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Replying To Doylerwex:  "What a life you've lived Viking and I'm being 100 percent sincere."
Thanks Doyler. I've made the most of my time on the planet. And had a good few lucky breaks along the way. Met alot of very good people too who helped me out no end. Blessed to have 4 great children. I've been a very lucky man.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13846 - 14/11/2024 18:01:06    2579632

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Replying To cavanman47:  ""Prepared to live in town"
"Probably a rough enough area"
"Most require renovation"

You are proving my point.

I don't live in a detached house on half an acre btw. Would I like to? Yes.
Can I afford to? Only if I move location which i don't want to do.

I've cut my cloth to suit. I would expect others to do likewise."
He's not proving your point. People don't want to live in rough areas because they are putting their own personal safety at risk. All well and good until some idiot comes along and assaults you or robs your house. A one bedroom house is useless for families or people who want to start a family.

Rolo2010 (Donegal) - Posts: 745 - 14/11/2024 19:12:40    2579640

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Replying To Viking66:  "If there was a better supply of houses, then there'd be no need for inflationary schemes as prices would be lower. Also I know a good few of the SF people around here, they all work BTW."
Population increase is driving house prices

tommyjohn (Monaghan) - Posts: 62 - 15/11/2024 00:44:50    2579658

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Replying To cavanman47:  "They do.

There's an interactive map and you can click on it county by county. There's also a table that includes 2023 (where the median is up from 36k to 37k).

link"
Thanks for sharing that. I've never actually seen those tables before. This data wasn't published for the last general election when I was working as an economic consultant.

The median is better than the mean but I still have the same concerns I raised before.

There's the consideration Viking mentioned about North Wexford tipping the balance, also the primary employers in the area.

Regardless the average rent is still in the region of 50% of average salary which is almost twice the affordability rule.

I'll reiterate what I said before. It's meant to require hard work to own property. That's grand. The issue is still a lack of supply driving unhealthy competition.

In 06/07 you could walk into a bank on a Saturday morning and walk out with 100% mortgage.

Now you have to save your 10%, find a suitable home, view it, enter a bidding war, lose and repeat until you mortgage offer expires, then start again and you might be lucky enough to succeed within 24 months then begin your renovation of your 70 year old house.

Surely there's a happy medium between these two scenarios?

I'll reiterate again, the state needs to drastically increase supply in the way they did between 30s and 60s.

Declare an emergency, temporarily bypass planning system, rezone land, issue compulsory purchase orders and build build build. I'd rather they be Irish construction firms bit of they start gouging we import labour for it. It just needs to be solved.

This takes the pressure off the private rental market, regulates price and increases supply for first time buyers. Once this problem is solved we'll see people calm down about immigration too. The problem they're looking for someone to blame for will be gone.

The labour party let everyone down in the 10s but I hope they do well now as they have the most practical housing plan.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3142 - 15/11/2024 07:18:25    2579663

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Replying To cavanman47:  "They do.

There's an interactive map and you can click on it county by county. There's also a table that includes 2023 (where the median is up from 36k to 37k).

link"
Sorry I should mention I do agree with you on some things. I am aware of a cohort of people who never stop complaining about housing but drive a brand new Audi on PCP finance acting the big fella. 100% those people exist but I don't believe they're the majority.

Our economy would be better off overall if the cost of housing meets that affordability ratio. We'd be much better able to cope with inflation and consumer spending would go up benefiting everyone.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3142 - 15/11/2024 07:24:45    2579664

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Very interesting team Mr Trump is cobbling together. All extremists in their particular fields so far. A conservative Fox News talk show host as Defense Sec - wonder what the generals think of this - the most incredulous so far, followed by the "rogue "Kenneddy. Most of his legal team being slotted into the various legal departments. If Musk does as good a job as he did with X, then god help them over there. It will be eagerly watched to see how many of the prosecutors who pursued him for the last few years remain in position. Founding Father's checks and balances system hold up.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1264 - 15/11/2024 08:03:22    2579666

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Very interesting team Mr Trump is cobbling together. All extremists in their particular fields so far. A conservative Fox News talk show host as Defense Sec - wonder what the generals think of this - the most incredulous so far, followed by the "rogue "Kenneddy. Most of his legal team being slotted into the various legal departments. If Musk does as good a job as he did with X, then god help them over there. It will be eagerly watched to see how many of the prosecutors who pursued him for the last few years remain in position. Founding Father's checks and balances system hold up."
And Matt Gaetz. It's mind boggling stuff.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8155 - 15/11/2024 09:14:24    2579681

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Replying To tommyjohn:  "Population increase is driving house prices"
Only because supply isn't keeping up with demand. Our population is increasing as our economy grows. It's really not rocket science.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13846 - 15/11/2024 09:20:07    2579683

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "
Replying To cavanman47:  "They do.

