National Forum

Penalties

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "How did that apply yesterday? Referee indicated 8 mins injury time. Armagh won a genuine free close to 8 mins. Completely transparent. Less of the conspiracy theories"
Genuine free is a bit harsh tbh. Also it was taken about 8 yards from where the incident happened.

systematic (Galway) - Posts: 158 - 27/06/2022 15:12:40    2428041

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I don't like penalties in soccer even less so its brought into GAA to decide important knock out championship matches. Fair play to Pádraic Joyce after match comment on them very much nail on the head for a manager who has progressed via a penalty shootout.


Choice of penalties by the GAA is 'disgraceful'

"It's a horrible way to lose it and that's not the fault of the Armagh players, it's the fault of the GAA and the condensed season,"

"My heart goes out to Armagh. Kieran McGeeney and the boys have put in a savage effort; they have been the form team and their supporters brought fantastic colour down here today. The roar when Rian O'Neill levelled the game in normal time was deafening.

"It beggars belief as to why we couldn't have had a replay next weekend. That might sound simple for me to say because we won the game, but that was my over-riding feeling at full-time.

"It such a hard way to lose a game after putting in such an effort over the last couple; Kieran has put so much work in with them and we've also put in the work over the last two or three years, training Tuesdays and Thursdays, and at weekends. To decide the outcome on a penalty shootout.... we're not soccer, we're GAA. To me it's disgraceful it had to happen."

Gaa_lover (USA) - Posts: 3610 - 27/06/2022 15:15:04    2428044

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I think penalties are a very cruel way of settling any sport not just GAA, so for Sean Cavanagh to come out and say that losing on penalties is a disgrace, is just him just looking for attention and talking rubbish as usual. Both Armagh and Galway knew the rules yesterday as do all of the other remaining counties, so you cannot come out after the game and say that it's wrong or that they shouldn't be allowed in our game. Yes it's incredibly cruel on the losers, but as things stand, what is the alternative and even more so as the GAA come under constant pressure to condense the championship? As we have seen many times over the years in soccer, it is incredible drama, and I don't think a free taking competition would have anywhere near the same drama as penalties bring. If Sean Cavanagh or his ilk can come up with something better than penalties, then fair play to them, but until then it looks like we are stuck with penalties as a means of settling a drawn game, and there is absolutely no point in coming out and stating that penalties are a disgrace or not fit for GAA.

gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 181 - 27/06/2022 15:19:53    2428045

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Where were all the moaners when this was proposed to a committee?
I don't remember hearing their voices.
So why didn't they think about it back then?"
To be fair there's been a lot of complaints regarding the introduction of penalties since it was announced.

That was always going to increase when the first big high profile game was decided by penalties.

To be honest, I don't love them. They're obviously great drama but they feel a little hollow to me. They're necessary now I suppose with the condensed calendar unfortunately.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 27/06/2022 15:55:54    2428071

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Replying To Claretandblue:  "How did that apply yesterday? Referee indicated 8 mins injury time. Armagh won a genuine free close to 8 mins. Completely transparent. Less of the conspiracy theories"
Were you shouting for your native Clare the last day claretandblue? Did they disappoint you? lol

tommy k (Galway) - Posts: 3470 - 27/06/2022 16:12:27    2428075

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Replying To gilly1910:  "I think penalties are a very cruel way of settling any sport not just GAA, so for Sean Cavanagh to come out and say that losing on penalties is a disgrace, is just him just looking for attention and talking rubbish as usual. Both Armagh and Galway knew the rules yesterday as do all of the other remaining counties, so you cannot come out after the game and say that it's wrong or that they shouldn't be allowed in our game. Yes it's incredibly cruel on the losers, but as things stand, what is the alternative and even more so as the GAA come under constant pressure to condense the championship? As we have seen many times over the years in soccer, it is incredible drama, and I don't think a free taking competition would have anywhere near the same drama as penalties bring. If Sean Cavanagh or his ilk can come up with something better than penalties, then fair play to them, but until then it looks like we are stuck with penalties as a means of settling a drawn game, and there is absolutely no point in coming out and stating that penalties are a disgrace or not fit for GAA."
What are zoning in on Sean Cavanagh gilly? The first person to say it was a "disgrace" that the game was decided by penalties was Padraic Joyce in his post-match interview. Was he "looking for attention and talking rubbish as usual" too? No I didnt think so.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2016 - 27/06/2022 17:12:19    2428109

