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We're back and at it again. Will the dynamic be different this time. Armagh should be buoyed by their defeat of the All Ireland Champions, and near neighbours Tyrone? Armagh should also feel that this game against Donegal is a shot at redemption, because let's face it, Armagh did not turn up in Ballybofey.
Donegal will be smarting after their Ulster Final defeat. Will they be able to lift the performance levels for this one? Will the bodies have recovered from extra time, where it appeared that Donegals fitness level was not quite at the level of the Derry players.
Personally, I feel that this will be a completely different game of football for Donegal, very different from Ballybofey, and different to last weeks cagey affair. I feel Armagh will play with a confidence which should allow them to express themselves. Will Donegal play with a structured game to contain this regained confidence, or will they back themselves as footballers to be able to outscore Armagh.
Let's open up the debate...
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 586 - 07/06/2022 10:04:56
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I think a lot depends on our mentality. Are we ready for a confident Armagh who will be bursting to come at us? I think to be honest that we have better players overall, so if we manage the purple patches from Armagh well then I think our quality will see us through. But so much will depend on where our heads are at. If we are not there mentally or just have no more to give this year, Armagh will win and they will win comfortably.
It's the last team I wanted to face in all honesty. It's very hard to beat the same team 3 times in one year. Would have much preferred to face Mayo and test ourselves against them.
I have a feeling there will be a sending off early in this game.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 07/06/2022 10:25:27
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Replying To SouthOfTheGap: "We're back and at it again. Will the dynamic be different this time. Armagh should be buoyed by their defeat of the All Ireland Champions, and near neighbours Tyrone? Armagh should also feel that this game against Donegal is a shot at redemption, because let's face it, Armagh did not turn up in Ballybofey.
Donegal will be smarting after their Ulster Final defeat. Will they be able to lift the performance levels for this one? Will the bodies have recovered from extra time, where it appeared that Donegals fitness level was not quite at the level of the Derry players.
Personally, I feel that this will be a completely different game of football for Donegal, very different from Ballybofey, and different to last weeks cagey affair. I feel Armagh will play with a confidence which should allow them to express themselves. Will Donegal play with a structured game to contain this regained confidence, or will they back themselves as footballers to be able to outscore Armagh.
Let's open up the debate..." I've said it on the other thread already but I honestly & genuinely would be at peace with Donegal bowing out of this year's Championship so long as we release the shackles and try to play a bit of football. I know that in the Derry match it was necessary for us to mirror Derry's tactical approach. But at the same time I felt that we played with the handbrake on far too much.
I think you're right in saying that Armagh will play a more direct and open style of football than Derry did. It might lend itself to a more open game. Hopefully anyway. It will be interesting to see if Armagh have learned anything tactically from the last game. They'd need to. We cleaned them out on kickouts and they couldn't get Rían O'Neill into it much at all.
It's been very quiet in the Donegal camp regarding injuries. The only thing I've heard is that Mogan might be struggling? The Michael Murphy question will not go away. In all likelihood Forker will be at his usual antics. Will we have learned anything from the Drrry match? I wonder is Oisín Gallen any closer to fitness? I would doubt that he'd be thrown straight in but he'd be a huge asset to spring from the bench.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9155 - 07/06/2022 10:27:40
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Firstly, Armagh will have to try something different to Forker on Murphy, that clearly didn't work for them. Forker not up to the job. I suspect that they might try someone more mobile, possibly Jarlath Burns, and try to put Murphy on the back foot. It's at this point then that we need to decide what we're going to do to counter this.
I suspect that Armagh will concede our kick outs again, but I think they will be braver on their own. I'm sure it's something they will have worked on. Raffertys first couple of kick outs against Tyrone were poor, but he got them away okay after that. This is where Donegal will need to exert their dominance from the start, and to really go after their kick out. To go as aggressively after their kickout, does this mean a change in personnel? Do Thompson and Hughie come back in? Who misses out?
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 586 - 07/06/2022 11:42:20
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I think Donegal's mentality will be ok on Sunday as they'll see it as one game from an All Ireland QF. Armagh have to solve the kick out and midfield issues of Ballybofey and be smarter not to get mixed up with Donegal tactics early on which could lead to bookings etc, but I'm sure these are areas they'll look at, and Clones is a bigger pitch.
The referee in the Ulster Final was significant in the sense he caught onto Donegal's tactics of handpassing the ball into the scoring zone and then falling which usually allows them to keep the score board ticking over.
This meant their usual qouta of easy frees never occured and Derry stayed with them. As a result their forward unit struggled so it'll be interesting if they play Murphy at FF. However if the referee isn't strong enough or falls for the easy frees Donegal might be happier sticking to their usual tactics, as they'll be able to win frees within the scoring zone.