There's an interactive map and you can click on it county by county. There's also a table that includes 2023 (where the median is up from 36k to 37k).

link"
Thanks for sharing that. I've never actually seen those tables before. This data wasn't published for the last general election when I was working as an economic consultant.

The median is better than the mean but I still have the same concerns I raised before.

There's the consideration Viking mentioned about North Wexford tipping the balance, also the primary employers in the area.

Regardless the average rent is still in the region of 50% of average salary which is almost twice the affordability rule.

I'll reiterate what I said before. It's meant to require hard work to own property. That's grand. The issue is still a lack of supply driving unhealthy competition.

In 06/07 you could walk into a bank on a Saturday morning and walk out with 100% mortgage.

Now you have to save your 10%, find a suitable home, view it, enter a bidding war, lose and repeat until you mortgage offer expires, then start again and you might be lucky enough to succeed within 24 months then begin your renovation of your 70 year old house.

Surely there's a happy medium between these two scenarios?

I'll reiterate again, the state needs to drastically increase supply in the way they did between 30s and 60s.

Declare an emergency, temporarily bypass planning system, rezone land, issue compulsory purchase orders and build build build. I'd rather they be Irish construction firms bit of they start gouging we import labour for it. It just needs to be solved.

This takes the pressure off the private rental market, regulates price and increases supply for first time buyers. Once this problem is solved we'll see people calm down about immigration too. The problem they're looking for someone to blame for will be gone.

The labour party let everyone down in the 10s but I hope they do well now as they have the most practical housing plan."
Great post

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13846 - 15/11/2024 09:20:56    2579684

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "
Replying To cavanman47:  "They do.

There's an interactive map and you can click on it county by county. There's also a table that includes 2023 (where the median is up from 36k to 37k).

link"
Thanks for sharing that. I've never actually seen those tables before. This data wasn't published for the last general election when I was working as an economic consultant.

The median is better than the mean but I still have the same concerns I raised before.

There's the consideration Viking mentioned about North Wexford tipping the balance, also the primary employers in the area.

Regardless the average rent is still in the region of 50% of average salary which is almost twice the affordability rule.

I'll reiterate what I said before. It's meant to require hard work to own property. That's grand. The issue is still a lack of supply driving unhealthy competition.

In 06/07 you could walk into a bank on a Saturday morning and walk out with 100% mortgage.

Now you have to save your 10%, find a suitable home, view it, enter a bidding war, lose and repeat until you mortgage offer expires, then start again and you might be lucky enough to succeed within 24 months then begin your renovation of your 70 year old house.

Surely there's a happy medium between these two scenarios?

I'll reiterate again, the state needs to drastically increase supply in the way they did between 30s and 60s.

Declare an emergency, temporarily bypass planning system, rezone land, issue compulsory purchase orders and build build build. I'd rather they be Irish construction firms bit of they start gouging we import labour for it. It just needs to be solved.

This takes the pressure off the private rental market, regulates price and increases supply for first time buyers. Once this problem is solved we'll see people calm down about immigration too. The problem they're looking for someone to blame for will be gone.

The labour party let everyone down in the 10s but I hope they do well now as they have the most practical housing plan."
Your suggestion works in theory.

But the construction sector is crying out for workers as it is, so you're looking at importing labour straight away. Where do these workers live? Hmm. .it seems we do need that private rental sector after all.

Bypassing planning laws and mass CPOs are also great in theory. But why do you think government hasn't gone down this route before now and no opposition party has suggested it? Perhaps because of the protests that would follow?

It is something that I think I've mentioned on here before. . .and I only see it working if it's rolled out as a "we're all in this together" plan. (i.e. every constituency and every decent sized town is proportionally impacted). But bypassing planning is a no no IMO. Just speed up the planning process by resourcing An Bord Pleannála (and ESB, Irish Water, CoCos, etc.).

