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Central Competitions Control Committee.

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Replying To Viking66:  "They already know this. Its just in the heat of battle they forget. Retrospective punishment won't work as a deterrent because they already know that they could be sent off if spotted by the ref or linesmen. We will forget about umpires for this debate who I feel should do more."
Retrospective punishment would work if there weren't so many loopholes and strokes to be pulled to get people off. The GAA needs to tighten up its act and eliminate the ability of barristers to undo the disciplinary system. As i said before fundamentally the wrong thing has happened here. 3 guys that should legitimately have been suspended for their actions have escaped and it brings the whole organisation into disrepute. The Clare and Galway county boards should be having a serious look at themselves in lodging these appeals. it sends out all the wrong messages. That said we are where we are and it seems the GAA family is great for looking after their own rather than realising that there is a bigger picture so it remains for the powers that be to tighten things up to protect the GAA from itself.

indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 87 - 17/06/2022 14:43:34    2425640

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They have it right now.......just in time for the uncontroversial All-Ireland semi finals and expect it to be torn up for any controversies in the semi finals.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1610 - 22/06/2022 14:49:45    2426862

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I think the GAA have come out since then and said "Oh hey guys, conducting business by email is ok". Was that even a relevant concern in this whole sorry process?

Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 777 - 22/06/2022 16:53:13    2426908

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good article in the times in relation to this.. read also the explainer of why the appeal was successful which is imbedded in the article.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2022/06/23/ciaran-murphy-rory-hayes-substitution-might-be-gaas-most-effective-appeal-deterrent/

indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 87 - 24/06/2022 09:12:33    2427161

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another test for the processes and procedures of the CCCC this week. I hope they get this one right.

indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 87 - 27/06/2022 08:28:44    2427824

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NOTHING TO SEE HERE TODAY

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 195 - 27/06/2022 09:54:17    2427865

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Yesterday's shocking scenes are just a culmination of events happening year on year & the GAA turning a blind eye. They talk the talk but take any incident over the years & you will find it was not dealt with or if it was, the suspensions are overturned or drastically reduced on appeal.
Thousands of children at the game yesterday & thousands more watching on TV with their parents, this is not what you want them to perceive as acceptable in GAA. Sadly the usual hard men describe it as handbags & it's watered down. Yesterday there was eye gouging, punches thrown, boots put in on lads on the ground, alleged spitting incident, full on & only a matter of time before somebody gets fatally injured or hurt. Would it be acceptable if an individual yesterday lost the sight of his eye due to a gouge, affecting his working career outside GAA.
Scenes like this happening regularly are only going to incite violence in the crowd as well & it happened yesterday at the game & outside the stadium, this is not what you want in GAA & unfortunately it happens at club level every week & is swept under the carpet.
The GAA disciplinary process has been a mess for some time with the alphabet soup of appeals bodies & the involvement of Barristers & Solicitors in appeals & Committee's & similar time the Legal & Judicial system of the State, has become a mess. This is best seen by the hurling incidents a few weeks ago where a deliberate stamp & assault on players off the ball from behind, escapes censure because of technicality. County Boards & County Managers appealing serious offences & then selecting the same players afterwards to play shows that there is no respect & anything goes & do what you like & the GAA will take no action. So if the GAA itself & it's Disciplinary bodies & County Boards turn a blind eye, people should not be surprised that scenes like this happen & that they continue to happen every week at club & county level.
Technicality's are often used as a loophole in the GAA & left there & in many cases leaked to the Counties in how to circumnavigate the process, it's well known that approaches to individuals are made behind the scenes. The whole Disciplinary process needs to be revamped & implement match bans not time period bans & bring in life bans for certain actions. Some day someone is going to sue & win big & only then will the GAA take action.
Yesterday's game needs to be a watershed moment for GAA discipline as the reputation of the Association is at risk & sponsors & TV Rights don't want to be associated with this & images of it going around the world.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 1206 - 27/06/2022 11:07:40    2427915

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Replying To indaknownow:  "another test for the processes and procedures of the CCCC this week. I hope they get this one right."
I wouldn't be rushing to the defense of the CCCC. But how do they get this right.? In theory they could ban half both panels, but we know that they wouldnt be upheld. They could take an approach of targeting a couple of the more serious aggressors with heavy bans ( based on video evidence and definitely not the 2 lads who were red carded). They could brandish fines to the county boards... but thats a bit of a cop out and is no real deterrent to future behavior.
I honestly don't know what the "right" thing is.
One thing that should be done going forward is to make a few fundamental changes to procedures/rules
1. Opposing teams to use dressing rooms on opposite sides of pitch ( where possible as in Croke Park)
2. If 1 is not possible stagger the entry and exit of teams from the field.
3. Strict limit on number of subs / panelists / alickadoos involved with each team.
4. If non playing member of a panel/backroom team commits a red card offence , then the team needs to be reduced to 14 , by nominating a player to be withdrawn.
5. Set some very clear guidelines around the serious indiscretions. You will always have some handbags , but we should identify a group of infractions that incur automatic , unappealable 1 year bans.... eye gouging, head butting, off the ball kicking or striking an opponent etc...

