National Forum

Non-Gaa Forum

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To cavanman47:  "He wouldn't make the squad ahead of the 3 keepers there. They are all starting regularly for their clubs.

Ferguson, if he got a run of games and regains full fitness, might be good enough to make it. They're light on that kind of big target man after Kane.
Nathan Collins has the potential too, but if picking a 23 man england squad today, he wouldn't make it."
Be realistic, if Carsley picked a 23 man squad of defenders only and Collins was eligible he wouldn't make the cut. He's been average at best over past 18 months, Our squad is so average that qualifying for a major tournament by 2034 is extremely unlikely and that's including Euros of 32 teams. Scotland are average too but they're significantly better than us with individuals like McTominay, McGinn, Robertson, Gilmour and Armstrong. We've only got the aforementioned Collins as a regular Premiership starter.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1815 - 09/09/2024 00:33:05    2569005

Link

Replying To Claretandblue:  "Be realistic, if Carsley picked a 23 man squad of defenders only and Collins was eligible he wouldn't make the cut. He's been average at best over past 18 months, Our squad is so average that qualifying for a major tournament by 2034 is extremely unlikely and that's including Euros of 32 teams. Scotland are average too but they're significantly better than us with individuals like McTominay, McGinn, Robertson, Gilmour and Armstrong. We've only got the aforementioned Collins as a regular Premiership starter."
It does look as if we are short on quality in recent years. All those much heralded arrivals towards the end of the Kenny era, members of his u21 squads etc, just don't seem to be able to cut it at senior international level. Our lads seem a yard off the pace and slower to think and react. The lads were continually beaten to loose balls when they seemed to have a yard or two advantage. One of them on Saturday looked as if the ball got jammed between his feet and by the time he got it out and controlled, the chance was gone. I think we are in for a prolonged barren spell at this level.

Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1174 - 09/09/2024 09:43:21    2569030

Link

The days when we shipped our brightest talents across the water for the English clubs to develop for us are over.
What with Brexit, and English clubs casting their nets all over the world for talent these days, our best young players simply don't get the same chances and opportunities as before.

Solution: Develop from within. The FAI needs more and more coaches nation wide developing our best players. There's no magic wand. It would take a good bit of investment and planning. Infrastructure would have to be improved across the country. I would even suggest 4 regional centres of excellence like the English have at St, Georges Park or the French have at Clarefontaine.

Perhaps Morocco are an even better example. After France 98 they didn;t qualify for another World Cup until 2018, and they missed a few AFCONs in that time as well. So they got their act together and their various national teams are now prospering. Whether the FAI & government would have the gumption or competence to do something similar is doubtful though.

https://www.fifa.com/en/news/articles/reasons-behind-the-revolution-of-moroccan-football#:~:text=Moroccan%20football%20has%20prospered%20in,%E2%84%A2%2C%20and%20the%20U%2D23s

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9453 - 09/09/2024 11:43:56    2569050

Link

Replying To Lockjaw:  "The days when we shipped our brightest talents across the water for the English clubs to develop for us are over.
What with Brexit, and English clubs casting their nets all over the world for talent these days, our best young players simply don't get the same chances and opportunities as before.

Solution: Develop from within. The FAI needs more and more coaches nation wide developing our best players. There's no magic wand. It would take a good bit of investment and planning. Infrastructure would have to be improved across the country. I would even suggest 4 regional centres of excellence like the English have at St, Georges Park or the French have at Clarefontaine.

Perhaps Morocco are an even better example. After France 98 they didn;t qualify for another World Cup until 2018, and they missed a few AFCONs in that time as well. So they got their act together and their various national teams are now prospering. Whether the FAI & government would have the gumption or competence to do something similar is doubtful though.

https://www.fifa.com/en/news/articles/reasons-behind-the-revolution-of-moroccan-football#:~:text=Moroccan%20football%20has%20prospered%20in,%E2%84%A2%2C%20and%20the%20U%2D23s"
You're right but none of that will happen until the Irish football public realises that there is a link between us continually pumping millions and millions of Euro into the British Football Economy and our decline at international level. No other country has fallen as far in the FIFA rankings as Ireland in the past 30 years I think.

Over the past 30 years we've part-funded the improvements made in England.

