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Replying To TheFlaker:  "I will throw one stat at you as you haven't produced one actual fact only hearsay. For the year 20-21 the number of Irish exemptions in secondary schools rose by 43 per cent. It has increased further since. I used that year because it is pre Ukraine conflict. Feel free to try and debate this with me. It's clearly a topic you are absolutely clueless on."
Difficult to debate when my responses are not posted.

I know from teachers that most African in some north Dublin schools take exemptions from exams in Irish.

The argument that non nationals are less likely to take exemptions makes no common sense apart from anything else. Only fools believe that they are other than in a small minority interested in any part of Irish culture. They come here because we speak English and are culturally anglicised for the most part.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3275 - 06/06/2024 17:09:26    2549888

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Replying To Viking66:  "They aren't running it for London, they are running it for the Irish people who voted for them."
PSF are now leading a British Parliament in a partitioned Ireland, they sold out everything they ever stood for, anyone who thinks different is delusional imo.
it wasn't worth what all they volunteers an everyone else went thorough so as they could have their cushy jobs while paying lip service to the united Ireland cause, same as the major parties down south have done for the last 100 years.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3066 - 06/06/2024 17:14:53    2549889

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Difficult to debate when my responses are not posted.

I know from teachers that most African in some north Dublin schools take exemptions from exams in Irish.

The argument that non nationals are less likely to take exemptions makes no common sense apart from anything else. Only fools believe that they are other than in a small minority interested in any part of Irish culture. They come here because we speak English and are culturally anglicised for the most part."
Who said non nationals were less likely to take exemptions? Where did i say that? You are just moving the goalposts now.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8208 - 06/06/2024 19:19:42    2549904

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Difficult to debate when my responses are not posted.

I know from teachers that most African in some north Dublin schools take exemptions from exams in Irish.

The argument that non nationals are less likely to take exemptions makes no common sense apart from anything else. Only fools believe that they are other than in a small minority interested in any part of Irish culture. They come here because we speak English and are culturally anglicised for the most part."
Have you any stats Barney? You did say yourself that you didnt put any pass on heresay several times on this thread.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14234 - 06/06/2024 19:31:13    2549907

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "PSF are now leading a British Parliament in a partitioned Ireland, they sold out everything they ever stood for, anyone who thinks different is delusional imo.
it wasn't worth what all they volunteers an everyone else went thorough so as they could have their cushy jobs while paying lip service to the united Ireland cause, same as the major parties down south have done for the last 100 years."
Were you involved in the armed struggle? Did you live in the 6 counties while it was going on? If the answer to those 2 questions is no then what right have you to criticise the majority of those who were, and did, when they decide to try and pursue a different path to their objectives? And if your answer is yes then you will know that you were and are in a small minority with that view you just posted, a minority that isn't offering any viable alternative currently.
What would you propose as a viable alternative? The DUP approach of boycotts etc? A return to the armed struggle? I'd be genuinely interested if you have some well thought out plan that has escaped everyone else.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14234 - 06/06/2024 19:39:57    2549909

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "PSF are now leading a British Parliament in a partitioned Ireland, they sold out everything they ever stood for, anyone who thinks different is delusional imo.
it wasn't worth what all they volunteers an everyone else went thorough so as they could have their cushy jobs while paying lip service to the united Ireland cause, same as the major parties down south have done for the last 100 years."
Did you want the violence to continue?
90% of the people who lived in Ireland in the 70s, 80s and 90% were opposed to their violence.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2017 - 06/06/2024 20:11:29    2549916

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Difficult to debate when my responses are not posted.

I know from teachers that most African in some north Dublin schools take exemptions from exams in Irish.

The argument that non nationals are less likely to take exemptions makes no common sense apart from anything else. Only fools believe that they are other than in a small minority interested in any part of Irish culture. They come here because we speak English and are culturally anglicised for the most part."
These amazing teachers that you know, tell me this, they only mentioned Africans did they? Are the chinese and Indian children knocking Irish out of the ball park? Absolutely hilarious that you focused in on a particular group there for absolutely no reason.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8208 - 06/06/2024 23:14:52    2549931

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "These amazing teachers that you know, tell me this, they only mentioned Africans did they? Are the chinese and Indian children knocking Irish out of the ball park? Absolutely hilarious that you focused in on a particular group there for absolutely no reason."
It's all looking like there is a reason with Barney.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14234 - 07/06/2024 06:31:08    2549939

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Replying To Viking66:  "It's all looking like there is a reason with Barney."
It was heading that way a few pages back and I stopped myself from saying it.