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 397 - 27/06/2022 11:53:27    2427932

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Point 4 is an excellent idea, doubtful it would pass Congress but certainly make a non playing panellist think twice.

Claretandblue (Westmeath) - Posts: 615 - 27/06/2022 13:12:10    2427973

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A lot of great ideas being put on posts to sort discipline going out the window completely..I thought it had been brought in about one team remaining on the field at half or full time but maybe im dreaming..the big one for most people is surely the use of dressing rooms at opposite sides of the ground..also get rid of the hangers on and put extended panel members in stands but away from the official subs bench..

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 1711 - 27/06/2022 14:07:37    2428011

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "Point 4 is an excellent idea, doubtful it would pass Congress but certainly make a non playing panellist think twice."
I agree it's an excellent idea, but equally, I also agree it's unlikely that delegates would vote for it. Unfortunately with many of these things at both county and national level, they think about how it might affect their own teams rather than thinking of the greater good.

A compromise solution might be that if a non-playing member of the squad/backroom team gets a red card, then a player has to serve ten (or maybe more) minutes in a sinbin. But again, whether it would get the necessary support would remain to be seen.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 921 - 27/06/2022 14:17:47    2428015

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moc.dna, good post and agree with you. But..............
We've had watershed moments since day dot and none were real watershed moments.
For example, Louth v Laois in 1991 was supposed to be one. Nothing happened.
Wicklow v Laois in 86.
Meath v Mayo in 96 another.
Louth v Meath in 2010.
The length and breadth of the country, there are cover-ups, technicalities, etc which players are getting off suspensions from and clubs and county boards are defending the indefensible but they don't care because all that matters is winning the next match.

There are county boards who throw the book at club players and then talk out of the other half of their mouth when they county players might miss an All-Ireland quarter final.

Every year, there are videos of teams and players pucking the head off one another and no suspensions often happen because the referee booked 10 players or the likes, so the referee is deemed to have dealt with it.

But also, it is not surprising that the Armagh County Board haven't come out and said that they don't condone what happened or anything. Because in GAA, omertha is golden and the whole disciplinary system is just littered with everything from "he's not that type of player" to probably money changing hands for players to get off.

The whole disciplinary system has a level of glasnost and perestroika which Gorbachev would have been proud of.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 195 - 27/06/2022 14:36:34    2428024

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Who is investigating the Croke Park stadium governance.

They require teams to limit those in the dugout. Well behaved counties comply. Others bully extra people inside with out getting any challenge. I respect the volunteer stewards but for safety some real professional stewards who are not to be pushed around are needed. In the case of incursions what arre the arrangements for protecting players and match officials.
Secondly what do the Gardai do in the stadium. When players or referees are in danger from crowd incursion they seem to vanish.
Thirdly why is an organiser employed who thinks sharing a tunnel is ok.
Fourthly why are the GAA investigation an assault by a non player. Surely that is a matter for the guards and the court.

Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 427 - 27/06/2022 14:42:26    2428027

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When the CCCC do apply sanctions they are not even and fair either. In the 2017 semi final a Cork player buried his stick in Conor Gleeson's ribs with two minutes to go and the game over. Gleeson retaliated swiping across the shins. Two players red carded. Gleeson missed the ALL-Ireland final and the Cork player supposedly the next game in the league the following year. Guess what ? The Cork player had not rejoined the panel for the the first league game. Two red cards with uneven consequences to begin with and then no consequences at all. These people are a joke and could not make rules for a games of checkers. Or else corrupt and can be bought.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2104 - 27/06/2022 14:44:28    2428028

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replying to anotheralias but im conscious of all the other posts today.
I agree its hard to know what the right thing is here. But i do know that the wrong thing would be some sort of a farcical cover up. Any fair minded person can agree what happened yesterday was disgraceful.
There are rules within the GAA which cover 'contributing to a melee'. and the GAA needs to be implementing those rules. David Goff tried to apply them in the league game between Armagh and Tyrone - but unfortunately the appeals system in the GAA didn't support him properly.
The argument that a person stuck in the middle of that yesterday was trying to stop it is fine but if the GAA implemented its own rules then everyone would know that - if I'm in the middle of a melee for whatever reason I will get a ban - then that puts the onus on the person to get away from it, Hence no melee.
All it would take is a few instances of stern punishments for all and sundry for the whole country to stand up and change the behaviour - I know that would be particularly harsh on Galway on this occasion as they would be seriously depleted for the next round - but unfortunately some county will have to take the blame. (Maybe it would be some poetic justice for them appealing their hurlers ban a few weeks ago on a technicality).
unless some sort of a stand is taken now this thing will never change.

indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 87 - 27/06/2022 15:11:35    2428040

