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Wexford Hurling Championship 2022

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Replying To Viking66:  "I forgot Keane Carroll too. Another good prospect. And Conall Clancy. And obviously Charlie Mcguckin will fill out also. He might be an intercounty midfielder in the long term. He certainly has the battling qualities needed."
Have to say viking you are the most positive poster on thus forum a pleasure to read your posts a d you slways hive me a lift for the future everything.

Tiger1 (Wexford) - Posts: 143 - 27/08/2022 11:55:42    2438803

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Replying To Tiger1:  "Have to say viking you are the most positive poster on thus forum a pleasure to read your posts a d you slways hive me a lift for the future everything."
Thanks Tiger. But as a county we do actually have a good few good hurlers who could potentially make the step up with the right playing experience, coaching and S and C. Other good hurlers in their low to mid 20s include Aodhran Doyle, Goreys Molloys, David Clarke. Think Rowan White is only 27. Its very encouraging how many young Wexford players are playing Fitzgibbon these days also compared to years ago.
Obviously not all these lads will get any better and some might not want to. And a hurling brain, i.e. knowing where to be a split second earlier than your opponent, and where to play the ball and how to play on different players, even what way to stand and move when marking, isn't something that can neccessarily be coached into a lad, but rather is only picked up by experience playing on better opponents and thinking yourself about the wider game. Thats why I'd be a big proponent of a 16 team senior championship. More of our players will get to play against our best players. And yes Pikeman I put it in writing to my club and they are sending in the detailed proposal to the CCC. Whether the clubs can put aside their own vested interests is another thing altogether. And the local press and the fans who are only looking at the club championship on its own merits rather than looking at the bigger picture.
But the futures alot brighter talent wise than it was in the late noughties Tiger. And that's not blind optimism that's the reality as I see it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6072 - 27/08/2022 15:10:42    2438816

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Replying To Tiger1:  "Have to say viking you are the most positive poster on thus forum a pleasure to read your posts a d you slways hive me a lift for the future everything."
Thanks Tiger. But as a county we do actually have a good few good hurlers who could potentially make the step up with the right playing experience, coaching and S and C. Other good hurlers in their low to mid 20s include Aodhran Doyle, Goreys Molloys, David Clarke. Think Rowan White is only 27. Its very encouraging how many young Wexford players are playing Fitzgibbon these days also compared to years ago.
Obviously not all these lads will get any better and some might not want to. And a hurling brain, i.e. knowing where to be a split second earlier than your opponent, and where to play the ball and how to play on different players, even what way to stand and move when marking, isn't something that can neccessarily be coached into a lad, but rather is only picked up by experience playing on better opponents and thinking yourself about the wider game. Thats why I'd be a big proponent of a 16 team senior championship. More of our players will get to play against our best players. And yes Pikeman I put it in writing to my club and they are sending in the detailed proposal to the CCC. Whether the clubs can put aside their own vested interests is another thing altogether. And the local press and the fans who are only looking at the club championship on its own merits rather than looking at the bigger picture.
But the futures alot brighter talent wise than it was in the late noughties Tiger. And that's not blind optimism that's the reality as I see it.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6072 - 27/08/2022 15:11:32    2438817

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How did our underage teams fare over the weekend in the Tournaments lads?

Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 618 - 28/08/2022 11:10:20    2438876

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We won the forristal shield and lost the Walsh final

Wexfordgaa (Wexford) - Posts: 100 - 28/08/2022 13:04:30    2438894

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Replying To Afinestick:  "How did our underage teams fare over the weekend in the Tournaments lads?"
We won the Tony Forristal u14 Shield final in Waterford beating a Cork team 3-11 to 2-9 think another u14 team lost the Sonny Walsh shield final to Kerry, one of our u15 teams won the u15 Arrabawn John Doyle Plate final beating Limerick in Tipperary, and one of our u16 teams lost the u16A all Ireland final to Limerick 5-10 to 1-06 in Ferns. Well done to all the lads concerned in particular it was a good overall performance that the u16s reached the Michael Foley All Ireland U16 Final.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6072 - 28/08/2022 13:59:53    2438899

