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Replying To TheFlaker: "It's telling you and the other lad are commenting on this but didn't have any interest in chatting about the Fox News case at the time?" I was more taken interest as I like and listen to linekar a lot and he was treated completely hypocritically by bbc for speaking up on Gaza
jm25 (Galway) - Posts: 1739 - 11/11/2025 12:21:10
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Replying To TheFlaker: "It's telling you and the other lad are commenting on this but didn't have any interest in chatting about the Fox News case at the time?" Is it telling you and the other chap won't address the current news and revert to either digging up something that happened a few years previous? or just throwing shade on trump.
I just provide balance like I've been saying trump is wrong on lots like not releasing files or talking nonsense at NFL game Sunday evening trying to get Washington team stadium in his name
You can't address anything in where he's been wronged
jm25 (Galway) - Posts: 1739 - 11/11/2025 12:32:18
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Replying To TheFlaker: "I still find it unbelievable that people think there is a god overseeing all that happens in the world. If there is then he is some craic." I think we're left to our own devices but it's perfectly logical for there to be a God.
I don't think God is interested in Jonnie's leaving cert for example.
I can also understand why a compassionate person would question it. There's an awful lot of suffering in this world that seems pointless.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4026 - 11/11/2025 12:59:24
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Replying To WanPintWin: "I don't find it unbelievable at all. It's no coincidence that cultures all over the world developed belief systems in a higher being, independently of each other, thousands and thousands of years ago.
It's simplistic to say that people would believe this means bad things shouldn't happen. In fact, it's to help deal with the trials, tribulations and tragedies of the world that the faith is relied upon.
There are many scientific studies which show that people with a stronger faith cope better with tough situations or tragedy than those with little or no belief in a higher being. From times in the past where families would lose very high percentages of their children as infants, and even basic survival was a challenge, you can see how people developed a belief system to help them cope.
Even if you were completely agnostic, you'd be better advising someone to have faith than not, if you wanted to give them a better chance of dealing with the challenges of life." Brilliant post.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4026 - 11/11/2025 13:00:41
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Replying To TheFlaker: "I still find it unbelievable that people think there is a god overseeing all that happens in the world. If there is then he is some craic." He definitely seems to have it in for some countries alright.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2578 - 11/11/2025 13:25:17
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Replying To jm25: "I was more taken interest as I like and listen to linekar a lot and he was treated completely hypocritically by bbc for speaking up on Gaza" Totally agree.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8630 - 11/11/2025 13:27:52
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Replying To jm25: "Is it telling you and the other chap won't address the current news and revert to either digging up something that happened a few years previous? or just throwing shade on trump.
I just provide balance like I've been saying trump is wrong on lots like not releasing files or talking nonsense at NFL game Sunday evening trying to get Washington team stadium in his name
You can't address anything in where he's been wronged" I can. But where else has he been wronged? Like in reality not just him saying he has been ?
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8630 - 11/11/2025 13:29:05
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Replying To WanPintWin: "I don't find it unbelievable at all. It's no coincidence that cultures all over the world developed belief systems in a higher being, independently of each other, thousands and thousands of years ago.
It's simplistic to say that people would believe this means bad things shouldn't happen. In fact, it's to help deal with the trials, tribulations and tragedies of the world that the faith is relied upon.
There are many scientific studies which show that people with a stronger faith cope better with tough situations or tragedy than those with little or no belief in a higher being. From times in the past where families would lose very high percentages of their children as infants, and even basic survival was a challenge, you can see how people developed a belief system to help them cope.
Even if you were completely agnostic, you'd be better advising someone to have faith than not, if you wanted to give them a better chance of dealing with the challenges of life." You can say it's good for people of faith to have beliefs in time of trouble. Also I would worry about a certain amount of the population finding out they can do whatever they want because there is no punishment. I get that. But it's such a handy excuse for religious people to say God has given us free will and isn't interested in showing himself or sending a warning. God is willing to watch from above while children starve, die from disease or even be abused even by members of the clergy? Some god. But we are also led to believe that God and Mary have appeared to people but not in recent history, also very convenient. God is testing us apparently. Some craic.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8630 - 11/11/2025 14:59:59
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Replying To TheFlaker: "You can say it's good for people of faith to have beliefs in time of trouble. Also I would worry about a certain amount of the population finding out they can do whatever they want because there is no punishment. I get that. But it's such a handy excuse for religious people to say God has given us free will and isn't interested in showing himself or sending a warning. God is willing to watch from above while children starve, die from disease or even be abused even by members of the clergy? Some god. But we are also led to believe that God and Mary have appeared to people but not in recent history, also very convenient. God is testing us apparently. Some craic." You're now focusing on specific religions and their various tenets. That has nothing to do with my answer.
Your original point was that you find it unbelievable that people can have belief in a higher power. I was stating why it shouldn't be hard to believe at all, why people would have such faith and the fact that it's actually beneficial to have it in dealing with life's challenges.