Armagh have a lot to change in a few weeks so Donegal are favourites but hopefully it's a better game this time.
sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 07/06/2022 12:56:44
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Replying To sam1884: "I think Donegal's mentality will be ok on Sunday as they'll see it as one game from an All Ireland QF. Armagh have to solve the kick out and midfield issues of Ballybofey and be smarter not to get mixed up with Donegal tactics early on which could lead to bookings etc, but I'm sure these are areas they'll look at, and Clones is a bigger pitch.
The referee in the Ulster Final was significant in the sense he caught onto Donegal's tactics of handpassing the ball into the scoring zone and then falling which usually allows them to keep the score board ticking over.
This meant their usual qouta of easy frees never occured and Derry stayed with them. As a result their forward unit struggled so it'll be interesting if they play Murphy at FF. However if the referee isn't strong enough or falls for the easy frees Donegal might be happier sticking to their usual tactics, as they'll be able to win frees within the scoring zone.
Armagh have a lot to change in a few weeks so Donegal are favourites but hopefully it's a better game this time." Who is the ref on Sunday? he'll have to keep a close eye on the tactical fouling by Armagh, I'll be surprised if Armagh finish the game with 15 men. Rian O'Neill looks to have a short fuse too, he'd be easy would up if the right man was on him.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2756 - 07/06/2022 18:38:36
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Replying To SouthOfTheGap: "Firstly, Armagh will have to try something different to Forker on Murphy, that clearly didn't work for them. Forker not up to the job. I suspect that they might try someone more mobile, possibly Jarlath Burns, and try to put Murphy on the back foot. It's at this point then that we need to decide what we're going to do to counter this.
I suspect that Armagh will concede our kick outs again, but I think they will be braver on their own. I'm sure it's something they will have worked on. Raffertys first couple of kick outs against Tyrone were poor, but he got them away okay after that. This is where Donegal will need to exert their dominance from the start, and to really go after their kick out. To go as aggressively after their kickout, does this mean a change in personnel? Do Thompson and Hughie come back in? Who misses out?" Don't worry Bonner and rochford will find the most ineffective role they can for Murphy..
totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 920 - 07/06/2022 21:44:14
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Firstly, it's refreshing to have a conversation about the game without the mud slinging last time round.
It's a pity both teams didn't get someone else this time for a break from each other but it is what it is.
I would hope that we can make a better fist of it this time as I genuinely think we're as good as Donegal. That said, tactically, Donegal have outsmarted us for years now. I would love to see a shoot-out and it would be great to see Donegal play a faster moving game as they certainly have the players to do so.
Armagh have the two men taken off on Sunday out with injuries (P Burns and C Mackin) and along with the previous injuries we are light on the bench. Forker apparently tweaked his hamstring also so I'd be surprised to see him last the whole game. I hope to see an exciting, open and fair game but I think tired legs could be a factor in the end.
ardmhacha (Armagh) - Posts: 172 - 07/06/2022 21:48:01
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From reading sam's posts you'd swear Donegal have only been in Div 1 all these years because we buy frees and nothing else.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 08/06/2022 08:27:03
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Replying To sam1884: "I think Donegal's mentality will be ok on Sunday as they'll see it as one game from an All Ireland QF. Armagh have to solve the kick out and midfield issues of Ballybofey and be smarter not to get mixed up with Donegal tactics early on which could lead to bookings etc, but I'm sure these are areas they'll look at, and Clones is a bigger pitch.
The referee in the Ulster Final was significant in the sense he caught onto Donegal's tactics of handpassing the ball into the scoring zone and then falling which usually allows them to keep the score board ticking over.
This meant their usual qouta of easy frees never occured and Derry stayed with them. As a result their forward unit struggled so it'll be interesting if they play Murphy at FF. However if the referee isn't strong enough or falls for the easy frees Donegal might be happier sticking to their usual tactics, as they'll be able to win frees within the scoring zone.
Armagh have a lot to change in a few weeks so Donegal are favourites but hopefully it's a better game this time." I don't agree with you Sam. That was not the impression I got. Referee sean hurson has been around the block and knows the craic. He pulled paddy mc for pulling a defender down which was correct.
Apart from that though he missed a clear penalty for us at the end. It was in front of me. I also Spoke to a photographer at the game from tyrone and he agreed the derry defender arms were wrapped around our forward.
Giving donegal a penalty at that stage in the game was a massive call and on the balance of play we did not deserve it.
Gumball (Donegal) - Posts: 34 - 08/06/2022 10:18:45
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Replying To sam1884: "I think Donegal's mentality will be ok on Sunday as they'll see it as one game from an All Ireland QF. Armagh have to solve the kick out and midfield issues of Ballybofey and be smarter not to get mixed up with Donegal tactics early on which could lead to bookings etc, but I'm sure these are areas they'll look at, and Clones is a bigger pitch.
