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Wexford Hurling Championship 2022

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Replying To zinny:  "The same argument could be made this year for Cloughbawn, they beat two teams above them and yet they are in a regulation against a team that didn't win anything, its a one off game, which perhaps it shouldn't be? or should it be all 4 bottom teams in the playoff"
Think there's merit to that idea Zinny. Would give the teams finishing 5th the same number of minimum games as everyone else too.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6072 - 25/07/2022 15:24:25    2434312

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Replying To Viking66:  "Think there's merit to that idea Zinny. Would give the teams finishing 5th the same number of minimum games as everyone else too."
Cloughbawn are unlucky to finish bottom with four points all right, when you consider that four points is often enough to put you through to a quarter final.

But the idea of fifth & sixth places playing off in relegation semi-finals before a final is something that clubs have consistently voted against. In essence, it would be voting in favour of doubling your chances of being in relegation play-offs, where anything can happen. Bit like turkeys voting for Christmas.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 25/07/2022 16:18:18    2434347

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Replying To Onfor15:  "Here's a riddle for you. Rathnure were never intermediate but won intermediate in 1981."
I will add to this riddle - At the Rathnure Club AGM of 1982 (held in January due to snow!), Rathnure were actually given the opportunity to enter two teams in the 1982 Senior Hurling championship.

There was a proposal at the AGM to enter two teams but it was defeated and therefore decided to remain with 1 Senior and 1 Intermediate team.

There was added complexity in that they won Junior A in 1981 so also agreed not to promote that team to Intermediate grade in 1982

MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 92 - 25/07/2022 17:11:24    2434375

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Replying To hurlorhurley:  "One might argue they let their own clubman down last year by not playing for him?"
Oulart had the same guys missing the previous year and they were beaten by a point in the semi final.

This year the only extra they have back is Rory Jacob

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 459 - 25/07/2022 17:30:35    2434383

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Replying To MyOhMi:  "I will add to this riddle - At the Rathnure Club AGM of 1982 (held in January due to snow!), Rathnure were actually given the opportunity to enter two teams in the 1982 Senior Hurling championship.

There was a proposal at the AGM to enter two teams but it was defeated and therefore decided to remain with 1 Senior and 1 Intermediate team.

There was added complexity in that they won Junior A in 1981 so also agreed not to promote that team to Intermediate grade in 1982"
Didn't know that. I thought it was a rule of the competition that a club couldn't have two teams in the same grade. It still doesn't happen anywhere apart from the odd club sometimes having two teams in Junior 'B' (e.g. Naomh Éanna this year).

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 25/07/2022 17:31:57    2434385

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Replying To Viking66:  "Think there's merit to that idea Zinny. Would give the teams finishing 5th the same number of minimum games as everyone else too."
The main problem is that under the current system there is usually something to play for going into round 5 for most teams. If 5th place wasn't safe then there would be fewer 6th place teams with something to play for going into round 5.

The current situation is best.

Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 459 - 25/07/2022 17:32:29    2434387

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Replying To Onfor15:  "The main problem is that under the current system there is usually something to play for going into round 5 for most teams. If 5th place wasn't safe then there would be fewer 6th place teams with something to play for going into round 5.

The current situation is best."
Rathnure had nothing to play for whereas in the other group six did, that's just how it will happen sometimes. The question I raised is on fairness, who wins the championship will be worthy winners as they still have to play three games to win against teams, that if that have already played have also beaten teams from another group. Who gets relegated plays one further game. Are they the worst team it's debatable. If they lost two more games then I don't think they could have any argument. Even playing home and away forbthe relegation would be better.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1502 - 26/07/2022 12:13:27    2434517