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There are lists of rules badly thought out and left on the books but abandoned or ignored. Last year the Aidan McCarthy penalty and carding for denying a scoring chance. He was practically on the side line. So all concerned realize this was ridiculous. So for the rest of the year ignored. This year we had Lee Chin professionally followed by the last defender slightly off centre to the goal before he could take a shot. The explanation. 1. He was now towards ( last year's mess) the side line. 2. The rule says he must be pulled down and not just back 3. There were defenders who could have got back to prevent a score. So the referee has to know where an imaginary line is. Make up his mind if the player fell after being pulled back. Calculate if the defenders are near enough and fast enough to get back to prevent a score. Now tell me please is this a rule that any person with the slightest intelligence would try to administrate.
So how could it have been made to punish the professional foul. Cut out the ambiguous wording dropping scoring chance. A penalty will be awarded when the last defender commits any foul inside a lined area semi circle what ever. In fact I think it should be a two point free and penalties confined to the square. However which ever you prefer best. The persons responsible for this should be the ones breast feeding the goal posts. No time for the valentine cards flashed and the double penalization but they will probably come up with a blue next.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2104 - 28/06/2022 14:13:07    2428333

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For me this whole "contributing to a melee" ruling is a load of "bo***x in all honesty.

Ive been in situations where ive gone into rows on a pitch gotten in between 2 players and pushed them aside, technically although trying to separate 2 players im contributing to a melee!! Its nonsensical and obviously a cop out ruling.

We need to get back to the root cause of these issues.

I would say 90% of these types of incidents come from one source, goading of an opposition player. Its not only accepted, its encouraged, "get up into his face" "keep goading him to get a reaction" "you get a score off him then get up in his face after it etc etc. Its a horrible part of the game thats actually overlooked and a huge issue.

What does it lead to, reactions and incidents.

Now why not make it a black card offence. Your seen goading a player, up in his face giving it verbals anywhere on the pitch its a sin bin for 10 mins. Let that take affect for a while and see how much its encouraged.

Secondly we need to simple eradicate routes of appeal but that also means the GAA have to review all incidents from a referee point of view. Too often we see refs make blatant mistakes, the authorities back him, the team appeals and because its a blatant mistake they get off. Too often we also see poor decisions being backed and proper decisions being appealed. The route of appeals needs to be eradicated and also the GAA need to not fear saying the referee got it wrong so the suspension doesnt count.

And lastly for me, its time for either a 2nd referee on the actual pitch, 1 per half or else a video ref, enough is enough, the technology is there. Ive seen arguments about it slowing down the game, honestly can many football games be slowed down anymore?? And in rugby they play away whilst the vide ref reviews incidents and its adressed in the next break in play, its simple and it can be done.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 971 - 28/06/2022 15:07:42    2428371

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Replying To tearintom:  "For me this whole "contributing to a melee" ruling is a load of "bo***x in all honesty.

Ive been in situations where ive gone into rows on a pitch gotten in between 2 players and pushed them aside, technically although trying to separate 2 players im contributing to a melee!! Its nonsensical and obviously a cop out ruling.

We need to get back to the root cause of these issues.

I would say 90% of these types of incidents come from one source, goading of an opposition player. Its not only accepted, its encouraged, "get up into his face" "keep goading him to get a reaction" "you get a score off him then get up in his face after it etc etc. Its a horrible part of the game thats actually overlooked and a huge issue.

What does it lead to, reactions and incidents.

Now why not make it a black card offence. Your seen goading a player, up in his face giving it verbals anywhere on the pitch its a sin bin for 10 mins. Let that take affect for a while and see how much its encouraged.

Secondly we need to simple eradicate routes of appeal but that also means the GAA have to review all incidents from a referee point of view. Too often we see refs make blatant mistakes, the authorities back him, the team appeals and because its a blatant mistake they get off. Too often we also see poor decisions being backed and proper decisions being appealed. The route of appeals needs to be eradicated and also the GAA need to not fear saying the referee got it wrong so the suspension doesnt count.

And lastly for me, its time for either a 2nd referee on the actual pitch, 1 per half or else a video ref, enough is enough, the technology is there. Ive seen arguments about it slowing down the game, honestly can many football games be slowed down anymore?? And in rugby they play away whilst the vide ref reviews incidents and its adressed in the next break in play, its simple and it can be done."
Totally agree with you about legal appeals outside of the structures in place controlling the sport. No problem with an appeal to the sports control body. However every level the appeal fails at the suspension should double. This will stop unscrupulous appeals but allow justifiable ones be dealt with. Why wouldn't you do these loop hole appeals as there is no consequences of doing it and you might win especially if you know the right people.
The NHL gets no outside interference from lawyers and every inter county GAA should have to sign a binding contract to accept the rules of the association. Especially before he is given access to any expenses to play an amateur sport. Of course you have to have proper rules to begin with and that is far from the situation.
No questions but their should be two refs and all red cards showed be reviewed. This would stop many of these appeals. Also a certain other few items should be reviewed. The ref will wait for a player to tie his boots laces. So this slowing things down is more nonsense. Eight minutes in the football game and bo reviews ?

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2104 - 28/06/2022 19:00:47    2428457

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