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Greed is the worst trait the Irish people learned from centuries of British imperialism and has infected Nationalists equally North and South. It is a disgrace in a country that less than two hundred years ago there was a devastating famine that there is such an unequal distribution of income and such callousness. It is also the reason that the unity of the country hasn't been achieved in over 100 years.
From the Free State under Cosgrave abandoning the boundary commission in 1925 that would likely have made the Northern sectarian state unviable to clear Ireland's share of Britain's national debt at the expense of Northern Nationalists and calling it a great bargain; to a proportion of Northern Nationalists in the latest census identifying with Britain and holding back Irish unity by about 10 years and inflicting upon their fellow citizens more harm of Brexit Britain and Tory rule. How does anyone identify with a British government that that gave a major tax break to millionaires in the middle of a cost of living crisis??
Unionists are even greedier than Nationalists and often go on radio shows to lambast the poor while ignoring the greed of the Tories who run this place. I watched Prime Time on RTE and it was said that the biggest test of the Republic was how it looks after its most impoverished and vulnerable citizens. While the Republic has obviously done an imperfect just of this it has done a much better job than Britain (benefit levels in the Republic are about three times the pitiful levels of benefits in the North). Far from foreign holidays people in the North on benefits are far more likely to be heading to a food bank.
Yet there are unedifying elements to the Republic's economy in that corrupt, greedy Companies have used it as a tax haven. While this may be necessary for economic growth the Republic has sold its soul in some regard. That's my honest take on the present circumstances on this island.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 28/09/2022 13:41:16
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Given that Irish unity seems realistic and inevitable in the medium term why are the Fianna Fail / Fine Gael government not making any preparations for this eventuality. They should be convening citizens assemblies and making preparations given that a border poll seems inevitable now.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 28/09/2022 14:02:29
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Replying To Breffni40: "The current unemployment rate is 4.3%" Lots of jobs out there to fill that 4.3%.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2010 - 28/09/2022 15:04:49
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Replying To Saynothing: "Lots of jobs out there to fill that 4.3%." Alright Gradgrind, we get the message
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12116 - 28/09/2022 16:57:38
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Replying To TheFlaker: "While I agree there are people who use the system and don't actively look for work these numbers are always exaggerated. I don't have several mutual friends who are not looking for work. Top of my head I could probably think of 15 or 20 people in my home town that i know are constantly ducking and diving but they are not in some great situation. Smoking and drinking cans at home is not something to be pointing to and saying how handy they have it." I worked in the department of social protection for a period.
Let's just say I was pretty naive going in, and extremely cynical coming out.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2648 - 28/09/2022 17:47:54
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "Given that Irish unity seems realistic and inevitable in the medium term why are the Fianna Fail / Fine Gael government not making any preparations for this eventuality. They should be convening citizens assemblies and making preparations given that a border poll seems inevitable now." I think some of the Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael party think pushing for a United Ireland would be like turkey's voting for Christmas. That it could strengthen Sinn Féin, independents and other parties chances in future elections. That's my cynical take on it. They'll give an appearance of being pro United Ireland but self interests, over what's best for the country, dictate what decisions are made.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7342 - 28/09/2022 18:51:17
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "Given that Irish unity seems realistic and inevitable in the medium term why are the Fianna Fail / Fine Gael government not making any preparations for this eventuality. They should be convening citizens assemblies and making preparations given that a border poll seems inevitable now." Think the higher ranks in FF/FG have had their own way for the last 100 years and Irish unity might upset the cosy golden circles they move in.
I'd say there's plenty cosy well off types in the 26 countiestoo that don't fancy adding a million or so more protestant/unionist types to the mix here, but I agree unity is inevitable now.
Brexit which the DUP campaigned for of all things had made it inevitable. The old saying of be careful what you wish for springs to mind, the DUP fell for the Brexiters vison of restoring the empire and bringing back control, doesn't look to be much control over there now and the border as agreed by Boris is the Irish sea,
they may talk and spin about it but when you look into the practicalities of importing now from Britain it's clear the Irish sea is the border.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2745 - 28/09/2022 19:38:25
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Replying To Saynothing: "Not at all Breffni, the health service North and South is under pressure, and we have people scrounging their way through life, getting all the benefits going and contributing F all. As the Galway man says, see what happens if a working family some falls. behind in their mortage, while their next-door neighbor is living for free and if something goes wrong with house, they are crying at the landlord looking it fixed." Here you are pointing fingers at the little people that you feel are cheating and yet legally this is allowed!! and encouraged by the government "SSE is been allowed to gain pre-tax profits of more than 1.1 billion, while continuing to increase electricity prices by 35% and gas by 39% for struggling households?" I mean scrounging is not even in the same league as gouging, maybe point that finger where it really matters and the rest will afll into place.
arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4896 - 28/09/2022 22:03:23
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Replying To GreenandRed: "I think some of the Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael party think pushing for a United Ireland would be like turkey's voting for Christmas. That it could strengthen Sinn Féin, independents and other parties chances in future elections. That's my cynical take on it. They'll give an appearance of being pro United Ireland but self interests, over what's best for the country, dictate what decisions are made." Yes over the last 100 years they have often expressed support for a United Ireland but done next to nothing to achieve it. The most annoying aspect is those now saying that 50+1 is not enough to achieve a United Ireland and that Nationalists need a bigger majority. If 50+1 is enough to maintain the Union and achieve Brexit then 50+1 is enough for a United Ireland. Anything else would be undemocratic. It's farcical that Unionists would be again given another veto and some would try to the move the goal posts again.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 29/09/2022 16:41:03
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Think the higher ranks in FF/FG have had their own way for the last 100 years and Irish unity might upset the cosy golden circles they move in.
I'd say there's plenty cosy well off types in the 26 countiestoo that don't fancy adding a million or so more protestant/unionist types to the mix here, but I agree unity is inevitable now.
Brexit which the DUP campaigned for of all things had made it inevitable. The old saying of be careful what you wish for springs to mind, the DUP fell for the Brexiters vison of restoring the empire and bringing back control, doesn't look to be much control over there now and the border as agreed by Boris is the Irish sea,
they may talk and spin about it but when you look into the practicalities of importing now from Britain it's clear the Irish sea is the border." The DUP lack a coherent strategy. They thought that Brexit would separate the North from Ireland and the EU but it has had the complete opposite effect. The trade border is in the Irish sea and cross border trade in Ireland has increased substantially. They are currently trying to get rid of the protocol but if they achieved their aims of removing the protocol and getting a hard border in Ireland they would only speed up the process of a United Ireland.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 29/09/2022 16:51:29
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Replying To arock: "Here you are pointing fingers at the little people that you feel are cheating and yet legally this is allowed!! and encouraged by the government "SSE is been allowed to gain pre-tax profits of more than 1.1 billion, while continuing to increase electricity prices by 35% and gas by 39% for struggling households?" I mean scrounging is not even in the same league as gouging, maybe point that finger where it really matters and the rest will afll into place." Definitely not as I'm the little people but I'm out working as is my wife, what gets my goat is the majority of working families need help also but as usual it's the one's who get all free want the most. As for SSE and all major utility companies are using our money to invest in renewables yet the more power the produce the more it's costing everyone. Government over the water gave a £45,000 tax cut to people earning over £450,000 but the average worker get's £160. Dick Turpin's the lot of them.
Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2010 - 01/10/2022 11:18:07
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "Greed is the worst trait the Irish people learned from centuries of British imperialism and has infected Nationalists equally North and South. It is a disgrace in a country that less than two hundred years ago there was a devastating famine that there is such an unequal distribution of income and such callousness. It is also the reason that the unity of the country hasn't been achieved in over 100 years.
From the Free State under Cosgrave abandoning the boundary commission in 1925 that would likely have made the Northern sectarian state unviable to clear Ireland's share of Britain's national debt at the expense of Northern Nationalists and calling it a great bargain; to a proportion of Northern Nationalists in the latest census identifying with Britain and holding back Irish unity by about 10 years and inflicting upon their fellow citizens more harm of Brexit Britain and Tory rule. How does anyone identify with a British government that that gave a major tax break to millionaires in the middle of a cost of living crisis??
Unionists are even greedier than Nationalists and often go on radio shows to lambast the poor while ignoring the greed of the Tories who run this place. I watched Prime Time on RTE and it was said that the biggest test of the Republic was how it looks after its most impoverished and vulnerable citizens. While the Republic has obviously done an imperfect just of this it has done a much better job than Britain (benefit levels in the Republic are about three times the pitiful levels of benefits in the North). Far from foreign holidays people in the North on benefits are far more likely to be heading to a food bank.
Yet there are unedifying elements to the Republic's economy in that corrupt, greedy Companies have used it as a tax haven. While this may be necessary for economic growth the Republic has sold its soul in some regard. That's my honest take on the present circumstances on this island." We "learned" greed from the British,, oh right yeah, before they came along no one in Ireland was greedy.