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Replying To zinny:  "Rathnure had nothing to play for whereas in the other group six did, that's just how it will happen sometimes. The question I raised is on fairness, who wins the championship will be worthy winners as they still have to play three games to win against teams, that if that have already played have also beaten teams from another group. Who gets relegated plays one further game. Are they the worst team it's debatable. If they lost two more games then I don't think they could have any argument. Even playing home and away forbthe relegation would be better."
Any team who ends up in the relegation final has five group matches where they need to get one or two wins to stay out of the relegation mix. If they end up in the relegation final they have one more chance to survive.
Rathnure to be fair look to have got stung badly with injury but they were probably going to be in the relegation discussion of 4 or 5 at the start of the competition and despite being competitive and unlucky in a lot of their games they've finished six for a reason.
Cloughbawn were arguably in an easier group (Which I admit could be thrown into question after this weekends results) and have tasted success in games in this competition.
Cloughbawn have done their stint in intermediate recently and while it may seem like a disaster for Rathnure, possibly they need to go backwards before they go forwards.
I expect it to be a very close game and I expect there to be a very big crowd at the game at it. I think Cloughbawn are the better team, but I think Rathnure will win it.

hurlorhurley (Wexford) - Posts: 1534 - 26/07/2022 14:14:02    2434574

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Replying To zinny:  "Rathnure had nothing to play for whereas in the other group six did, that's just how it will happen sometimes. The question I raised is on fairness, who wins the championship will be worthy winners as they still have to play three games to win against teams, that if that have already played have also beaten teams from another group. Who gets relegated plays one further game. Are they the worst team it's debatable. If they lost two more games then I don't think they could have any argument. Even playing home and away forbthe relegation would be better."
Thing is, you could finish in fifth place in your group with as many as six points, after winning three matches. Unlikely, but remember it could have happened in one of the senior groups (if Oylegate had beaten Rapps, and St. Martin's had beaten Ferns).

You'd already be unlucky not to be in quarter-final, and you could then be unlucky in a relegation semi-final and final if you picked up a few injuries, had a few debatable decisions go against you, or just get the wrong bounce of the ball.

Meanwhile, somebody who lost all five group matches might get lucky in a relegation semi-final, and therefore be safe for another year. So, a team that would have won three out of seven would be going down, and a team that won just one out of six would be staying up.

Anyway, it's back to the turkeys and Christmas thing. Unlikely that any club would vote for the return of relegation semi-finals, since it would double their chances of being in relegation play-offs, where nobody wants to be.

Somewhat similar to a proposal from CCC this year that just three teams would go through from each group - top team straight to semi-finals, and second and third place in quarter-finals. Idea was to give more of an incentive to finish top. But it got little or no support, because clubs weren't going to vote for something that would reduce their chances of making the knockout stages, if just three teams went through instead of four.

You could implement a lot of changes that some people might think are improvements all right if you took the voting power away from the clubs and let the CCC decide all competition structures and rules, but then there'd be uproar altogether!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 26/07/2022 15:44:26    2434628

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I feel sorry for Rathnure as they are in many ways victims of the system.

They have been blighted by some serious injuries but also some not so serious injuries. Under this system a 4 week injury means basically the entire championship. If alternating between both codes was in place that suddenly becomes 2 games rather than 4 and gives the likes of Rathnure an opportunity to give a truer account of what theyre capable of.

I can tell ye one thing though, never mind the quarter finals, outside of my own clubs games the other game ill be getting along to this weekend is Cloughbawn V Rathnure cos that will be one hell of a no holds barred battle, i have a feeling the Castleboro men will scrape through but God only knows.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1044 - 26/07/2022 18:28:20    2434679

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Replying To tearintom:  "I feel sorry for Rathnure as they are in many ways victims of the system.

They have been blighted by some serious injuries but also some not so serious injuries. Under this system a 4 week injury means basically the entire championship. If alternating between both codes was in place that suddenly becomes 2 games rather than 4 and gives the likes of Rathnure an opportunity to give a truer account of what theyre capable of.

I can tell ye one thing though, never mind the quarter finals, outside of my own clubs games the other game ill be getting along to this weekend is Cloughbawn V Rathnure cos that will be one hell of a no holds barred battle, i have a feeling the Castleboro men will scrape through but God only knows."
Some pressure on Rathnure boys, senior hurling club since 1940, must be a record for the whole country never mind Wexford. The 100 anniversary of the birth of Nicky Rackard also.