We'll continue to decline in my opinion, unless there is a major cultural shift in Irish soccer fandom. Even with a perfectly run FAI, it doesn't really matter if there is no money in the Irish football industry.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13777 - 09/09/2024 12:30:37    2569064

Link

Replying To Claretandblue:  "Be realistic, if Carsley picked a 23 man squad of defenders only and Collins was eligible he wouldn't make the cut. He's been average at best over past 18 months, Our squad is so average that qualifying for a major tournament by 2034 is extremely unlikely and that's including Euros of 32 teams. Scotland are average too but they're significantly better than us with individuals like McTominay, McGinn, Robertson, Gilmour and Armstrong. We've only got the aforementioned Collins as a regular Premiership starter."
I would say we would qualify for a Euro finals with 32 teams in the timeline you've given. But it won't mean a thing. It would just mean we would get beaten in nearly every game and finish bottom of the group. When the Euro finals goes to 32 team the first group phase will be a borefest until teams at our level are knocked out. But I suppose "the best fans in the world" will have mighty craic on the beer and that's all it will be about.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 09/09/2024 13:07:42    2569072

Link

I don't understand how Robbie Brady gets near this team, he's there for set pieces it seems mainly and he can't even beat the first man when taking a corner or free.

For a big man Idah is very easily shunted off the ball.

Coleman and Doherty are finished too.

eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 235 - 10/09/2024 11:40:19    2569232

Link

Replying To eslinchickenmaryland:  "I don't understand how Robbie Brady gets near this team, he's there for set pieces it seems mainly and he can't even beat the first man when taking a corner or free.

For a big man Idah is very easily shunted off the ball.

Coleman and Doherty are finished too."
Doherty has been poor for years. Coleman still worth his place.

Agreed re Idah. Somedays he looks really strong and others, like Saturday, he can't hold it up at all. I think it could be more touch related the strength. His first touch isn't great and therefore he is off balance trying to control it so not able to use his size.

U21 game is live tonight. Some great prospects there, but like any underage team you will still only get 2 or 3 from them.

The promising thing is, all our underage are doing well now so hopefully we will get the 2 or 3 every year.

That is why our senior team is poor. There was a number of years we produced no one and that will take time to work its way out of the system.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1881 - 10/09/2024 12:13:17    2569241

Link

Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I would say we would qualify for a Euro finals with 32 teams in the timeline you've given. But it won't mean a thing. It would just mean we would get beaten in nearly every game and finish bottom of the group. When the Euro finals goes to 32 team the first group phase will be a borefest until teams at our level are knocked out. But I suppose "the best fans in the world" will have mighty craic on the beer and that's all it will be about."
Any further thoughts on us making top 32 based on tonight's abject display?

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1815 - 10/09/2024 21:49:12    2569325

Link

Replying To Claretandblue:  "Any further thoughts on us making top 32 based on tonight's abject display?"
How would the Greece or England results change that? They're both better than us and have both beaten the other team in our group too.

We're in group B of the nations league which essentially means we've made the top 32 in Europe.

If you took another form of rankings based on recent historic results, we're the 28th ranked European team based on the FIFA world rankings.

So, while not very good, we are in the top 32 teams in Europe currently.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5115 - 11/09/2024 06:24:53    2569336

Link

Replying To Lockjaw:  "The days when we shipped our brightest talents across the water for the English clubs to develop for us are over.
What with Brexit, and English clubs casting their nets all over the world for talent these days, our best young players simply don't get the same chances and opportunities as before.

Solution: Develop from within. The FAI needs more and more coaches nation wide developing our best players. There's no magic wand. It would take a good bit of investment and planning. Infrastructure would have to be improved across the country. I would even suggest 4 regional centres of excellence like the English have at St, Georges Park or the French have at Clarefontaine.

Perhaps Morocco are an even better example. After France 98 they didn;t qualify for another World Cup until 2018, and they missed a few AFCONs in that time as well. So they got their act together and their various national teams are now prospering. Whether the FAI & government would have the gumption or competence to do something similar is doubtful though.

https://www.fifa.com/en/news/articles/reasons-behind-the-revolution-of-moroccan-football#:~:text=Moroccan%20football%20has%20prospered%20in,%E2%84%A2%2C%20and%20the%20U%2D23s"
The Morocco example is interesting. However soccer is the most popular sport in Morocco and they have a population of 37 million.

As I've said people the elephant in the room here is the GAA which is engrained I got hr Irish psyche like no other sport. Every village and town has a GAA club and it's the nations favourite sport.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11375 - 11/09/2024 08:39:13    2569348

Link

Doherty seemingly booed when he came on as a substitute, Smallbone booed when awarded man of the match. Now neither of these may be good decisions but when did booing your own players become a thing amongst some Irish fans, this isn't the premier league

eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 235 - 11/09/2024 09:30:25    2569352

Link

How people keep paying to go and watch Irish international football is beyond me.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2048 - 11/09/2024 09:51:05    2569362

Link

Replying To eslinchickenmaryland:  "Doherty seemingly booed when he came on as a substitute, Smallbone booed when awarded man of the match. Now neither of these may be good decisions but when did booing your own players become a thing amongst some Irish fans, this isn't the premier league"
I would think the booing of Smallbone was not against the player as such but against this nonsense of giving an Ireland "Player of the Match award" when Ireland lose a game and lose it badly at that. It is so ridiculous and even embarassing for the player receiving the award. It should be scrapped immediately. If they want, give it to an Irish player when we win and sometimes when we draw (especially if the draw is against a higher ranked team or we get an away draw) but NEVER when we lose.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1946 - 11/09/2024 10:13:37    2569366

Link

Replying To yew_tree:  "The Morocco example is interesting. However soccer is the most popular sport in Morocco and they have a population of 37 million.