Brilliant history lesson there.
Considering that 25 000 people starve to death every day,not to mention dying from other causes that in our part of the world are relatively easily taken care of, could you please explain what your definition of being "impoverished" in modern Britain is?
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 03/10/2022 15:21:28
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Replying To Galway9801: "We "learned" greed from the British,, oh right yeah, before they came along no one in Ireland was greedy.
Brilliant history lesson there.
Considering that 25 000 people starve to death every day,not to mention dying from other causes that in our part of the world are relatively easily taken care of, could you please explain what your definition of being "impoverished" in modern Britain is?" There is more poverty in Britain than in Ireland. There is a lot of poverty in Ireland but there is a stat that the lowest 5% in Ireland have 63% more disposable income than the lowest 5% in the UK. This is many due to the very low level of benefits in the UK. Benefits in the Republic are about three times higher than those in the North. The greed of the Tories is doing so much damage to both communities in the North and a United Ireland is needed on both moral and economic grounds.
Yes the poverty is relative poverty in comparison to the deprivation in third World countries. They are in no way comparable. Yet people in Ireland living in relative poverty in 2022 is completely unacceptable also and is caused by capitalism and insufficient wealth distribution. Capitalism creates millionaires and billionaires while the poorest visit food banks en masse. Ireland needs a left wing government to address this. The shameful rents being charged in the Republic are an example of greedy capitalism. Ireland has more of a social conscience than the UK no doubt but there is a lot of greed in Ireland which is incompatible with the ideals expressed in the 1916 proclamation. Rather what we see is the idea that everyone is equal but some people are more equal than others.
In terms of being impoverished I would say you are impoverished if you are unable to afford the basics of food, heat and warmth and/or have little or no disposable income once the essential bills are paid. Instead of knocking the poorest people on benefits people should be asking how can people on benefits in the North are meant to survive on £10 or less a day?? Instead of worrying about the poorest who
have an insufficient amount to manage worry more about the millionaires and billionaires taking an unfair share of the nations wealth and still want more money. Also the ethics of Ireland's low corporation tax rates that means that wealthy Companies do not pay a fair amount of tax.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 05/10/2022 10:14:36
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Saw a Kevin Bridges comedy gig once. He talked about billionaires having untouchable savings in places like the Cayman Islands. Bridges asks the question, "Why the f*** don't we invade the Cayman Islands then? I mean, WTF are the Cayman Islands going to do about it?!?"
He also advocates putting the dole up to £1000 a week. People would be getting taxis to the dole office, "Ehh keep the meter running there pal, I'll only be 5 minutes here".
Getting tattoos, buying more booze and fags etc. All highly taxable thus benefitting the Exchequer!
* tongue in cheek *
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9128 - 05/10/2022 13:45:16
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "There is more poverty in Britain than in Ireland. There is a lot of poverty in Ireland but there is a stat that the lowest 5% in Ireland have 63% more disposable income than the lowest 5% in the UK. This is many due to the very low level of benefits in the UK. Benefits in the Republic are about three times higher than those in the North. The greed of the Tories is doing so much damage to both communities in the North and a United Ireland is needed on both moral and economic grounds.
Yes the poverty is relative poverty in comparison to the deprivation in third World countries. They are in no way comparable. Yet people in Ireland living in relative poverty in 2022 is completely unacceptable also and is caused by capitalism and insufficient wealth distribution. Capitalism creates millionaires and billionaires while the poorest visit food banks en masse. Ireland needs a left wing government to address this. The shameful rents being charged in the Republic are an example of greedy capitalism. Ireland has more of a social conscience than the UK no doubt but there is a lot of greed in Ireland which is incompatible with the ideals expressed in the 1916 proclamation. Rather what we see is the idea that everyone is equal but some people are more equal than others.
In terms of being impoverished I would say you are impoverished if you are unable to afford the basics of food, heat and warmth and/or have little or no disposable income once the essential bills are paid. Instead of knocking the poorest people on benefits people should be asking how can people on benefits in the North are meant to survive on £10 or less a day?? Instead of worrying about the poorest who
have an insufficient amount to manage worry more about the millionaires and billionaires taking an unfair share of the nations wealth and still want more money. Also the ethics of Ireland's low corporation tax rates that means that wealthy Companies do not pay a fair amount of tax." While I'd be in general agreement with much of what you say I think that in Ireland we're going to be stuck with the status quo. As impressive as Sinn Féin's gains have been I don't think they'll ever get enough votes to form government by themselves (pardon the pun). Not unless a lot of the independents row in beside them? I'm not sure exactly of the numbers offhand. I think it still suits too many people in this country to have FF/FG at the top for things to change any time soon. Take your pick from landlords, developers, banking sector, multinationals etc.