Some history from the Rathnure GAA website.

In 1940, Rathnure won the Junior hurling championship and the club has grown from strength to strength, remaining in the Senior ranks for the last 81 years. Though our first Senior finals resulted in defeats in 1942, 1946 and 1947, we won our first title in 1948 at the expense of St. Aidan' from Enniscorthy.

Further victories came in 1950, 1955, 1961, 1967, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1979, 1980, 1986, 1987, 1990, 1996, 1998, 2002, 2003 and 2006. The black and amber have recorded a record breaking 20 Senior hurling titles in all and currently lead the Roll of Honour in Wexford.

Following six of the above county successes, Leinster victories were also achieved. Other titles over the years included Senior Football, Intermediate Hurling, Junior Hurling, Junior 'A' and 'B' Football, Junior 'A' Hurling (four), Junior 'B' hurling (four) and all premier underage success from U12 to U21 (including six-in-a-row). The club also won an U14 All-Ireland Féile in 1990.

Our club cannot only boast of some great achievements, but also of hurling legends. Some of our most famous sons include Nicky, Billy & Bobby Rackard, the Barrons, Quigley brothers, the O'Connors, generations of the Codd family, the Morrissey brothers, John Conran and Jimmy Holohan to name a few

WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 347 - 26/07/2022 21:52:38    2434724

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Injuries are part and parcel of the game. They are yet another part of what every team needs to win - luck.

There is no perfect system and if you finish bottom after 5 matches then you are where you are. It also meant every match counted because a team could have finished up in relegation.

I often feel like a lot of the talk about local club rivalries are from the past, I have seen little of it since I moved here. No doubt both will want to win but I would hazard a guess that there are best friends hurling against one another. It might have happened up to a good few years ago that teams would go out to kill each another over a hurling match (same in Dublin in the 80's/90's) but young lads are different nowadays and although the red mist can descend in any match most players from neighbouring clubs know one another so well. My lads played teams from all around them in matches every year and they are hard fought but played in good spirit because they all are pals with each other.

That said, both will be out for a win and the best way to do that is to have 15 on the field and fight for every ball like your life depended on it, but know where that line is.

On the basis of 2 wins this year, I expect Cloughban to win.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 440 - 27/07/2022 11:26:33    2434804

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Anyone listen to the hurling podcast?

Finchfurlong996 (Wexford) - Posts: 201 - 27/07/2022 13:18:58    2434853

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Injuries are part and parcel of the game. They are yet another part of what every team needs to win - luck.

There is no perfect system and if you finish bottom after 5 matches then you are where you are. It also meant every match counted because a team could have finished up in relegation.

I often feel like a lot of the talk about local club rivalries are from the past, I have seen little of it since I moved here. No doubt both will want to win but I would hazard a guess that there are best friends hurling against one another. It might have happened up to a good few years ago that teams would go out to kill each another over a hurling match (same in Dublin in the 80's/90's) but young lads are different nowadays and although the red mist can descend in any match most players from neighbouring clubs know one another so well. My lads played teams from all around them in matches every year and they are hard fought but played in good spirit because they all are pals with each other.

That said, both will be out for a win and the best way to do that is to have 15 on the field and fight for every ball like your life depended on it, but know where that line is.

On the basis of 2 wins this year, I expect Cloughban to win."
Being good friends with people from a neighbouring club doesn't mean you won't be going hell for leather to beat them, that any victory over them isn't extra sweet when it arrives, or that losing to them isn't harder to take than other defeats.

All of Cloughbawn and all of Rathnure could be best friends all year round but there'll still be some extra spice to that one since it's a local derby and there's so much at stake.

It doesn't mean that "dirt" is to be expected - but it'll be 100% full-blooded stuff all the same.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 27/07/2022 13:44:57    2434864

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Being good friends with people from a neighbouring club doesn't mean you won't be going hell for leather to beat them, that any victory over them isn't extra sweet when it arrives, or that losing to them isn't harder to take than other defeats.