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Replying To Viking66:  "Thanks Tiger. But as a county we do actually have a good few good hurlers who could potentially make the step up with the right playing experience, coaching and S and C. Other good hurlers in their low to mid 20s include Aodhran Doyle, Goreys Molloys, David Clarke. Think Rowan White is only 27. Its very encouraging how many young Wexford players are playing Fitzgibbon these days also compared to years ago.
Obviously not all these lads will get any better and some might not want to. And a hurling brain, i.e. knowing where to be a split second earlier than your opponent, and where to play the ball and how to play on different players, even what way to stand and move when marking, isn't something that can neccessarily be coached into a lad, but rather is only picked up by experience playing on better opponents and thinking yourself about the wider game. Thats why I'd be a big proponent of a 16 team senior championship. More of our players will get to play against our best players. And yes Pikeman I put it in writing to my club and they are sending in the detailed proposal to the CCC. Whether the clubs can put aside their own vested interests is another thing altogether. And the local press and the fans who are only looking at the club championship on its own merits rather than looking at the bigger picture.
But the futures alot brighter talent wise than it was in the late noughties Tiger. And that's not blind optimism that's the reality as I see it."
I see lots of talk about a 16-team structure in the football thread as well, but wanted to answer this one here, since it relates purely to hurling.

Fair play to you Viking for at least putting it forward the proper way, so that it can at least be properly considered when these decisions are made.

If anything though, I've have thought that the experience of Oulart-The Ballagh in intermediate this year should blow out of the water any suggestion that senior hurling should go up to 16 teams.

Let's take it that OTB were senior in all but name this year. Apart from Buffers Alley in the group match, no intermediate team they faced were able to live with them once they got going. Those same intermediate teams would probably have the same experience against most other mid- or top-ranked senior sides.

I genuinely don't think that playing in a championship where your realistic aims would be just not to lose by too much and hopefully avoid relegation at the end of it would be preferable to playing in a lower-grade championship where you have a genuine chance of success against teams of a broadly equal standard to your own, and where your individual players would have a great chance to shine.

Realise I won't change your mind, but hey, we're allowed have different opinions!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 29/08/2022 13:49:52    2439029

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I see lots of talk about a 16-team structure in the football thread as well, but wanted to answer this one here, since it relates purely to hurling.

Fair play to you Viking for at least putting it forward the proper way, so that it can at least be properly considered when these decisions are made.

If anything though, I've have thought that the experience of Oulart-The Ballagh in intermediate this year should blow out of the water any suggestion that senior hurling should go up to 16 teams.

Let's take it that OTB were senior in all but name this year. Apart from Buffers Alley in the group match, no intermediate team they faced were able to live with them once they got going. Those same intermediate teams would probably have the same experience against most other mid- or top-ranked senior sides.

I genuinely don't think that playing in a championship where your realistic aims would be just not to lose by too much and hopefully avoid relegation at the end of it would be preferable to playing in a lower-grade championship where you have a genuine chance of success against teams of a broadly equal standard to your own, and where your individual players would have a great chance to shine.

Realise I won't change your mind, but hey, we're allowed have different opinions!"
The aim of the 16 team championship would be to get more players overall up to intercounty standard. No more or less than that. It won't make any of the championships more competitive but it shouldn't make any of them massively less so either. In fact there might be more close games as the bottom few Senior clubs might be closer in standard to the top few Intermediate teams who would be making up the extra 4 places. The relegation semis and final should be at least as competitive and meaningful as the QFs if not more so.
I agree OTB were very good this year. I saw them 4 times this year. But then the team they lost to in the relegation final last year made the Senior final this year and only lost it by a point. I wouldn't have OTB in the bottom half of the Senior teams tbh.
Cloughbawn likely will be good next year. Fethard were disappointing but will probably be better next year especially as Mikie Dwyer effectively missed the club championship . I imagine Taghmon, Askamore, Bunclody and Buffers Alley should be better next year also. Gusserane were ravaged by injuries this year. Bunclody beat Oylegate last year and they held their own at Senior this year winning 2 games. Horeswood might be a surprise package next year also.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6072 - 29/08/2022 14:51:31    2439040

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I see lots of talk about a 16-team structure in the football thread as well, but wanted to answer this one here, since it relates purely to hurling.