Plus you'd have a lot of the older generation who still recoil at the idea of Sinn Féin controlling things. They still remember the Armalite and ballot box days. I know some retired Guards who would be dead against SF for example, after what the IRA did to the likes of Jerry McCabe. Maybe in time, if Sinn Féin continue on the trajectory that they're on they'll be top dog and we'll see if they can live up to all that they promise.
Agree completely about the Tories. This current crop are particularly loathsome. Absolute power obsessed charlatans the lot of them. You simply could not trust a word they come out with. Truss was a Remainer until it suited her to join the Brexit circus. And that Suella Braverman? I don't think HS admins will allow me to post what I think her & her comments about immigration.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9128 - 07/10/2022 08:57:31
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Replying To Lockjaw: "While I'd be in general agreement with much of what you say I think that in Ireland we're going to be stuck with the status quo. As impressive as Sinn Féin's gains have been I don't think they'll ever get enough votes to form government by themselves (pardon the pun). Not unless a lot of the independents row in beside them? I'm not sure exactly of the numbers offhand. I think it still suits too many people in this country to have FF/FG at the top for things to change any time soon. Take your pick from landlords, developers, banking sector, multinationals etc.
Plus you'd have a lot of the older generation who still recoil at the idea of Sinn Féin controlling things. They still remember the Armalite and ballot box days. I know some retired Guards who would be dead against SF for example, after what the IRA did to the likes of Jerry McCabe. Maybe in time, if Sinn Féin continue on the trajectory that they're on they'll be top dog and we'll see if they can live up to all that they promise.
Agree completely about the Tories. This current crop are particularly loathsome. Absolute power obsessed charlatans the lot of them. You simply could not trust a word they come out with. Truss was a Remainer until it suited her to join the Brexit circus. And that Suella Braverman? I don't think HS admins will allow me to post what I think her & her comments about immigration." Yeah I understand that Fianna Fail/ Fine Gael have had a duopoly on power over the last century but I think that Sinn Fein will be in the next government as they are so far ahead in the polls in the Republic now and many only need the help of a few independents/ People Before Profit/ Social Democrats to govern after the next election. It will be a real challenge for Sinn Fein to govern as they will have deal with the economy etc and it is much more difficult to govern than to be in opposition. Yet Sinn Fein will tackle real issues such as rents etc and might do better than a lot of people expect.
The current Tory government in Britain is completely morally bankrupt. It is unbelievable that so many people voted for them in the last election. Labour will have an easy victory next time as the Tories have completely ran Britain into the ground.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 07/10/2022 10:46:14
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "Yeah I understand that Fianna Fail/ Fine Gael have had a duopoly on power over the last century but I think that Sinn Fein will be in the next government as they are so far ahead in the polls in the Republic now and many only need the help of a few independents/ People Before Profit/ Social Democrats to govern after the next election. It will be a real challenge for Sinn Fein to govern as they will have deal with the economy etc and it is much more difficult to govern than to be in opposition. Yet Sinn Fein will tackle real issues such as rents etc and might do better than a lot of people expect.
The current Tory government in Britain is completely morally bankrupt. It is unbelievable that so many people voted for them in the last election. Labour will have an easy victory next time as the Tories have completely ran Britain into the ground." I dont see how they will be in the next government even if they are doing well in polls now.
Will they actually put enough people up in enough constituencies to be part of government. they would need to run dozens more candidates then they have in recent elections and then majority of them would need to win seats as well as all existing TDs keep theirs.
Would Social Democrats join them as well as many independents?
What gives you the idea SF would tackle rents? How are you suggesting they would do that and what other real issues would they tackle and do better than the others.
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3504 - 08/10/2022 11:08:23
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Replying To KillingFields: "I dont see how they will be in the next government even if they are doing well in polls now.
Will they actually put enough people up in enough constituencies to be part of government. they would need to run dozens more candidates then they have in recent elections and then majority of them would need to win seats as well as all existing TDs keep theirs.
Would Social Democrats join them as well as many independents?
