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Replying To Breffni40:  "Yeah ive been convinced. Nothing can be done. People just need to work harder and harder and harder while the prices go up up up and their income remains the same.

People will die homeless on the streets but we'll still have an economy, which of course is the only reason for living!

The only reason families are sleeping in cars is because their kind landlord/bank/employer only wanted market value for their investment/assets. This is normal!

Perhaps we could add some more hours to the day, so people can get up even earlier in the morning to work hard, really hard. Unlike others!"
That's the spirit!

Choose to work 3 jobs on zero hour contracts.
Choose the minimum wage.
Choose to pay for someone else's mortgage.
Choose "life".

Keep preaching brother. You have me converted now too!

oceanofnoise (Meath) - Posts: 52 - 26/03/2024 14:07:09    2533880

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Barney dissappears and a mysterious new poster emerges with strong views. What are the chances?

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8209 - 26/03/2024 14:32:40    2533889

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Why are banks allowed to sell a mortgage to a buyer who has shown beyond doubt they can repay the mortgage but hold them to the last penny of their deposit? But when they eventually get their increased deposit amount together, because their target house has increased in value in the interim, the bank will 'give' them back 2% or more. A slightly smaller deposit and smaller 'give' back amount could get them a cheaper house and mortgage. But Irish banks are there for themselves now, not for customers.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7709 - 26/03/2024 14:32:52    2533890

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Not for a second saying nothing should be done. But the solutions you put forward aren't practically workable."
My opinion is that they are eminently workable if the appetite is there to make them work.
Your don't agree, because you think if landlordism was made a far less attractive proposition, that it would somehow attract more people.

That logic doesn't seem to make much practical sense either?

oceanofnoise (Meath) - Posts: 52 - 26/03/2024 17:13:11    2533943

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Barney dissappears and a mysterious new poster emerges with strong views. What are the chances?"
If you're referring to myself as a mysterious new poster, what would you like to know so I can clear up some of this air of mystique?

oceanofnoise (Meath) - Posts: 52 - 26/03/2024 17:14:02    2533944

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Why are banks allowed to sell a mortgage to a buyer who has shown beyond doubt they can repay the mortgage but hold them to the last penny of their deposit? But when they eventually get their increased deposit amount together, because their target house has increased in value in the interim, the bank will 'give' them back 2% or more. A slightly smaller deposit and smaller 'give' back amount could get them a cheaper house and mortgage. But Irish banks are there for themselves now, not for customers."
The banks are not the problem. The banks are not determining the ludicrous asking prices for property.
Banks have always had one thing at their core: using money to make more money. Money is their mantra, not customer satisfaction or loyalty.

That hasn't changed in thousands of years, so why would it change now?

oceanofnoise (Meath) - Posts: 52 - 26/03/2024 17:17:16    2533945

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Replying To oceanofnoise:  "The banks are not the problem. The banks are not determining the ludicrous asking prices for property.
Banks have always had one thing at their core: using money to make more money. Money is their mantra, not customer satisfaction or loyalty.

That hasn't changed in thousands of years, so why would it change now?"
Where's the incentive given by banks to encourage people to buy a used house over a new house and less profits for the banks? If they check customers credentials and freed up more cash that will impact the prices for property. They caused the crash and now, because of the super vigilant 'rules' they continue to manipulate the market and the 'customers'. Rules that are bent every day. There are houses available, not such a shortage. But a shortage of new houses that government encourage people to buy to keep Brussels happy and increase bank profits.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7709 - 26/03/2024 17:53:25    2533955

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Barney dissappears and a mysterious new poster emerges with strong views. What are the chances?"
You could take a leaf out of his book and disappear too!

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3071 - 26/03/2024 18:04:19    2533957

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Barney dissappears and a mysterious new poster emerges with strong views. What are the chances?"
They've very different politics from the posts I've read.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14306 - 26/03/2024 18:09:03    2533960

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I'm sure you worked hard for it and made sacrifices, like everyone who owns a home but you're still missing my point.

This is the first generation in the history of capitalism that are better educated, harder working, yet financially worse of than their parents.