Fair play to you Viking for at least putting it forward the proper way, so that it can at least be properly considered when these decisions are made.

If anything though, I've have thought that the experience of Oulart-The Ballagh in intermediate this year should blow out of the water any suggestion that senior hurling should go up to 16 teams.

Let's take it that OTB were senior in all but name this year. Apart from Buffers Alley in the group match, no intermediate team they faced were able to live with them once they got going. Those same intermediate teams would probably have the same experience against most other mid- or top-ranked senior sides.

I genuinely don't think that playing in a championship where your realistic aims would be just not to lose by too much and hopefully avoid relegation at the end of it would be preferable to playing in a lower-grade championship where you have a genuine chance of success against teams of a broadly equal standard to your own, and where your individual players would have a great chance to shine.

Realise I won't change your mind, but hey, we're allowed have different opinions!"
I think this is right to be honest.
Oulart were relegated based on a quirk of the system, it was extrordinary times last season.
Whichever of them and the Martins lost were always going to make mince meat of anybody in intermediate. And so it transpired.
You could argue that increasing it to 16 exposes players to a lesser standard of hurling. Because if you only have 3 group games, you are hurling at least 1 match against a team who, lets call a spade a spade have absolutely no chance of winning it.
I remember Tommy Walsh saying Tullaroan being relegated helped the club, because they were not up to senior and the club re grouped in Intermediate.
I get the potential argument for 14 teams, 2 x groups of 7. But any more than that is too many.

Related-ish, should the poorest ranked senior team be relegated, rather than a play off? Is it fair on Cloughban that having won 2 x group matches that they were relegated despite Rathnure having won no matches? Should it only be a playoff if the 2 teams on equal points?

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 440 - 29/08/2022 15:20:34    2439050

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I think this is right to be honest.
Oulart were relegated based on a quirk of the system, it was extrordinary times last season.
Whichever of them and the Martins lost were always going to make mince meat of anybody in intermediate. And so it transpired.
You could argue that increasing it to 16 exposes players to a lesser standard of hurling. Because if you only have 3 group games, you are hurling at least 1 match against a team who, lets call a spade a spade have absolutely no chance of winning it.
I remember Tommy Walsh saying Tullaroan being relegated helped the club, because they were not up to senior and the club re grouped in Intermediate.
I get the potential argument for 14 teams, 2 x groups of 7. But any more than that is too many.

Related-ish, should the poorest ranked senior team be relegated, rather than a play off? Is it fair on Cloughban that having won 2 x group matches that they were relegated despite Rathnure having won no matches? Should it only be a playoff if the 2 teams on equal points?"
Would be fairer if both teams played the same teams. But they didn't. The relegation final was as meaningful and competitive as it gets. If spectators want more meaningful competitive games then you could have the 5th placed teams at home in a relegation semifinal against the 6th placed teams? And if a team loses 2 "knockout" games they deserve to go down regardless how they do in less meaningful group games.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6072 - 29/08/2022 15:42:49    2439054

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I understand the point of view that maybe it was "unfair" on Cloughbawn to have to play a relegation play-off since they finished with four points and Rathnure had none, but I think it's clear to see that the group Rathnure were in was far stronger than the other one.

Quick recap on this year:
Group A: St. Anne's, Naomh Éanna, Glynn-Barntown, Faythe Harriers, Crossabeg-Ballymurn, Cloughbawn
Group B: Rapps, Ferns, Shels, St. Martin's, Oylegate-Glenbrien, Rathnure

Group B produced three semi-finalists, both finalists, and therefore obviously the champions as well.

Looking back on the League, where teams in one group play against the teams in the other: of the 36 games played, Group A teams won a total of only 10, while Group B teams won 23. There were three draws.

