National Forum

6 Team Munster Hurling Championship?

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It is simple scrap the league that everyone says is meaningless including most of the people on here when it suits their analysis. Start with the provincial championship. Allow the provinces do as they please knockout or round robin. The obvious would losers group second chance. Seed the top team or finalist two from the provinces for two groups of 6 in the All-Ireland McCarthy series. Each team getting five games and a choice of having the top two play the final or have semi finals with the top four. Each team allowed three per season and none of these other competition what ever they are supposed to be.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2230 - 24/06/2022 14:30:39    2427276

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Replying To foreveryoung:  ""football counties" says a Kilkenny man! Jaysus, the gumption of some people. If they aren't hiding, where have Kilkenny footballers been for the last 40-odd years in the Leinster championship? Houdini would be hard pressed to hide as well as them."
Says the yank. We wouldn't have the resources for the kerry group.

F4 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 47 - 24/06/2022 14:44:01    2427277

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Offaly, who are in the minor final, are making big strides to get back to the top table. Offaly, Antrim and Westmeath need to be playing the Top 9 more often. The current format is hindering development. At least 3 counties outside the Top 9 should be catered for."
Agree here. Even Kildare are trying to make massive strides in hurling, yet if they won the McDonagh cup in the next few years and got a few hidings in Leinster that might unravel very quick and they might say "why bother, its a closed shop".

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 327 - 24/06/2022 14:55:23    2427284

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Replying To Canuck:  "It is simple scrap the league that everyone says is meaningless including most of the people on here when it suits their analysis. Start with the provincial championship. Allow the provinces do as they please knockout or round robin. The obvious would losers group second chance. Seed the top team or finalist two from the provinces for two groups of 6 in the All-Ireland McCarthy series. Each team getting five games and a choice of having the top two play the final or have semi finals with the top four. Each team allowed three per season and none of these other competition what ever they are supposed to be."
I agree, although I would scrap the Walsh Cup, start the league on the 1st Feb and have it done by mid March. Maybe 3-4 rounds, with 4 groups of 4 to allow the developing counties a shot at the top teams.
Then, knock-out provincial and then a round robin. Knock out guarantees teams take it seriously. Seed the groups:
1 x provincial champion in each
2 x provinicial semi finalist
3 x the rest. Draw it and maybe end up with a "group of death".

It would guarantee the best 4 teams in the semi finals, and could easily be extended to a 7th team in each group if counties up to the grade.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 327 - 24/06/2022 14:58:53    2427285

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Great to see Offaly doing well.

F4 (Kilkenny) - Posts: 47 - 24/06/2022 15:37:44    2427292

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I agree, although I would scrap the Walsh Cup, start the league on the 1st Feb and have it done by mid March. Maybe 3-4 rounds, with 4 groups of 4 to allow the developing counties a shot at the top teams.
Then, knock-out provincial and then a round robin. Knock out guarantees teams take it seriously. Seed the groups:
1 x provincial champion in each
2 x provinicial semi finalist
3 x the rest. Draw it and maybe end up with a "group of death".

It would guarantee the best 4 teams in the semi finals, and could easily be extended to a 7th team in each group if counties up to the grade."
ExileinWex the difference is I want the useless league. Star the provincials in late March or early April. Two week break to the All Ireland series. Done in time to allow the bread butter club man. Relegation and promotion from the 2nd division (Joe's cup) and 3rd division. By increasing the McCarthy to 12 (or maybe 14) teams at the bottom end has a chance to get points against each other and start to pick off the teams just above them. Or get relegated if not making the effort. Like the Offaly man said stop pulling the ladder up behind you and give these teams a chance. In my opinion this new system is atrocious except making it great viewing for us that are in the top few. I love it but it is selfish. Then, is that not how it always was ? Look after the elites and lip service to the rest.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2230 - 24/06/2022 18:51:40    2427325

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I agree, although I would scrap the Walsh Cup, start the league on the 1st Feb and have it done by mid March. Maybe 3-4 rounds, with 4 groups of 4 to allow the developing counties a shot at the top teams.
Then, knock-out provincial and then a round robin. Knock out guarantees teams take it seriously. Seed the groups:
1 x provincial champion in each
2 x provinicial semi finalist
3 x the rest. Draw it and maybe end up with a "group of death".

It would guarantee the best 4 teams in the semi finals, and could easily be extended to a 7th team in each group if counties up to the grade."
Yep

In both codes this sort of system could work.

Football: provincial championships knockout moving on to 2 tiers of 2 groups of 8. (Provincial champions getting a place in the top 16, 2 to each group, maybe guarantee 4 home games.)

Hurling: Knockout provincials moving on to 3 tiers (2 groups of 6 in the top 2 tiers, groups 5/6 in the bottom)

I actually think league should be developmental in both codes. Played in February and March and in parallel with Provincial and All Ireland club competitions.