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Penalties are a lousy way to ddcide a GAA match. Joyce was right.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4953 - 27/06/2022 18:11:13    2428139

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Replying To PoolSturgeon:  "What are zoning in on Sean Cavanagh gilly? The first person to say it was a "disgrace" that the game was decided by penalties was Padraic Joyce in his post-match interview. Was he "looking for attention and talking rubbish as usual" too? No I didnt think so."
Because Sean Cavanagh is getting well paid to analyse our games, so just coming up with headlining grabbing soundbites adds nothing to the analysis of the right and wrongs of penalties Incidentally Padraic Joyce didn't say that penalties were a disgrace, he said that they were for soccer and not GAA, which I don't necessarily agree with in the absence of an alternative?

gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 181 - 27/06/2022 18:17:46    2428142

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Replying To Bon:  "Spot on, I've been saying that for years. No more of this giving a team a last opportunity even if time is up. Its transparent and nobody in the stadium is under any illusions as to how much time is left or if the ref blew a bit early or player over.
It couldn't be that hard to implement."
Rugby has the right timing. Stop the clock. When the clock goes red, let the game play until the ball goes out of play.
The ball shouldn't be booted into the stands however. If the ball is irresponsibly kicked out of play, a sideline kick can be rewarded to the opponent.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8788 - 27/06/2022 18:23:51    2428145

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Replying To gilly1910:  "Because Sean Cavanagh is getting well paid to analyse our games, so just coming up with headlining grabbing soundbites adds nothing to the analysis of the right and wrongs of penalties Incidentally Padraic Joyce didn't say that penalties were a disgrace, he said that they were for soccer and not GAA, which I don't necessarily agree with in the absence of an alternative?"
To be fair in the interview I heard Joyce talked about the effort inter county teams put into preparation and the respect he has for McGeeney and Armagh as they work as hard, before mentioning he said at the end of time (not sure normal or extra) we should be coming back again, and penalties are for soccer and used the term disgrace.

He was very clear whilst happy to get through penalties should not of been used on Sunday and he is right, this was then backed up by Cavanagh on the SG.

Two amateur inter county teams drew the match after 90 minutes with neither able to beat the other, to then use penalities to get one of them out was and is a farce especially for the GAA where not many on a team use the skills required, and after the first game to make it more bewildering.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 28/06/2022 08:23:27    2428217

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Winston Churchill famously said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all others.
I think that when a game ends up level after extra time and there is no scope in the calendar for a replay then i think the same can be said about penalties. They are the worst way to decide the result , apart from all the alternatives.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 982 - 28/06/2022 09:43:00    2428239

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Replying To sam1884:  "To be fair in the interview I heard Joyce talked about the effort inter county teams put into preparation and the respect he has for McGeeney and Armagh as they work as hard, before mentioning he said at the end of time (not sure normal or extra) we should be coming back again, and penalties are for soccer and used the term disgrace.

He was very clear whilst happy to get through penalties should not of been used on Sunday and he is right, this was then backed up by Cavanagh on the SG.

Two amateur inter county teams drew the match after 90 minutes with neither able to beat the other, to then use penalities to get one of them out was and is a farce especially for the GAA where not many on a team use the skills required, and after the first game to make it more bewildering."
To be fair Sam, the Galway penalties were excellent, and Joyce admitted that they had been practising them for sometime. So whatever about the rights and wrongs of penalties, it would make perfect sense for all of the teams left to have practised them on the basis that penalties were/are always a possibility. You say that not many on a GAA team would have the skills required to take penalties, but you could also apply the same to soccer, for as we all know from watching many penalty shootouts over the years, many highly paid professionals have regularly fluffed their lines. Penalties are more of a test of nerve than skill, and while I do agree that going forward replays should be factored in for the Quarter Finals onwards, it's very hard to see a viable alternative to penalties?

gilly1910 (Galway) - Posts: 181 - 28/06/2022 10:10:30    2428249

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Replying To gilly1910:  "Because Sean Cavanagh is getting well paid to analyse our games, so just coming up with headlining grabbing soundbites adds nothing to the analysis of the right and wrongs of penalties Incidentally Padraic Joyce didn't say that penalties were a disgrace, he said that they were for soccer and not GAA, which I don't necessarily agree with in the absence of an alternative?"
Penalties have been in gaelic football since.......?
If we want the split season with condensed County season then replays are out of the question.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2296 - 28/06/2022 11:16:56    2428269

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Replying To sam1884:  "To be fair in the interview I heard Joyce talked about the effort inter county teams put into preparation and the respect he has for McGeeney and Armagh as they work as hard, before mentioning he said at the end of time (not sure normal or extra) we should be coming back again, and penalties are for soccer and used the term disgrace.