What gives you the idea SF would tackle rents? How are you suggesting they would do that and what other real issues would they tackle and do better than the others." The momentum is with Sinn Fein. They will definitely run a lot more candidates in the next election as they know they lost some seats by not fielding enough candidates. The gap in the polls is very substantial now whereas before the last election the three parties where almost level pegging. That's why I think Sinn Fein will win convincingly. They are good at galvanising support around a cause in the Republic over the rents issue, in the North to get a Nationalist first minister.
Mary Lou McDonald has called on the present Irish government to freeze rents for three years and give renters help with rebates so that will be their policy in government. Sinn Fein will advance the cause of Irish unity by setting up citizens assemblies and making it a key priority of the Irish government. Yes I think they will be in a coalition Government with either People Before Profit and/ or Social Democrats and probably a few independents. Sinn Fein will win a lot more seats as the Irish electorate want a more left wing Government that will effect change in Irish society. People Before Profit/Solidarity will want fundamental change to the economy to support a Sinn Fein Government so probably the next Irish Government could increase corporation tax to get a lot more money for essential services and higher Government spending?? This would regenerate poorer communities. Sinn Fein likes to spend a lot in the North to boost poorer communities but they are limited by the amount in the block grant the UK government gives to Stormont. In the Dail they would have the economic levers to pursue the economic policy they wish.
REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1617 - 09/10/2022 12:47:00
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "The momentum is with Sinn Fein. They will definitely run a lot more candidates in the next election as they know they lost some seats by not fielding enough candidates. The gap in the polls is very substantial now whereas before the last election the three parties where almost level pegging. That's why I think Sinn Fein will win convincingly. They are good at galvanising support around a cause in the Republic over the rents issue, in the North to get a Nationalist first minister.
Mary Lou McDonald has called on the present Irish government to freeze rents for three years and give renters help with rebates so that will be their policy in government. Sinn Fein will advance the cause of Irish unity by setting up citizens assemblies and making it a key priority of the Irish government. Yes I think they will be in a coalition Government with either People Before Profit and/ or Social Democrats and probably a few independents. Sinn Fein will win a lot more seats as the Irish electorate want a more left wing Government that will effect change in Irish society. People Before Profit/Solidarity will want fundamental change to the economy to support a Sinn Fein Government so probably the next Irish Government could increase corporation tax to get a lot more money for essential services and higher Government spending?? This would regenerate poorer communities. Sinn Fein likes to spend a lot in the North to boost poorer communities but they are limited by the amount in the block grant the UK government gives to Stormont. In the Dail they would have the economic levers to pursue the economic policy they wish." God bless your innocence.
Your scenario will turn us into Albania! Imagine Brid Smith or Murphy as Government Ministers!!!
SF 35% = no more than 60 seats.
They'll have cannibalised some of the left and loony left seats so be hard to get this left wing paradise extra 21 seats.
Most likely outcome is SF/FF Coalition.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1410 - 09/10/2022 13:14:12
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "The momentum is with Sinn Fein. They will definitely run a lot more candidates in the next election as they know they lost some seats by not fielding enough candidates. The gap in the polls is very substantial now whereas before the last election the three parties where almost level pegging. That's why I think Sinn Fein will win convincingly. They are good at galvanising support around a cause in the Republic over the rents issue, in the North to get a Nationalist first minister.
Mary Lou McDonald has called on the present Irish government to freeze rents for three years and give renters help with rebates so that will be their policy in government. Sinn Fein will advance the cause of Irish unity by setting up citizens assemblies and making it a key priority of the Irish government. Yes I think they will be in a coalition Government with either People Before Profit and/ or Social Democrats and probably a few independents. Sinn Fein will win a lot more seats as the Irish electorate want a more left wing Government that will effect change in Irish society. People Before Profit/Solidarity will want fundamental change to the economy to support a Sinn Fein Government so probably the next Irish Government could increase corporation tax to get a lot more money for essential services and higher Government spending?? This would regenerate poorer communities. Sinn Fein likes to spend a lot in the North to boost poorer communities but they are limited by the amount in the block grant the UK government gives to Stormont. In the Dail they would have the economic levers to pursue the economic policy they wish." God bless your naivety....
they may run more candidates but wont get near enough of those to win to be in power.
They certainly wont win convincingly.
PBP have never had more than 4 seats and SF wont get enough seats to need just 4 seats as a coalition partner.
social democrats wouldnt join with SF to make a government and again wont get enough seats to help SF make a viable government anyway
What poorer communities would SF help anyway?
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3504 - 09/10/2022 14:43:15
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