I need not have worried. The gript revelation said it better than I ever could have.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5215 - 07/06/2024 14:34:46    2550010

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Did you want the violence to continue?
90% of the people who lived in Ireland in the 70s, 80s and 90% were opposed to their violence."
I don't know about your 90% figure, I'd imagine support across the island was a lot higher than that in the early 70's anyway and even on until the hunger strikes/elections in '81.
What we have now wasn't worth one drop of blood, the British border is still in place in Ireland, in fact Brexit done more for the united Ireland cause than SF and the armed struggle ever did.
My point is with the current state of affairs is what was it all for? they might as well have followed Hume's leadership if all they wanted was to get into power in Stormont.
They are already taking their seats and pay from his Majesty's Gov to sit in Stormont, they might as well go all in and do it right and sit in Westminster too.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3066 - 07/06/2024 15:10:24    2550019

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Replying To Viking66:  "Were you involved in the armed struggle? Did you live in the 6 counties while it was going on? If the answer to those 2 questions is no then what right have you to criticise the majority of those who were, and did, when they decide to try and pursue a different path to their objectives? And if your answer is yes then you will know that you were and are in a small minority with that view you just posted, a minority that isn't offering any viable alternative currently.
What would you propose as a viable alternative? The DUP approach of boycotts etc? A return to the armed struggle? I'd be genuinely interested if you have some well thought out plan that has escaped everyone else."
What path are they following exactly Viking? All I see is them doing the exact opposite of everything they once stood for, what do call people like that? hypocrites? sell outs?

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3066 - 07/06/2024 15:14:57    2550021

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I don't know about your 90% figure, I'd imagine support across the island was a lot higher than that in the early 70's anyway and even on until the hunger strikes/elections in '81.
What we have now wasn't worth one drop of blood, the British border is still in place in Ireland, in fact Brexit done more for the united Ireland cause than SF and the armed struggle ever did.
My point is with the current state of affairs is what was it all for? they might as well have followed Hume's leadership if all they wanted was to get into power in Stormont.
They are already taking their seats and pay from his Majesty's Gov to sit in Stormont, they might as well go all in and do it right and sit in Westminster too."
The feeling amongst most people voting for them was that if they don't take their seats they can't represent the people.
Last I checked Stormont is in Ireland BTW. There's nothing British about it. There are no MLAs elected to it from Britain. It solely represents Irish people, who were largely born on the Island of Ireland, and has no jurisdiction over any part of Britain.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14234 - 07/06/2024 15:27:47    2550031

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "What path are they following exactly Viking? All I see is them doing the exact opposite of everything they once stood for, what do call people like that? hypocrites? sell outs?"
Doing exactly the opposite in what way? And you still didn't answer the question I asked you earlier- what alternative policies could they pursue that would actually help bring about a 32 county Republic of Ireland?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14234 - 07/06/2024 15:29:59    2550034

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "I don't know about your 90% figure, I'd imagine support across the island was a lot higher than that in the early 70's anyway and even on until the hunger strikes/elections in '81.
What we have now wasn't worth one drop of blood, the British border is still in place in Ireland, in fact Brexit done more for the united Ireland cause than SF and the armed struggle ever did.
My point is with the current state of affairs is what was it all for? they might as well have followed Hume's leadership if all they wanted was to get into power in Stormont.
They are already taking their seats and pay from his Majesty's Gov to sit in Stormont, they might as well go all in and do it right and sit in Westminster too."
You're not wrong, but yes. . The 'current state of affairs' is immeasurably better than it was in the 1960s thru 90s.

Remember, the troubles started following the heavy-handed response to a peaceful civil rights march. Not an independence or break-away march.

The reason SF, and not the SDLP, are more popular is because the do strive for more than this (even if they have accepted a situation currently where they're pretty helpless to push for it).

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5215 - 07/06/2024 15:32:33    2550037

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "What path are they following exactly Viking? All I see is them doing the exact opposite of everything they once stood for, what do call people like that? hypocrites? sell outs?"
Realists.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2017 - 07/06/2024 15:40:55    2550038

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "These amazing teachers that you know, tell me this, they only mentioned Africans did they? Are the chinese and Indian children knocking Irish out of the ball park? Absolutely hilarious that you focused in on a particular group there for absolutely no reason."
So, you're suggesting that academic excellence is divided completely evenly among all ethnicities and to think otherwise is racist. Is it actually the case that there is no disparity at all?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1942 - 07/06/2024 15:58:34    2550044

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Replying To Galway9801:  "So, you're suggesting that academic excellence is divided completely evenly among all ethnicities and to think otherwise is racist. Is it actually the case that there is no disparity at all?"
Oh look who landed to the debate without seeing all the previous posts from myself and Barney. That's not what i was saying at all. And if you think Barney was going into that much detail using that example you are as funny as he is.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8208 - 07/06/2024 16:21:23    2550050

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Replying To Galway9801:  "So, you're suggesting that academic excellence is divided completely evenly among all ethnicities and to think otherwise is racist. Is it actually the case that there is no disparity at all?"
Perhaps you should change your pseudonym to "Mississipi 1956"

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2017 - 07/06/2024 16:49:09    2550056

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Replying To Galway9801:  "So, you're suggesting that academic excellence is divided completely evenly among all ethnicities and to think otherwise is racist. Is it actually the case that there is no disparity at all?"
Environment plays a much bigger role than genetics in determining academic excellence. Fine for people from economically rich countries (or areas within countries) to be saying who's intelligent and who isn't. The British thought we were a sub species more closely related to apes and with low IQs and that was taken as fact. Yet it was poverty and social disadvantage that held back Irish people educationally. Read the Eternal Paddy on how we were viewed as this genetically dysfunctional race in British mainstream media at the time.

MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1000 - 07/06/2024 17:50:49    2550067

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Perhaps you should change your pseudonym to "Mississipi 1956""
The moderators didn't put up my answer to that post but you are spot on. I'll modify my post and try again.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14234 - 07/06/2024 17:55:36    2550068

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