My argument isn't about whether there is or there isn't a higher power, but why there's nothing remotely surprising about why people would believe in it. It can be a huge help for people in trying to deal with life's issues. The belief in a greater power and an afterlife are core parts of all of these belief systems.
The fact that such beliefs originated long before organised religion, in every corner of the earth among very different cultures indicates that it's an innate part of human thinking.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2629 - 11/11/2025 16:18:10
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Replying To WanPintWin: "You're now focusing on specific religions and their various tenets. That has nothing to do with my answer.
Your original point was that you find it unbelievable that people can have belief in a higher power. I was stating why it shouldn't be hard to believe at all, why people would have such faith and the fact that it's actually beneficial to have it in dealing with life's challenges.
My argument isn't about whether there is or there isn't a higher power, but why there's nothing remotely surprising about why people would believe in it. It can be a huge help for people in trying to deal with life's issues. The belief in a greater power and an afterlife are core parts of all of these belief systems.
The fact that such beliefs originated long before organised religion, in every corner of the earth among very different cultures indicates that it's an innate part of human thinking." My original post had nothing to do with how religion is helpful to people and their lives. My post was saying if people actually thought about it and analysed it they would realise in reality how far fetched the whole idea is and how religions change their narrative to suit their agenda so that people still support them.
So that's my point, i am not debating the good and bad and the psychology of the human mind from person to person. My point is I believe it's absolutely ridiculous to actually accept a higher power let's dreadful things happen to children in particular and then it's passed off as his well.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8630 - 11/11/2025 17:23:30
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Replying To Doylerwex: "This conversation has taken a turn. That depends on whether or not you believe Mary was born with original sin which is the essence of my point.
We are all sinners.
I don't agree with the second part. How many people do you know that don't do bad stuff?
Try as I might I'm committing at least one of the 7 deadly sins every week." This was playing on my mind a bit so I had to reply.
Yes, I do believe that Mary was born without original sin, if she was born with original sin she couldn't have become the mother of her son Jesus.
supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3298 - 11/11/2025 19:14:20
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Replying To WanPintWin: "I don't find it unbelievable at all. It's no coincidence that cultures all over the world developed belief systems in a higher being, independently of each other, thousands and thousands of years ago.
It's simplistic to say that people would believe this means bad things shouldn't happen. In fact, it's to help deal with the trials, tribulations and tragedies of the world that the faith is relied upon.
There are many scientific studies which show that people with a stronger faith cope better with tough situations or tragedy than those with little or no belief in a higher being. From times in the past where families would lose very high percentages of their children as infants, and even basic survival was a challenge, you can see how people developed a belief system to help them cope.
Even if you were completely agnostic, you'd be better advising someone to have faith than not, if you wanted to give them a better chance of dealing with the challenges of life." The real beauty of it is, you'll never know you were wrongly believing in all this stuff, when you're dead. On that basis, you'd be well advised to 'believe' (if you can) while you're here, and garner these fringe benefits that you mention. We're here for 80-100 years max, we're not here for billions of years.
I remember that RTE show some years back that was made up entirely of older citizens articulating their words of wisdom. One chap likened faith to car insurance.......you might never need it, but if you do, you'll have it.
Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 4464 - 11/11/2025 22:07:41
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Replying To TheFlaker: "My original post had nothing to do with how religion is helpful to people and their lives. My post was saying if people actually thought about it and analysed it they would realise in reality how far fetched the whole idea is and how religions change their narrative to suit their agenda so that people still support them.
So that's my point, i am not debating the good and bad and the psychology of the human mind from person to person. My point is I believe it's absolutely ridiculous to actually accept a higher power let's dreadful things happen to children in particular and then it's passed off as his well." I do understand what you're saying and I certainly don't have all the answers, but can you honestly say the suffering we see around us isn't caused by humans?
I don't believe it's the will of God for children to suffer, but evil has it's share in everything.
This world isn't perfect. It's a reflection of us, which brings me back to my original point. Human nature is selfish, even wicked.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4026 - 11/11/2025 23:39:02
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Replying To supersub15: "This was playing on my mind a bit so I had to reply.
Yes, I do believe that Mary was born without original sin, if she was born with original sin she couldn't have become the mother of her son Jesus." Why couldn't she? She was human then became divine which is the hope for all of us. Jesus was divine, but became human.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4026 - 11/11/2025 23:40:12
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Replying To WanPintWin: "You're now focusing on specific religions and their various tenets. That has nothing to do with my answer.
Your original point was that you find it unbelievable that people can have belief in a higher power. I was stating why it shouldn't be hard to believe at all, why people would have such faith and the fact that it's actually beneficial to have it in dealing with life's challenges.
My argument isn't about whether there is or there isn't a higher power, but why there's nothing remotely surprising about why people would believe in it. It can be a huge help for people in trying to deal with life's issues. The belief in a greater power and an afterlife are core parts of all of these belief systems.