All of Cloughbawn and all of Rathnure could be best friends all year round but there'll still be some extra spice to that one since it's a local derby and there's so much at stake.

It doesn't mean that "dirt" is to be expected - but it'll be 100% full-blooded stuff all the same."
Just look at brothers hurling in training matches underage never mind friends. They don't want the other lad to get the better of them. Worse than being bested by a stranger!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 6072 - 27/07/2022 14:42:24    2434877

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Replying To Finchfurlong996:  "Anyone listen to the hurling podcast?"
Listened to it a few times but a real pity for me is that they don't dicuss the club game at all. Would be nice to have a weekly discussion on the groups etc and have a different manager in each week to dicuss there team. Think there is a real opening for this.

alwaysasub (Wexford) - Posts: 300 - 27/07/2022 17:53:33    2434942

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Being good friends with people from a neighbouring club doesn't mean you won't be going hell for leather to beat them, that any victory over them isn't extra sweet when it arrives, or that losing to them isn't harder to take than other defeats.

All of Cloughbawn and all of Rathnure could be best friends all year round but there'll still be some extra spice to that one since it's a local derby and there's so much at stake.

It doesn't mean that "dirt" is to be expected - but it'll be 100% full-blooded stuff all the same."
Did I say they wouldn't be going hell for leather?
Have another read.
Both will be desperate to win and yes it will be hell for leather. But I hear people talking about Oulart and Buffers Alley and Rathnure over the years and it sounds like there were murders at those matches.
There was a few in Dublin back in the day too.
I don't think it is the same now days. And the game is better for it.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 440 - 27/07/2022 18:23:12    2434946

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Replying To Viking66:  "Just look at brothers hurling in training matches underage never mind friends. They don't want the other lad to get the better of them. Worse than being bested by a stranger!"
Oylegate v Ballymurn

WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 347 - 27/07/2022 18:48:27    2434954

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Did I say they wouldn't be going hell for leather?
Have another read.
Both will be desperate to win and yes it will be hell for leather. But I hear people talking about Oulart and Buffers Alley and Rathnure over the years and it sounds like there were murders at those matches.
There was a few in Dublin back in the day too.
I don't think it is the same now days. And the game is better for it."
I've read your post again all right, and particularly this line you wrote: I often feel like a lot of the talk about local club rivalries are from the past

I was just making the point that local club rivalries definitely still exist. But you're right that there's probably not as many heavy shots in these matches as there used to be back in the day....and at least we agree too that Cloughbawn v Rathnure will be hell for leather stuff!

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 1200 - 28/07/2022 11:13:59    2435035

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Replying To Finchfurlong996:  "Anyone listen to the hurling podcast?"
Specifically this week's episode about the hurling strategic plan? I am half way through it and it is very encouraging for the most part, although a tad optimistic to target winning an AI in 2027 when we are at least five years behind most of the Munster counties in strength and conditioning alone.

The one thing I will say, and I don't want to denigrate the man, but I think it's about time we moved away from having Liam Griffin on any hurling advisory group. The game has evolved so much in ten years never mind since his time and the "catch, touch and bang" mindset. Heck, even the greatest manager of all-time, Cody, was seen as out of touch with the modern game in recent times. I do think he would be too old-school in his ways, and we need more progressive and younger figureheads leading the group. I would fear for the development of football in the county if Griffin had his way. Would a 13 year old chap even know who Griffin is?

One more thing, and I have always said it, we can have all the ambitious plans in the world, but it won't matter a jot if the coaching structures aren't in place. Prime example for me would be Gearoid Hegarty- I would bet anything that if he was born in Wexford he'd have been seen as too gangly to develop the skill-set he has and would have been full-forward or nowhere. Again, it's imperative we develop young, progressive and articulate coaches or the plan won't be worth the paper it's written on. Work on the less skillful lads as much if not more as the talented chaps.

beano (Wexford) - Posts: 1261 - 28/07/2022 11:51:06    2435044

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