Rugby Championship. As the above poster points out - there is little appetite among Tier 1 nations to share the spoils. And while that's wrong, what's the alternative? Look at the financial fragility of the Welsh game at the moment. Same for Scotland and Italy. Take 2 or 3 of the big annual games away from Italy and they go under. Allowing 24 teams into the RWC only works if Tier 2 teams get regular games in between these tournaments against Tier 1 sides. And that only works if it doesn't cripple Tier 1 unions. Which it does." Upsets are more common and easier to achieve but nothing rugby can do will ever change that. I do think countries need more games against the top sides but problem with rugby is finding the room for the extra games. soccer players can play saturday/wednesday/saturday etc while its just not possible in rugby so how do you find the room forthe extra games. KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3695 - 12/09/2023 15:21:58 2504010 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "Upsets are more common and easier to achieve but nothing rugby can do will ever change that. I do think countries need more games against the top sides but problem with rugby is finding the room for the extra games. soccer players can play saturday/wednesday/saturday etc while its just not possible in rugby so how do you find the room forthe extra games." That's my exact point. You only find it by changing the current format of the 6 nations or Rugby Championship. For example, 2 groups of 5 in a "European 10 nations" Championship with the top 2 playing in a final is still a 5-game tournament for the 2 finalists. But that replaces, say, Italy v France with Italy v Romania if France happen to be in the other group. A big hit for the Italian rugby coffers to take. cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5215 - 13/09/2023 14:26:45 2504162 Link
Replying To cavanman47: "That's my exact point. You only find it by changing the current format of the 6 nations or Rugby Championship. For example, 2 groups of 5 in a "European 10 nations" Championship with the top 2 playing in a final is still a 5-game tournament for the 2 finalists. But that replaces, say, Italy v France with Italy v Romania if France happen to be in the other group. A big hit for the Italian rugby coffers to take." It would be a big hit for all the 6 nations coffers which is why theyre so slow to make changes KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3695 - 16/09/2023 17:48:59 2504444 Link
good win 59-16 hopefully no injuries. KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3695 - 16/09/2023 22:09:05 2504465 Link
Delighted for Johnny Sexton creating an all-time scoring record and plenty of time left to stretch it further. A few talking points but the only talking point worth a mention is that of the camera people, for example, anytime a try was scored a person laden with a hi-viz sky camera racing across the field and into the face (almost) of the try scorer before the conversion was taken, they are also clearly seen walking into the dressing room complete with camera(s), full stop. supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3084 - 16/09/2023 22:33:20 2504468 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "good win 59-16 hopefully no injuries." Very professional start to the tournament with two expected wins ticked off. The reality is World Cup starts for Ireland next weekend. I'm hopeful this team will be different and make us genuniely competitive any maybe can also get beyond a QF. It's a tough road and good luck to them. sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 17/09/2023 10:58:03 2504481 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "good win 59-16 hopefully no injuries." It was a good win by a determined Ireland. Big game v South Africa next week. thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1879 - 17/09/2023 21:20:06 2504551 Link
Replying To thelongridge: "It was a good win by a determined Ireland. Big game v South Africa next week." Massive game against South Africa. They probably will whack the ** out of each other, so I hope Ireland are strong going into Scotland game. France or NZ await in any quarter final. Ridiculous seeding as in contrast English have a soft route to quarter finals and should be fresher, with the ability to peak at optimum time. Bundee Aki is playing rugby of his life, and if Ireland continue to excel in line outs, I give them every chance! Roll on Saturday! Ryanteam (Cork)** - Posts: 417 - 18/09/2023 00:54:33 2504561 Link
Replying To sam1884: "Very professional start to the tournament with two expected wins ticked off. The reality is World Cup starts for Ireland next weekend. I'm hopeful this team will be different and make us genuniely competitive any maybe can also get beyond a QF. It's a tough road and good luck to them." A tad facetious there, hoping we'll be 'genuniely competitive'. This squad has demonstrated that for years. They've a no1 world ranking ffs. Losing to Scotland would be more of the same, and in line with previous world cup disappointments. Losing to South Africa, New Zealand or France probably would not be more of the same, and might ultimately be our lot out of this draw. Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3911 - 18/09/2023 14:14:22 2504619 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "A tad facetious there, hoping we'll be 'genuniely competitive'. This squad has demonstrated that for years. They've a no1 world ranking ffs. Losing to Scotland would be more of the same, and in line with previous world cup disappointments. Losing to South Africa, New Zealand or France probably would not be more of the same, and might ultimately be our lot out of this draw." Offaly beat Dublin in O'Byrne Cup but you'd have to have fancied the Dubs had they met in the championship. Same applies here I think? BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3275 - 18/09/2023 14:48:04 2504630 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "A tad facetious there, hoping we'll be 'genuniely competitive'. This squad has demonstrated that for years. They've a no1 world ranking ffs. Losing to Scotland would be more of the same, and in line with previous world cup disappointments. Losing to South Africa, New Zealand or France probably would not be more of the same, and might ultimately be our lot out of this draw." I think I'm being honest. We have the worst WC record amongst Tier 1 nations. Being a Tier 1 nation brings a lot of wealth and an opportunity to play top teams on a yearly basis. Whatever the reason is, we have not been genuinely competitive at any previous WC. I don't recall winning too many games against those at our level and certainly have been nowhere near being competitive in the knock out stages. Yes we have been good during the years in between WC's and developed a tough programme over the last couple of years which has brought good results. I'm hopeful this squad is different but to deny the reality is only going with the media narrative. Our WC record has not been good but we're told this squad will be different - good luck to them. sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 18/09/2023 17:11:58 2504660 Link
Replying To sam1884: "I think I'm being honest. We have the worst WC record amongst Tier 1 nations. Being a Tier 1 nation brings a lot of wealth and an opportunity to play top teams on a yearly basis. Whatever the reason is, we have not been genuinely competitive at any previous WC. I don't recall winning too many games against those at our level and certainly have been nowhere near being competitive in the knock out stages. Yes we have been good during the years in between WC's and developed a tough programme over the last couple of years which has brought good results. I'm hopeful this squad is different but to deny the reality is only going with the media narrative. Our WC record has not been good but we're told this squad will be different - good luck to them." 'The reality' is that the past performances of retired teams doesn't weigh on this squad. Why would it? This is evidenced with recent Grand Slam successes, a tour win in NZ, and regular enough wins over southern hemisphere opposition in 'friendlies/'test matches''. The 'real reality" though is that this squad probably must beat Scotland to reach a qfinal, and then must beat the All Black's or favourites France to reach a semi. If they fail to reach that semi, you'll have some 'confusion" I'm sure, as to which particular 'reality' tripped us up on this occasion. Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3911 - 18/09/2023 20:47:10 2504682 Link
Replying To sam1884: "I think I'm being honest. We have the worst WC record amongst Tier 1 nations. Being a Tier 1 nation brings a lot of wealth and an opportunity to play top teams on a yearly basis. Whatever the reason is, we have not been genuinely competitive at any previous WC. I don't recall winning too many games against those at our level and certainly have been nowhere near being competitive in the knock out stages. Yes we have been good during the years in between WC's and developed a tough programme over the last couple of years which has brought good results. I'm hopeful this squad is different but to deny the reality is only going with the media narrative. Our WC record has not been good but we're told this squad will be different - good luck to them." Have Wales or Scotland ever played in a world cup final, and did you know the answer without looking it up? A lot is made of Ireland's inferior wc record to teams like Wales and Scotland, but is far too much being made of it, for at least 2 reasons.....1.Wales and Scotland have never had a sniff of winning the world cup, despite their great 'superior' record to Ireland and........2. Ireland have been more successful than most other northern hemisphere countries for at least a decade or more, outside of wc competition. Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3911 - 18/09/2023 20:59:34 2504686 Link
Replying To Pope_Benedict: "'The reality' is that the past performances of retired teams doesn't weigh on this squad. Why would it? This is evidenced with recent Grand Slam successes, a tour win in NZ, and regular enough wins over southern hemisphere opposition in 'friendlies/'test matches''. The 'real reality" though is that this squad probably must beat Scotland to reach a qfinal, and then must beat the All Black's or favourites France to reach a semi. If they fail to reach that semi, you'll have some 'confusion" I'm sure, as to which particular 'reality' tripped us up on this occasion." While I don't agree with the people who diminish the achievements of this current squad I also don't agree with people who say the history of previous WC's has not bearing on this squad. It absolutely does no matter how you try and dress it up. If they don't perform well against South Africa and are well beaten but make it out of the group as runners up the pressure will be huge in the quarter final. This game on Saturday will tell an awful lot. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8208 - 19/09/2023 09:39:09 2504737 Link
South Africa will show where Ireland are at in this competition They are monsters, watched them make a show of the All Blacks a few weeks ago, they looked hugely powerful If Ireland best them, they are capable of beating anyone and go on to do something special at this WC jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20699 - 19/09/2023 11:12:05 2504770 Link