He was very clear whilst happy to get through penalties should not of been used on Sunday and he is right, this was then backed up by Cavanagh on the SG.

Two amateur inter county teams drew the match after 90 minutes with neither able to beat the other, to then use penalities to get one of them out was and is a farce especially for the GAA where not many on a team use the skills required, and after the first game to make it more bewildering."
How many in soccer use the skill?? Plenty of amateur competitions have shoot outs of various types.

At the end of the day it is a trade off versus having a stable fixture list and therefore a stable club fixture list. If we had a replay then someone would have complained about playing 3 weeks in a row!

Penalties are not ideal but from an entertainment point of view they are box office. And they keep the fixture list in good shape.

Personally the championship is probably too condensed and you could have an extra 4 weeks which would facilitate replays at certain stages. Lots of county championships not starting until September anyway.

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1920 - 28/06/2022 13:47:59    2428314

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Apologies for going a bit off topic. Was the FBD league game against us in 2019 the last game Galway were in a penalty shootout?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7978 - 28/06/2022 14:50:30    2428361

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I'd agree that the condensed season has probably forced the issue but personally i think its no way to finish the game.

How about after extra time...its whoever gets the next score.. some will say that the games will go on forever but it took a fair long time the other night to get the penalties organised and sorted out. I'm sure we'd have had at least one point from either of the teams in that time

ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 555 - 28/06/2022 18:07:39    2428445

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Penalties have been in gaelic football since.......?
If we want the split season with condensed County season then replays are out of the question."
Those penalties you can score a point in while in a shootout its goals only and do we really need to copy another sport in how to decide drawn games?

The_analyser (Roscommon) - Posts: 4043 - 28/06/2022 18:21:15    2428447

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Replying To Mayonman:  "How many in soccer use the skill?? Plenty of amateur competitions have shoot outs of various types.

At the end of the day it is a trade off versus having a stable fixture list and therefore a stable club fixture list. If we had a replay then someone would have complained about playing 3 weeks in a row!

Penalties are not ideal but from an entertainment point of view they are box office. And they keep the fixture list in good shape.

Personally the championship is probably too condensed and you could have an extra 4 weeks which would facilitate replays at certain stages. Lots of county championships not starting until September anyway."
Soccer is a completly different game and the skills used are a lot different, for a start the only way to score in soccer is into a net so it's obvious it would form a broader part of an individuals skillset.

It is a trade off I agree but the numbers heading to the US and London post inter county season begs the question why inter county players are being made decide day one All Ireland series games by penalty kicks! It's great players are taking up opportunities and most will I'm sure return much later in the summer for club championships as you say most likely in September.

I'd agree with you; extend the inter county season by 3 or 4 weeks and allow one replay throughout the All Ireland series, now I still wouldn't totally agree ;) but if it's still a draw after extra time in the replay then we might have to use penalties but at least by that stage teams will have had two full games including extra time in both games to decide a winner, if there still isn't a winner we couldn't go to a third game so there isn't much of a choice.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 28/06/2022 18:48:49    2428452

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Rugby has the right timing. Stop the clock. When the clock goes red, let the game play until the ball goes out of play.
The ball shouldn't be booted into the stands however. If the ball is irresponsibly kicked out of play, a sideline kick can be rewarded to the opponent."
In Rugby the the team this winning has the right to kick the ball out of play when the clock goes into the red ,why should they be penalised once the clock is in the the red and time is up. Obviously the team behind wants to keep it going and try and score. But I agree the clock should be used the same as the Rugby or else the way the ladies football do it.

dubarra (Wicklow) - Posts: 541 - 28/06/2022 20:42:09    2428479

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Apologies for going a bit off topic. Was the FBD league game against us in 2019 the last game Galway were in a penalty shootout?"
Yes you are right but almost happened against Monaghan in the league last year only for a Jack McCarran special with the last kick in extra time!!

Tj73 (Galway) - Posts: 29 - 28/06/2022 21:08:37    2428486

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