The world we're in now is nothing like the world of 2012. We had massive unemployment and excess supply then. Yes you made good choices, but you're the exception not the rule.

There are thousands of couples with masters working White collar Jobs now that will never own a home. Landlords are part of this problem.

Take the very common example of an inheritance property or a pension property. They own them. Their costs are not increasing, yet they've tripled the rent in the last decade. That is absolutely deplorable gouging at the expense of decent hard working families.

Just to note I have no stake in this. I'm fortunate enough to be a home owner. I made good choices and some sacrifices too, but I recognize that I'm unbelievably lucky, and many of my peers haven't had that luck."
Without doubt landlords are part of the problem. I know a landlady who is getting 80grand a year from 5 flats on south circular road. By no means the most luxurious. It's a licence to print money atm.

Overthebar53 (Carlow) - Posts: 295 - 26/03/2024 18:39:35    2533965

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Replying To Viking66:  "They've very different politics from the posts I've read."
Massive coincidence then. Also Meath man using the term 'brother'? I lived on the Northside of Dublin for a good few years and that was a term synonymous with the Dubs. But if i am wrong fair enough.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8209 - 26/03/2024 18:53:04    2533968

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Where's the incentive given by banks to encourage people to buy a used house over a new house and less profits for the banks? If they check customers credentials and freed up more cash that will impact the prices for property. They caused the crash and now, because of the super vigilant 'rules' they continue to manipulate the market and the 'customers'. Rules that are bent every day. There are houses available, not such a shortage. But a shortage of new houses that government encourage people to buy to keep Brussels happy and increase bank profits."
Why should the banks give incentives to buy secondhand properties? Their business is money making, not selling houses. So what, other than some form of payback for their previous monumental sins during in the Celtic Tiger Era, would incentivise them to get involved in a scheme like this?

The more cash flowing around, the better it is for the banks. So think about it; if they wanted to make more money off all our backs, do you not think they would have done what you propose a long time ago?

If there isn't a shortage of houses in your world, then maybe we are inhabiting parallel realities. And as regards our politicians being intelligent enough to execute the grand property price heist you mention; jeeez man! They don't have the capacity!

oceanofnoise (Meath) - Posts: 52 - 26/03/2024 19:48:20    2533983

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Massive coincidence then. Also Meath man using the term 'brother'? I lived on the Northside of Dublin for a good few years and that was a term synonymous with the Dubs. But if i am wrong fair enough."
Mr TheFlaker sir:
It appears that you're quite concerned that I may be masquerading as someone I'm not.

Furthermore, it seems like you may be sailing very close to the wind in insinuating the worst possible thing to level at a Meathman; that I am of Dublin stock. I have only respect for the Dubs, but as they are our mortal rivals on the field of battle, I do not take kindly to my Meathness being called into question in such a way. We haven't been their equal, nor master, for quite some time, which makes this allegation even worse.

I hope we can get past this little speed bump, and continue to have a respectful verbal joust or two along the way, without resorting to throwing barbs about the counties of our birth.

Le meas,
oceanofnoise

oceanofnoise (Meath) - Posts: 52 - 26/03/2024 19:59:06    2533984

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Replying To TheFlaker:  "Massive coincidence then. Also Meath man using the term 'brother'? I lived on the Northside of Dublin for a good few years and that was a term synonymous with the Dubs. But if i am wrong fair enough."
I don't think Barney is that kind of Dub.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14306 - 26/03/2024 20:13:01    2533990

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Replying To Overthebar53:  "Without doubt landlords are part of the problem. I know a landlady who is getting 80grand a year from 5 flats on south circular road. By no means the most luxurious. It's a licence to print money atm."
Like the way you put that last sentence;-)

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14306 - 26/03/2024 20:13:51    2533991

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Replying To oceanofnoise:  "Why should the banks give incentives to buy secondhand properties? Their business is money making, not selling houses. So what, other than some form of payback for their previous monumental sins during in the Celtic Tiger Era, would incentivise them to get involved in a scheme like this?