The intercounty season would go up to August bank holiday weekend in football, pushed back a few more weeks but no provincial club at the end of the year still means that championships can be played off.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3799 - 25/06/2022 09:20:22    2427347

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Replying To Canuck:  "It is simple scrap the league that everyone says is meaningless including most of the people on here when it suits their analysis. Start with the provincial championship. Allow the provinces do as they please knockout or round robin. The obvious would losers group second chance. Seed the top team or finalist two from the provinces for two groups of 6 in the All-Ireland McCarthy series. Each team getting five games and a choice of having the top two play the final or have semi finals with the top four. Each team allowed three per season and none of these other competition what ever they are supposed to be."
The league is not meaningless. The GAA have just succeeded in making Division 1 meaningless. The leagues are meaningless when the jeopardy of relegation is removed.
If the crowds drop for the league, the GAA will revert back to 1A and 1B on metric system. Cork v Kilkenny had a good crowd in the semi-final, as had Waterford v Cork in the final. When the league is bringing in money, the GAA will not change.
How does the GAA solve a problem like Kerry? That's the conundrum and the standout flaw.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6834 - 25/06/2022 11:39:16    2427366

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Replying To Canuck:  "ExileinWex the difference is I want the useless league. Star the provincials in late March or early April. Two week break to the All Ireland series. Done in time to allow the bread butter club man. Relegation and promotion from the 2nd division (Joe's cup) and 3rd division. By increasing the McCarthy to 12 (or maybe 14) teams at the bottom end has a chance to get points against each other and start to pick off the teams just above them. Or get relegated if not making the effort. Like the Offaly man said stop pulling the ladder up behind you and give these teams a chance. In my opinion this new system is atrocious except making it great viewing for us that are in the top few. I love it but it is selfish. Then, is that not how it always was ? Look after the elites and lip service to the rest."
I had a league above too but it being groups of 4, so right down to county number 16 gets a game or two against the top teams. It will help their development massively.
We are on the same page though Canuck.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 327 - 25/06/2022 12:49:24    2427378

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The league is not meaningless. The GAA have just succeeded in making Division 1 meaningless. The leagues are meaningless when the jeopardy of relegation is removed.
If the crowds drop for the league, the GAA will revert back to 1A and 1B on metric system. Cork v Kilkenny had a good crowd in the semi-final, as had Waterford v Cork in the final. When the league is bringing in money, the GAA will not change.
How does the GAA solve a problem like Kerry? That's the conundrum and the standout flaw."
You solve the problem of Kerry by they playing in their own provincial championship. If they make the top 12 they will be in the McCarthy cup. If not someone else will be. We would complicate the Lord's prayer.
The league is meaningless. From the managers own mouths we want to makes the semis, Nod nod wink wink we don't want to make the final. The majority of the posters on here reminds us that your results in the league means nothing come championship. It is just a charade.
Scraping it and running the provincial championship then the McCarthy cup will give you a meaningful competition if not all meaningful games. As many if not more generating more income than the existing league. You can have round robin , knockout, but in my opinion losers group as the McCarthy will be league basis with semis that are knockout. To keep the interest in provincial championships a seeding basis or home advantage can be used for the winners or finalists. We are already told how much winning it means so much to everyone anyway. The minnows have a legitimate way of playing for the McCarthy not well if you win this you go into a play off that is biased depending on who you are. Or Kerry will be in Leinster championship next year. Or Antrim should be put in Munster. That a bunch of nonsense. Beatings ? That will happen no matter what system and protecting you from yourself will make no difference. You get relegated and someone else get a chance to come cup and get a chance.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2230 - 25/06/2022 14:27:32    2427395

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The minor final on Sunday is heading for a sellout of 27000 capacity Nowlan Park. When the All-Ireland final will sellout Croke Park on its own, the GAA are now able to cater for a 27000 crowd in a standalone minor final. The GAA won't be eager for a change after that!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6834 - 29/06/2022 20:25:00    2428739

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The minor final on Sunday is heading for a sellout of 27000 capacity Nowlan Park. When the All-Ireland final will sellout Croke Park on its own, the GAA are now able to cater for a 27000 crowd in a standalone minor final. The GAA won't be eager for a change after that!"
It's the 2 teams in it that has it that way. I'm sure minor finals won't always get 27000 at 5hem.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5581 - 30/06/2022 10:30:02    2428764

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Replying To Viking66:  "It's the 2 teams in it that has it that way. I'm sure minor finals won't always get 27000 at 5hem."
Without doubt. Still, it does not weaken the argument for standalone All-Ireland finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6834 - 30/06/2022 12:20:35    2428789

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