Overall, of 42 games played between Group A and Group B teams this year:
Group A: 11 victories
Group B: 27 victories (including Rathnure v Cloughbawn in relegation play-off)
Draws: 4 (including St. Martin's v St. Anne's in quarter-finals, since it was level after 60 minutes)

Obviously there are other factors at play in the League such as player availability etc., but I think the overall pattern speaks for itself.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 29/08/2022 16:07:02    2439059

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Replying To Viking66:  "Would be fairer if both teams played the same teams. But they didn't. The relegation final was as meaningful and competitive as it gets. If spectators want more meaningful competitive games then you could have the 5th placed teams at home in a relegation semifinal against the 6th placed teams? And if a team loses 2 "knockout" games they deserve to go down regardless how they do in less meaningful group games."
Fully agree. Rathnure were in the stronger group. Relegation shouldn't be decided on that basis.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 459 - 29/08/2022 16:07:05    2439060

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Replying To Viking66:  "The aim of the 16 team championship would be to get more players overall up to intercounty standard. No more or less than that. It won't make any of the championships more competitive but it shouldn't make any of them massively less so either. In fact there might be more close games as the bottom few Senior clubs might be closer in standard to the top few Intermediate teams who would be making up the extra 4 places. The relegation semis and final should be at least as competitive and meaningful as the QFs if not more so.
I agree OTB were very good this year. I saw them 4 times this year. But then the team they lost to in the relegation final last year made the Senior final this year and only lost it by a point. I wouldn't have OTB in the bottom half of the Senior teams tbh.
Cloughbawn likely will be good next year. Fethard were disappointing but will probably be better next year especially as Mikie Dwyer effectively missed the club championship . I imagine Taghmon, Askamore, Bunclody and Buffers Alley should be better next year also. Gusserane were ravaged by injuries this year. Bunclody beat Oylegate last year and they held their own at Senior this year winning 2 games. Horeswood might be a surprise package next year also."
We have had the most competitive Club Championship over the last number of years with 12 teams in each grade and people now want to change it to 14 / 16 team championship??? .. Whatever for!! .. At the moment there is no team in Senior hurling that you would easily say will win or be beaten on the day .. This was not the case with 16 teams .. Lets call a spade a spade - Taghmon, Askamore, Bunclody Buffers Alley are currently not good enough for Senior hurling

I think for the next two years it's much more important to get our scheduling in place .. 2 Groups of 6 is great and has been the most favorable option .. but for player burnout / injuries / dual players it seems to be too much .. There were apparently talks at last County Board Meeting to only enter a team in Leinster Club Championship every second year so there isn't as much pressure on our domestic championship

MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 92 - 30/08/2022 15:14:13    2439172

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Replying To MyOhMi:  "We have had the most competitive Club Championship over the last number of years with 12 teams in each grade and people now want to change it to 14 / 16 team championship??? .. Whatever for!! .. At the moment there is no team in Senior hurling that you would easily say will win or be beaten on the day .. This was not the case with 16 teams .. Lets call a spade a spade - Taghmon, Askamore, Bunclody Buffers Alley are currently not good enough for Senior hurling

I think for the next two years it's much more important to get our scheduling in place .. 2 Groups of 6 is great and has been the most favorable option .. but for player burnout / injuries / dual players it seems to be too much .. There were apparently talks at last County Board Meeting to only enter a team in Leinster Club Championship every second year so there isn't as much pressure on our domestic championship"
You have hit on something there.
The Leinster Club championships, while great when the final comes around, are the best competition played at the worst time of year.
A fair question though, where is the benefit in the competition if it means such fixture congestion to get a team in to it.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 440 - 30/08/2022 16:02:45    2439179

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Replying To MyOhMi:  "We have had the most competitive Club Championship over the last number of years with 12 teams in each grade and people now want to change it to 14 / 16 team championship??? .. Whatever for!! .. At the moment there is no team in Senior hurling that you would easily say will win or be beaten on the day .. This was not the case with 16 teams .. Lets call a spade a spade - Taghmon, Askamore, Bunclody Buffers Alley are currently not good enough for Senior hurling