Also. . .what exactly is affordable in this instance? Considering how much the government is spending per unit on the few houses they're building currently (€442k), what would these houses cost? How much of this gets paid by the purchaser, and how much gets paid by the state (i.e. Johnny taxpayer who hasn't been given the same hand-out)?

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5191 - 15/11/2024 10:42:07    2579696

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Replying To Freethinker:  "Very interesting team Mr Trump is cobbling together. All extremists in their particular fields so far. A conservative Fox News talk show host as Defense Sec - wonder what the generals think of this - the most incredulous so far, followed by the "rogue "Kenneddy. Most of his legal team being slotted into the various legal departments. If Musk does as good a job as he did with X, then god help them over there. It will be eagerly watched to see how many of the prosecutors who pursued him for the last few years remain in position. Founding Father's checks and balances system hold up."
Crazy the way American voters ignored the concerns of Irish liberals. What were they thinking?

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 15/11/2024 10:50:40    2579698

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Replying To cavanman47:  "
Replying To Doylerwex:  "[quote=cavanman47:  "They do.

There's an interactive map and you can click on it county by county. There's also a table that includes 2023 (where the median is up from 36k to 37k).

link"
Thanks for sharing that. I've never actually seen those tables before. This data wasn't published for the last general election when I was working as an economic consultant.

The median is better than the mean but I still have the same concerns I raised before.

There's the consideration Viking mentioned about North Wexford tipping the balance, also the primary employers in the area.

Regardless the average rent is still in the region of 50% of average salary which is almost twice the affordability rule.

I'll reiterate what I said before. It's meant to require hard work to own property. That's grand. The issue is still a lack of supply driving unhealthy competition.

In 06/07 you could walk into a bank on a Saturday morning and walk out with 100% mortgage.

Now you have to save your 10%, find a suitable home, view it, enter a bidding war, lose and repeat until you mortgage offer expires, then start again and you might be lucky enough to succeed within 24 months then begin your renovation of your 70 year old house.

Surely there's a happy medium between these two scenarios?

I'll reiterate again, the state needs to drastically increase supply in the way they did between 30s and 60s.

Declare an emergency, temporarily bypass planning system, rezone land, issue compulsory purchase orders and build build build. I'd rather they be Irish construction firms bit of they start gouging we import labour for it. It just needs to be solved.

This takes the pressure off the private rental market, regulates price and increases supply for first time buyers. Once this problem is solved we'll see people calm down about immigration too. The problem they're looking for someone to blame for will be gone.

The labour party let everyone down in the 10s but I hope they do well now as they have the most practical housing plan."
Your suggestion works in theory.

But the construction sector is crying out for workers as it is, so you're looking at importing labour straight away. Where do these workers live? Hmm. .it seems we do need that private rental sector after all.

Bypassing planning laws and mass CPOs are also great in theory. But why do you think government hasn't gone down this route before now and no opposition party has suggested it? Perhaps because of the protests that would follow?

It is something that I think I've mentioned on here before. . .and I only see it working if it's rolled out as a "we're all in this together" plan. (i.e. every constituency and every decent sized town is proportionally impacted). But bypassing planning is a no no IMO. Just speed up the planning process by resourcing An Bord Pleannála (and ESB, Irish Water, CoCos, etc.).

Also. . .what exactly is affordable in this instance? Considering how much the government is spending per unit on the few houses they're building currently (€442k), what would these houses cost? How much of this gets paid by the purchaser, and how much gets paid by the state (i.e. Johnny taxpayer who hasn't been given the same hand-out)?"]There's something seriously wrong with the government paying that money to build cheap houses. Do they all come with a bike shed?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13846 - 15/11/2024 10:56:19    2579700

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Replying To Viking66:  "Only because supply isn't keeping up with demand. Our population is increasing as our economy grows. It's really not rocket science."
No shortage of food in the shops.....
Because the supply is keeping up with population increase demand!