The fact that such beliefs originated long before organised religion, in every corner of the earth among very different cultures indicates that it's an innate part of human thinking." I am on your wavelength on all of this. I work with a lot of young and middle-aged people who are riddled with anxiety and worry. It often crosses my mind " if only this or that person believed in something greater than themselves" , something that would add meaning to their life, infuse them with a feeling of love in difficult and trying times. . " if God didnt exist it would be necessary to invent Him" sort of stuff. I never bring it further than that unless they bring it up with me themselves. I mean sensible religion, like "the lily in the fields" verse not the mad stuff that the Burkes have got themselves stuck on. This can be done via a humanist perspective too of course but it is so much more therapeutic and effective in my opinion if the person has an openness to faith.
PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2100 - 12/11/2025 00:08:35
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Replying To Doylerwex: "Why couldn't she? She was human then became divine which is the hope for all of us. Jesus was divine, but became human." The bodily assumption isnt a belief held by a very large number of Christians Doyler.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17479 - 12/11/2025 09:26:11
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "I am on your wavelength on all of this. I work with a lot of young and middle-aged people who are riddled with anxiety and worry. It often crosses my mind " if only this or that person believed in something greater than themselves" , something that would add meaning to their life, infuse them with a feeling of love in difficult and trying times. . " if God didnt exist it would be necessary to invent Him" sort of stuff. I never bring it further than that unless they bring it up with me themselves. I mean sensible religion, like "the lily in the fields" verse not the mad stuff that the Burkes have got themselves stuck on. This can be done via a humanist perspective too of course but it is so much more therapeutic and effective in my opinion if the person has an openness to faith." Some great, well thought out, insightful and provocative posts on this particular topic . I think it reinforces my personal belief that there are many "good" people in the world. In fact, I believe that very few, if any, start out in life without "good intentions". Various world or life experiences can change that, and do. . I think that your beliefs and those of others are very much in line with what Christianity was all about in its infancy. But did it become such a broad based movement that various political rulers saw its appeal and potential power and hijacked it for their own ends. I'm thinking of when the Roman Empire became the Holy Roman Empire, the Medicis etc.
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1924 - 12/11/2025 09:28:17
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Replying To WanPintWin: "You're now focusing on specific religions and their various tenets. That has nothing to do with my answer.
Your original point was that you find it unbelievable that people can have belief in a higher power. I was stating why it shouldn't be hard to believe at all, why people would have such faith and the fact that it's actually beneficial to have it in dealing with life's challenges.
My argument isn't about whether there is or there isn't a higher power, but why there's nothing remotely surprising about why people would believe in it. It can be a huge help for people in trying to deal with life's issues. The belief in a greater power and an afterlife are core parts of all of these belief systems.
The fact that such beliefs originated long before organised religion, in every corner of the earth among very different cultures indicates that it's an innate part of human thinking." There are too many things that have happened, will happen, and are happening that can't be explained by current science. And in general I'm a very logical minded man. I know it's possi le it's just our scientific knowledge hasn't reached a level where it can explain all these things, but even taking that into account I think on balance of probability it's even likely that some higher power exists, and that this lifetime on earth we have isnt our whole existence.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17479 - 12/11/2025 09:30:44
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Replying To Viking66: "There are too many things that have happened, will happen, and are happening that can't be explained by current science. And in general I'm a very logical minded man. I know it's possi le it's just our scientific knowledge hasn't reached a level where it can explain all these things, but even taking that into account I think on balance of probability it's even likely that some higher power exists, and that this lifetime on earth we have isnt our whole existence." I really don't understand how you can say it's likely that a higher power exists if you are logical. But each to their own. My wife is a Catholic and weekly mass goer with my kids and I don't force my opinions on anyone. But my overall point is if there was a higher power who stands by and watches terrible things happen to millions of children then he isn't for me. And i think the excuse that God gives people free will and doesn't interfere with anything is a really really lame excuse for people who are believers.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8630 - 12/11/2025 09:44:28
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Replying To PoolSturgeon: "I am on your wavelength on all of this. I work with a lot of young and middle-aged people who are riddled with anxiety and worry. It often crosses my mind " if only this or that person believed in something greater than themselves" , something that would add meaning to their life, infuse them with a feeling of love in difficult and trying times. . " if God didnt exist it would be necessary to invent Him" sort of stuff. I never bring it further than that unless they bring it up with me themselves. I mean sensible religion, like "the lily in the fields" verse not the mad stuff that the Burkes have got themselves stuck on. This can be done via a humanist perspective too of course but it is so much more therapeutic and effective in my opinion if the person has an openness to faith." 100% and well said Poolsturgeon. My Dad was in AA for 50 years. When we were young we'd say the Serenity Prayer before we'd set off in the car. In AA they talk about a Higher Power, something to believe in when they're on the road to recovery and very often go off the road. I heard some say that regularly going to meetings and talk about their battles with addiction was like their higher power. I'm not religious but the thoughts of the Serenity prayer often helped me.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8337 - 12/11/2025 09:47:12
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