I think for the next two years it's much more important to get our scheduling in place .. 2 Groups of 6 is great and has been the most favorable option .. but for player burnout / injuries / dual players it seems to be too much .. There were apparently talks at last County Board Meeting to only enter a team in Leinster Club Championship every second year so there isn't as much pressure on our domestic championship"
The change to 16 teams isn't about making our club championships more or less competitive. Its about making our Intercounty teams more competitive in the long run.
And not entering a team in the Leinster Championship every second year is very unfair on whoever wins our club championships in those years. What a strange idea for anyone on the Board to come up with.
I watched Matt O Hanlons interview after St James beat Barntown in their opening football game. He was firmly of the belief players prefer more games and less training and he is one of the best dual players in the county.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6072 - 30/08/2022 16:19:18    2439182

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Replying To Viking66:  "The change to 16 teams isn't about making our club championships more or less competitive. Its about making our Intercounty teams more competitive in the long run.
And not entering a team in the Leinster Championship every second year is very unfair on whoever wins our club championships in those years. What a strange idea for anyone on the Board to come up with.
I watched Matt O Hanlons interview after St James beat Barntown in their opening football game. He was firmly of the belief players prefer more games and less training and he is one of the best dual players in the county."
I get what you are trying to say however you are only benefiting a very small number of players by doing it and the downside is that standards drop for the other 12 and therefore the county team suffers overall. If there are players that are good enough in the lower grades then its up to the county management to make sure they are pulled into the setup like what happens in underage.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1502 - 30/08/2022 18:27:27    2439192

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Replying To Viking66:  "The change to 16 teams isn't about making our club championships more or less competitive. Its about making our Intercounty teams more competitive in the long run.
And not entering a team in the Leinster Championship every second year is very unfair on whoever wins our club championships in those years. What a strange idea for anyone on the Board to come up with.
I watched Matt O Hanlons interview after St James beat Barntown in their opening football game. He was firmly of the belief players prefer more games and less training and he is one of the best dual players in the county."
16 teams which you want, conflicts directly with wanting more games for players. Under a 4 groups of 4 system dual players play 4 fewer championship games per season.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 459 - 30/08/2022 18:45:00    2439194

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Replying To Viking66:  "The change to 16 teams isn't about making our club championships more or less competitive. Its about making our Intercounty teams more competitive in the long run.
And not entering a team in the Leinster Championship every second year is very unfair on whoever wins our club championships in those years. What a strange idea for anyone on the Board to come up with.
I watched Matt O Hanlons interview after St James beat Barntown in their opening football game. He was firmly of the belief players prefer more games and less training and he is one of the best dual players in the county."
But wouldn't 4 x 4 groups reduce the number of games, and while players might prefer more games it isn't possible as long as the inter county game takes up 7 months of the calendar?
I could be reading you wrong Viking as I didn't see interview.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 440 - 31/08/2022 10:28:32    2439224

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Replying To Onfor15:  "16 teams which you want, conflicts directly with wanting more games for players. Under a 4 groups of 4 system dual players play 4 fewer championship games per season."
Surely a couple of breaks in the week on week grind would be beneficial to the players? Every team would be guaranteed 5 football and hurling championship games with the relegation semis and preliminary QFs, except the group winners who would be straight into the QFs, and the winners of the relegation semis, all of whom would have at least 4 games guaranteed and more if the group winners win their QFs. And there would be more meaningful knockout games replacing some largely meaningless group games.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6072 - 31/08/2022 10:30:36    2439225

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Replying To Viking66:  "The change to 16 teams isn't about making our club championships more or less competitive. Its about making our Intercounty teams more competitive in the long run.
And not entering a team in the Leinster Championship every second year is very unfair on whoever wins our club championships in those years. What a strange idea for anyone on the Board to come up with.
I watched Matt O Hanlons interview after St James beat Barntown in their opening football game. He was firmly of the belief players prefer more games and less training and he is one of the best dual players in the county."
On the thing about not entering teams in the Leinster Club Championships -

My understanding is it was a simple statement of fact that if:
- starting dates for the provincial championships aren't pushed back to later in the year,
- and we want to accommodate calls to continue with two groups of six but have extra weeks off in between matches,

then the only way we could manage that is take the nuclear option of accepting that we wouldn't be able to finish our county championships in time to have somebody represent Wexford in Leinster.

I don't believe it was put forward as a suggestion or recommendation.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 31/08/2022 10:32:33    2439226

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