The referee in the Ulster Final was significant in the sense he caught onto Donegal's tactics of handpassing the ball into the scoring zone and then falling which usually allows them to keep the score board ticking over.
This meant their usual qouta of easy frees never occured and Derry stayed with them. As a result their forward unit struggled so it'll be interesting if they play Murphy at FF. However if the referee isn't strong enough or falls for the easy frees Donegal might be happier sticking to their usual tactics, as they'll be able to win frees within the scoring zone.
Armagh have a lot to change in a few weeks so Donegal are favourites but hopefully it's a better game this time." Lazy, inaccurate synopsis of how Donegal play the game. Take off those tinted glasses.
Donegal_abroad (Donegal) - Posts: 1321 - 08/06/2022 13:22:11
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Replying To ardmhacha: "Firstly, it's refreshing to have a conversation about the game without the mud slinging last time round.
It's a pity both teams didn't get someone else this time for a break from each other but it is what it is.
I would hope that we can make a better fist of it this time as I genuinely think we're as good as Donegal. That said, tactically, Donegal have outsmarted us for years now. I would love to see a shoot-out and it would be great to see Donegal play a faster moving game as they certainly have the players to do so.
Armagh have the two men taken off on Sunday out with injuries (P Burns and C Mackin) and along with the previous injuries we are light on the bench. Forker apparently tweaked his hamstring also so I'd be surprised to see him last the whole game. I hope to see an exciting, open and fair game but I think tired legs could be a factor in the end." I agree, that got blown way out of proportion unfortunately.
I would agree that right now Armagh definitely closer to Donegal at the moment, however only really since Rian O'Neill and Co came of age in 2021, prior to that I think there was a clear gulf between the side for the best part of 10 years.
The Qualifier draw is a sham for letting teams from the same Province who already played each other twice since April play again,
I actually would like to see a Derry vs Armagh match, see the rising teams face off to see who has the edge.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 08/06/2022 14:28:10
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From recollection, I think Sam has in the past shown himself to be a Tyrone supporter. He therefore would know all about players going down easily to win frees, or heaven forbid, to have opposition players carded in the wrong. Perhaps he should try cheekpieces instead of blinkers.
On match ups for Sunday, I think if Stefan Campbell plays, then Stephen McMenamin should be detailed for that job. He has the strength to deal with him, and also takes Stephen away from potential one on one's with the likes of Nugent or Turbitt, who caused him a bit of trouble the last day.
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 586 - 08/06/2022 14:30:05
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Replying To ardmhacha: "Firstly, it's refreshing to have a conversation about the game without the mud slinging last time round.
It's a pity both teams didn't get someone else this time for a break from each other but it is what it is.
I would hope that we can make a better fist of it this time as I genuinely think we're as good as Donegal. That said, tactically, Donegal have outsmarted us for years now. I would love to see a shoot-out and it would be great to see Donegal play a faster moving game as they certainly have the players to do so.
Armagh have the two men taken off on Sunday out with injuries (P Burns and C Mackin) and along with the previous injuries we are light on the bench. Forker apparently tweaked his hamstring also so I'd be surprised to see him last the whole game. I hope to see an exciting, open and fair game but I think tired legs could be a factor in the end." I'll be honest and say Forker not playing would be a blessing for Armagh in my eyes, I actually enjoy seeing him detailed to Murphy or whoever else and trying to be the hard man. I think he's a very poor version of great Armagh defenders of the past and I think his discipline is very very poor.
Maybe I am being very harsh on him and I suppose I don't know Armagh's panel well enough to know who would replace him. But from a Donegal POV I would be happy to see him on the team sheet.
If Armagh do any of the same things as the first game, McGeeney really needs to be asked questions. I know yous have gotten the big win against Tyrone now but if you fail against us in the same manner as the prior meeting, it will be a bad indictment on his management.
I don't think it will go that way though. I think it will be a much tighter game and a lot will depend on where our heads are at. If we are tuned into the game then I think we could see a really good battle going down to the wire, but if we are slow out of the blocks or lethargic, I think Armagh can win pretty comfortably.
JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 08/06/2022 14:58:26
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Replying To JoeSoap: "I'll be honest and say Forker not playing would be a blessing for Armagh in my eyes, I actually enjoy seeing him detailed to Murphy or whoever else and trying to be the hard man. I think he's a very poor version of great Armagh defenders of the past and I think his discipline is very very poor.
Maybe I am being very harsh on him and I suppose I don't know Armagh's panel well enough to know who would replace him. But from a Donegal POV I would be happy to see him on the team sheet.
If Armagh do any of the same things as the first game, McGeeney really needs to be asked questions. I know yous have gotten the big win against Tyrone now but if you fail against us in the same manner as the prior meeting, it will be a bad indictment on his management.