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1949 - 15/11/2024 11:00:09    2579702

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "No shortage of food in the shops.....
Because the supply is keeping up with population increase demand!"
It's almost like market forces...are being manipulated. Why would anyone do that? Who would? Certainly can't imagine it being our honest, hardworking government of altruists

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12198 - 15/11/2024 11:23:36    2579708

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "No shortage of food in the shops.....
Because the supply is keeping up with population increase demand!"
Exactly that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13846 - 15/11/2024 11:38:30    2579711

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Replying To Breffni40:  "It's almost like market forces...are being manipulated. Why would anyone do that? Who would? Certainly can't imagine it being our honest, hardworking government of altruists"
Why would Government want housing shortages as a stick to beat themselves with?

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1949 - 15/11/2024 12:03:20    2579714

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Replying To cavanman47:  "
Replying To Doylerwex:  "[quote=cavanman47:  "They do.

There's an interactive map and you can click on it county by county. There's also a table that includes 2023 (where the median is up from 36k to 37k).

link"
Thanks for sharing that. I've never actually seen those tables before. This data wasn't published for the last general election when I was working as an economic consultant.

The median is better than the mean but I still have the same concerns I raised before.

There's the consideration Viking mentioned about North Wexford tipping the balance, also the primary employers in the area.

Regardless the average rent is still in the region of 50% of average salary which is almost twice the affordability rule.

I'll reiterate what I said before. It's meant to require hard work to own property. That's grand. The issue is still a lack of supply driving unhealthy competition.

In 06/07 you could walk into a bank on a Saturday morning and walk out with 100% mortgage.

Now you have to save your 10%, find a suitable home, view it, enter a bidding war, lose and repeat until you mortgage offer expires, then start again and you might be lucky enough to succeed within 24 months then begin your renovation of your 70 year old house.

Surely there's a happy medium between these two scenarios?

I'll reiterate again, the state needs to drastically increase supply in the way they did between 30s and 60s.

Declare an emergency, temporarily bypass planning system, rezone land, issue compulsory purchase orders and build build build. I'd rather they be Irish construction firms bit of they start gouging we import labour for it. It just needs to be solved.

This takes the pressure off the private rental market, regulates price and increases supply for first time buyers. Once this problem is solved we'll see people calm down about immigration too. The problem they're looking for someone to blame for will be gone.

The labour party let everyone down in the 10s but I hope they do well now as they have the most practical housing plan."
Your suggestion works in theory.

But the construction sector is crying out for workers as it is, so you're looking at importing labour straight away. Where do these workers live? Hmm. .it seems we do need that private rental sector after all.

Bypassing planning laws and mass CPOs are also great in theory. But why do you think government hasn't gone down this route before now and no opposition party has suggested it? Perhaps because of the protests that would follow?

It is something that I think I've mentioned on here before. . .and I only see it working if it's rolled out as a "we're all in this together" plan. (i.e. every constituency and every decent sized town is proportionally impacted). But bypassing planning is a no no IMO. Just speed up the planning process by resourcing An Bord Pleannála (and ESB, Irish Water, CoCos, etc.).

Also. . .what exactly is affordable in this instance? Considering how much the government is spending per unit on the few houses they're building currently (€442k), what would these houses cost? How much of this gets paid by the purchaser, and how much gets paid by the state (i.e. Johnny taxpayer who hasn't been given the same hand-out)?"]That 442k number is absolutely outrageous.

How can it be costing more to build than the average property price you cited?

According to the SCSI figures the highest rebuild sum for a 3 bed terraced house is Dublin at 2,915 while the lowest is 2,231 in the North West. This includes professional fees which government projects don't need for each unit. i.e you could build a million homes off one set of plans.

There are more economical methods than traditional bricks and mortar too.

There must be unemployed contractors somewhere. Europe is in recession. Put it out to tender.

Without building anything there are 10,000 people homeless and 82,000 vacant properties on the island.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3142 - 15/11/2024 12:16:39    2579717

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Immigration is the main driver of housing demand so solution is to import more migrants to build more houses for migrants?

Is this supposed to make sense?

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 15/11/2024 12:27:52    2579721

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Crazy the way American voters ignored the concerns of Irish liberals. What were they thinking?"
I suppose, time will tell.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1264 - 15/11/2024 12:44:23    2579726

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "No shortage of food in the shops.....
Because the supply is keeping up with population increase demand!"
That's overly simplistic and not at all comparable.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3049 - 15/11/2024 12:52:15    2579728

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