The more cash flowing around, the better it is for the banks. So think about it; if they wanted to make more money off all our backs, do you not think they would have done what you propose a long time ago?

If there isn't a shortage of houses in your world, then maybe we are inhabiting parallel realities. And as regards our politicians being intelligent enough to execute the grand property price heist you mention; jeeez man! They don't have the capacity!"
They'll make more money giving bigger mortgages for new homes than sorting out smaller mortgages for second hand homes.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7709 - 26/03/2024 21:27:56    2534005

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Replying To Overthebar53:  "Without doubt landlords are part of the problem. I know a landlady who is getting 80grand a year from 5 flats on south circular road. By no means the most luxurious. It's a licence to print money atm."
The bigger landlords and vulture funds are a problem. Has anyone eve seen a council estate being built? The ones I know were all built before I was born in the 80s.

We have 1.5 million more people and counting than we did back in 1996 with more on the way. Our highly educated young people are heading the other way out the back door in their droves.

Meanwhile they are fiddling about with the constitution (referendum failed) and now hate law speech's…it's all waffle and avoiding the real issues for the vast majority of people.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11436 - 26/03/2024 23:17:00    2534024

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Replying To yew_tree:  "The bigger landlords and vulture funds are a problem. Has anyone eve seen a council estate being built? The ones I know were all built before I was born in the 80s.

We have 1.5 million more people and counting than we did back in 1996 with more on the way. Our highly educated young people are heading the other way out the back door in their droves.

Meanwhile they are fiddling about with the constitution (referendum failed) and now hate law speech's…it's all waffle and avoiding the real issues for the vast majority of people."
Well said

oceanofnoise (Meath) - Posts: 52 - 27/03/2024 09:38:45    2534054

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "They'll make more money giving bigger mortgages for new homes than sorting out smaller mortgages for second hand homes."
There aren't enough second hand homes for sale, for a variety of reasons.
Therefore I would say it's quite understandable if banks are concentrating mainly on selling mortgages for new homes. I say "if", because I

It pains me no end to have to defend banks in all of this. After all, their recklessness contributed massively to the mess we found ourselves in 15+ years ago. A mess we're still not finished with.

Have a look at Bank Of Ireland's recent annual reports, freely available online. Yes, the bank is making money, but made a LOSS of 108 million on residential mortgages in 2023. The report caveats this by saying the higher than usual loss was due to the acquisition of KBC Bank's lending portfolio. However the 2022 & 2021 reports also show losses for mortgage lending activities.

Now, do those figures lend themselves to the argument that banks are making a ball of money from mortgage lending?*

*I'm not a finance guy, so maybe I'm reading the figures all wrong. I referred to page 54 of the 2023 report for mortgage lending figures, and page 52 of the 2022 report.

oceanofnoise (Meath) - Posts: 52 - 27/03/2024 10:25:35    2534062

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Replying To oceanofnoise:  "There aren't enough second hand homes for sale, for a variety of reasons.
Therefore I would say it's quite understandable if banks are concentrating mainly on selling mortgages for new homes. I say "if", because I

It pains me no end to have to defend banks in all of this. After all, their recklessness contributed massively to the mess we found ourselves in 15+ years ago. A mess we're still not finished with.

Have a look at Bank Of Ireland's recent annual reports, freely available online. Yes, the bank is making money, but made a LOSS of 108 million on residential mortgages in 2023. The report caveats this by saying the higher than usual loss was due to the acquisition of KBC Bank's lending portfolio. However the 2022 & 2021 reports also show losses for mortgage lending activities.

Now, do those figures lend themselves to the argument that banks are making a ball of money from mortgage lending?*

*I'm not a finance guy, so maybe I'm reading the figures all wrong. I referred to page 54 of the 2023 report for mortgage lending figures, and page 52 of the 2022 report."
I'd suspect they're reported as what's drawn down.

I.e. you lend 275k now but don't get it back until 2059 when the repayments are done, so this would show as an accounting loss for 7 years until they start paying down the principal.

Mortgages are long-term investments for banks. There's no way they're reporting 108m in mortgage arrears.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3288 - 27/03/2024 12:10:28    2534075

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