I don't think it will go that way though. I think it will be a much tighter game and a lot will depend on where our heads are at. If we are tuned into the game then I think we could see a really good battle going down to the wire, but if we are slow out of the blocks or lethargic, I think Armagh can win pretty comfortably." Likewise, if Donegal continue with the same tactics, lateral play, then questions need also to be asked.
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 586 - 08/06/2022 17:21:35
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I see Brendan Cawley (Kildare) appointed as referee. I have been impressed with him in the games I've seen him do. One of them was the Donegal V Tyrone League game, so maybe Sam might like to offer his opinion.
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 586 - 08/06/2022 17:28:25
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Replying To Commodore: "I agree, that got blown way out of proportion unfortunately.
I would agree that right now Armagh definitely closer to Donegal at the moment, however only really since Rian O'Neill and Co came of age in 2021, prior to that I think there was a clear gulf between the side for the best part of 10 years.
The Qualifier draw is a sham for letting teams from the same Province who already played each other twice since April play again,
I actually would like to see a Derry vs Armagh match, see the rising teams face off to see who has the edge." Absolutely commodore - you'll not find any Armagh person argue with the gulf of class over the last 10 years. We had a fair bit of dominance over the previous decade with 7 Ulsters but sadly only 1 Sam to show at the end of it. I'm sure you'd remember the league game up in Crossmaglen which was probably the turning point for Donegal football in the late naughties and Donegal have done very well so far with this current group definitely underachieving over the last few years.
Things are probably a little more even now but I don't think either are close to Dublin or Kerry this year I'm afraid.
ardmhacha (Armagh) - Posts: 172 - 08/06/2022 19:18:53
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Replying To Tirchonaill1: "Who is the ref on Sunday? he'll have to keep a close eye on the tactical fouling by Armagh, I'll be surprised if Armagh finish the game with 15 men. Rian O'Neill looks to have a short fuse too, he'd be easy would up if the right man was on him." An interesting post.
ardmhacha (Armagh) - Posts: 172 - 08/06/2022 19:20:11
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Replying To JoeSoap: "I'll be honest and say Forker not playing would be a blessing for Armagh in my eyes, I actually enjoy seeing him detailed to Murphy or whoever else and trying to be the hard man. I think he's a very poor version of great Armagh defenders of the past and I think his discipline is very very poor.
Maybe I am being very harsh on him and I suppose I don't know Armagh's panel well enough to know who would replace him. But from a Donegal POV I would be happy to see him on the team sheet.
If Armagh do any of the same things as the first game, McGeeney really needs to be asked questions. I know yous have gotten the big win against Tyrone now but if you fail against us in the same manner as the prior meeting, it will be a bad indictment on his management.
I don't think it will go that way though. I think it will be a much tighter game and a lot will depend on where our heads are at. If we are tuned into the game then I think we could see a really good battle going down to the wire, but if we are slow out of the blocks or lethargic, I think Armagh can win pretty comfortably." Aiden is seen as a leader and his discipline record has improved over the last few years but he was definitely a liability for many years previous. He would do a similar job to what the Magee's would have done for yourselves over the years.
As both teams blow hot and cold it's just hard to know what to expect on Sunday but it's hopefully a good spectacle. I think we could run out of steam as the Tyrone game seems to have taken a lot out of the lads.
If we get destroyed tactically again then I'd agree that we have to have a serious look at our management. It's not beyond the realms of possibility to see both counties with new management next year!
ardmhacha (Armagh) - Posts: 172 - 08/06/2022 19:26:04
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Replying To ardmhacha: "Absolutely commodore - you'll not find any Armagh person argue with the gulf of class over the last 10 years. We had a fair bit of dominance over the previous decade with 7 Ulsters but sadly only 1 Sam to show at the end of it. I'm sure you'd remember the league game up in Crossmaglen which was probably the turning point for Donegal football in the late naughties and Donegal have done very well so far with this current group definitely underachieving over the last few years.
Things are probably a little more even now but I don't think either are close to Dublin or Kerry this year I'm afraid." I would agree about Dublin, I'm still not sure about Kerry, especially with David Clifford struggling with injuries in recent weeks, I could see them being caught by a number of teams.
Yeah Armagh between 2000 - 2006 were definitely a power house team that everyone wanted to avoid and they definitely should have won more All Ireland's, although understandably it was difficult to win more with those great Kerry and Tyrone teams on the scene.
It's a pity that Ulster teams keep getting thrown together in Qualifiers, especially Donegal and Armagh who have played twice already since April. Now its definitely a good test for whichever team wins, but sometimes its better to enter the Quarter final after an easy final round qualifier.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1121 - 09/06/2022 10:13:03
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