As I've said people the elephant in the room here is the GAA which is engrained I got hr Irish psyche like no other sport. Every village and town has a GAA club and it's the nations favourite sport."
Georgia is a similar example in terms of population

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12161 - 11/09/2024 10:34:27    2569372

Link

Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "I would think the booing of Smallbone was not against the player as such but against this nonsense of giving an Ireland "Player of the Match award" when Ireland lose a game and lose it badly at that. It is so ridiculous and even embarassing for the player receiving the award. It should be scrapped immediately. If they want, give it to an Irish player when we win and sometimes when we draw (especially if the draw is against a higher ranked team or we get an away draw) but NEVER when we lose."
Agreed, I think it is solely there to give sponsors a bit of free ad time.

eslinchickenmaryland (Leitrim) - Posts: 235 - 11/09/2024 11:08:40    2569382

Link

Replying To Breffni40:  "Georgia is a similar example in terms of population"
Denmark also and they've been very competitive for the past decade. We're paying for the neglect of the past decade or more, so I don't see things changing any time soon.
I'll reiterate the point I made about the atmosphere at internationals over the past few years. It has changed from what used to be a natural passionate crowd, regardless of how good, bad of indifferent we were, to something very manufactured which seems to copy a lot of what's in English football. The booing of our own players is another example of this.
It is getting to the point where our players will dread international games, similar to how many English players have expressed the same over the past 20 years. Irish players by contrast, used to say how they relished coming over for the international breaks. That was even during times where we weren't very competitive.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2147 - 11/09/2024 11:20:25    2569386

Link

Replying To Breffni40:  "Georgia is a similar example in terms of population"
Uruguay and Croatia are other good examples. But I accept the point that none of these countries have the GAA.
But even if we had one national centre of excellence based in the midlands for example. I'm talking about a modern facility which not only includes good sporting infrastructure, but also has quality accommodation for players, coaches and administrators. It would also need to have an educational aspect, so that young players who attend also have their school educational requirements met.

Forge links with various clubs in Ireland, the UK and in Europe where a pathway can be established for the elite players who come through the system. Perhaps most importantly of all, develop a system whereby players who don't make it as professionals receive career guidance. If they still want to remain in the game, have a system where they can obtain their coaching badges and they then become the coaches of future young players coming though.

These are just ideas off the top of my head. It would need lots of money and planning. But surely something that is achievable?

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9453 - 11/09/2024 11:22:11    2569387

Link

Replying To Lockjaw:  "Uruguay and Croatia are other good examples. But I accept the point that none of these countries have the GAA.
But even if we had one national centre of excellence based in the midlands for example. I'm talking about a modern facility which not only includes good sporting infrastructure, but also has quality accommodation for players, coaches and administrators. It would also need to have an educational aspect, so that young players who attend also have their school educational requirements met.

Forge links with various clubs in Ireland, the UK and in Europe where a pathway can be established for the elite players who come through the system. Perhaps most importantly of all, develop a system whereby players who don't make it as professionals receive career guidance. If they still want to remain in the game, have a system where they can obtain their coaching badges and they then become the coaches of future young players coming though.

These are just ideas off the top of my head. It would need lots of money and planning. But surely something that is achievable?"
https://it.uefa.com/news-media/news/0264-110a215867e9-2855d9aa0d03-1000--georgia-s-innovative-elite-youth-player-development-prog/?s=03

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12161 - 11/09/2024 12:13:23    2569393

Link

Replying To cavanman47:  "How would the Greece or England results change that? They're both better than us and have both beaten the other team in our group too.

We're in group B of the nations league which essentially means we've made the top 32 in Europe.

If you took another form of rankings based on recent historic results, we're the 28th ranked European team based on the FIFA world rankings.

So, while not very good, we are in the top 32 teams in Europe currently."
Group B of the nations league for how long more? There's no way we're currently 28th in Europe after run of results recently.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 1815 - 11/09/2024 12:23:50    2569395

Link

One great thing about this new Nation's League competition is that it leaves no room for delusion about where you rank. You are where you are, you are what you are.

Have Ireland produced a midfielder since Roy Keane? We seem to be looking at these 'no name' midfielders for ten years now, and in decent international terms, they're all useless. I wouldn't name any of them, because I don't know who they are!!

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3829 - 11/09/2024 13:04:56    2569406

Link