National Forum

National Hurling League Proposal

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The managers have just asked for an extra week."
There are a few small tweaks would be good for sure.
1-Kerry should go up to Munster for a 5 year period see if it brings them along. Might encourage more young lads take up the sport and grow playing numbers. Review in 5 years and if playing numbers are up at underage then go 5 years again.
2- 4 week gap between League final and Championship. Start League 1 week earlier and Championship 1 week later.
3- 2 week gap between Joe Mac final and AIPQF.

Hopefully lads will try harder win the League then. And the championship can stay a championship rather than just be another League.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5227 - 15/06/2022 07:36:39    2425061

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Limerick still wouldn't care if they won it or not.

I never get why people like "competitions" where the top teams don't actually care if they win them or not."
Limerick were very happy to win it until this year when it left no time to prepare. Kilkenny in their heyday likewise.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5227 - 15/06/2022 07:38:00    2425062

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Replying To legendzxix:  "A simple solution to save a week and inject intensity to the league:
Return to Divisions 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 3A and 3B on metric system. Simply allow the top 2 into the division final. Promote division winners. Relegate the bottom placed teams. We can then all enjoy the league in our respective divisions?"
That would work either

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5227 - 15/06/2022 07:38:38    2425063

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Under the old Division 1A and 1B. The relegation final in 1A had managers scrambling to avoid 5th and 6th. If they had relegated the 6th placed team, everyone would have accepted it. 1 in 6 as opposed to 1 in 3 places would have had the relegation danger.
Kerry should not be promoted to Munster for anything more than a guarantee of 1 year. If the McDonagh winner determines the province with 6 teams, everyone is treated equally.
If 1 of the top 9 ever happens to be relegated, they should take their medicine like Offaly who have gone before them. It is often overlooked that the McDonagh is a part of the McCarthy Cup. 17 teams start the championship with an opportunity of winning the All-Ireland.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6792 - 15/06/2022 11:56:08    2425125

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Under the old Division 1A and 1B. The relegation final in 1A had managers scrambling to avoid 5th and 6th. If they had relegated the 6th placed team, everyone would have accepted it. 1 in 6 as opposed to 1 in 3 places would have had the relegation danger.
Kerry should not be promoted to Munster for anything more than a guarantee of 1 year. If the McDonagh winner determines the province with 6 teams, everyone is treated equally.
If 1 of the top 9 ever happens to be relegated, they should take their medicine like Offaly who have gone before them. It is often overlooked that the McDonagh is a part of the McCarthy Cup. 17 teams start the championship with an opportunity of winning the All-Ireland."
That solution is still not fair in Kerry. They should be allowed to play off against the 5th placed Leinster team in that scenario. The hazard in the Leinster championship should remain but it is also irritating that the 5 main Munster teams also protect themselves. If they're good enough they shouldn't be getting relegated.

I know the current system brings up some good matches but it really is flawed from a competitive integrity point of view in some regards.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3797 - 15/06/2022 15:21:59    2425180

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Replying To Whammo86:  "That solution is still not fair in Kerry. They should be allowed to play off against the 5th placed Leinster team in that scenario. The hazard in the Leinster championship should remain but it is also irritating that the 5 main Munster teams also protect themselves. If they're good enough they shouldn't be getting relegated.

I know the current system brings up some good matches but it really is flawed from a competitive integrity point of view in some regards."
How is it unfair on Kerry? If we win the McDonagh, we can be automatically promoted as the 6th team in Munster. If we then, as expected, finish 6th after a tough Munster championship, it is fair enough that we go back to the McDonagh and that the McDonagh winner join their province.

Only minor tweaks are needed to the hurling league and championship format.
1. A return to Divisions 1A and 1B on metric system.
2. A 3 week gap from league final to provincial championship.
3. Rackard and Meager Cups starting 2 weeks before the provincial championships. The finals should be a double header in Croke Park on the weekend of Provincial Round 4. (Spórt TG4 - YouTube or TG4)
4. McDonagh and Ring Cups starting 1 week before the provincial championships. The finals should be a double header in Croke Park on the weekend of Provincial Round 5. (RTE2)
5. The Preliminary Quarter-finals can be on the same weekend as Provincial finals. RTÉ can show the first preliminary quarter-final on the Saturday, before the broadcast of the Leinster final. RTÉ can show the second preliminary quarter-final on the Sunday, before the broadcast of the Munster final. It will give the McDonagh finalists the platform of 2 live games on TV.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6792 - 15/06/2022 16:42:31    2425208

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Replying To legendzxix:  "How is it unfair on Kerry? If we win the McDonagh, we can be automatically promoted as the 6th team in Munster. If we then, as expected, finish 6th after a tough Munster championship, it is fair enough that we go back to the McDonagh and that the McDonagh winner join their province.

Only minor tweaks are needed to the hurling league and championship format.
1. A return to Divisions 1A and 1B on metric system.
2. A 3 week gap from league final to provincial championship.
3. Rackard and Meager Cups starting 2 weeks before the provincial championships. The finals should be a double header in Croke Park on the weekend of Provincial Round 4. (Spórt TG4 - YouTube or TG4)
4. McDonagh and Ring Cups starting 1 week before the provincial championships. The finals should be a double header in Croke Park on the weekend of Provincial Round 5. (RTE2)
5. The Preliminary Quarter-finals can be on the same weekend as Provincial finals. RTÉ can show the first preliminary quarter-final on the Saturday, before the broadcast of the Leinster final. RTÉ can show the second preliminary quarter-final on the Sunday, before the broadcast of the Munster final. It will give the McDonagh finalists the platform of 2 live games on TV."
Kerry should have a go against the 5th place Leinster team. Kerry would be much less likely to stay up from a 6 team Munster group than Antrim going up to a 6 team Leinster group.

The national championship should be nationally organised in both codes.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3797 - 15/06/2022 17:49:28    2425227

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Kerry should have a go against the 5th place Leinster team. Kerry would be much less likely to stay up from a 6 team Munster group than Antrim going up to a 6 team Leinster group.

The national championship should be nationally organised in both codes."
If Kerry finish 6th, your suggestion is that we can take on 5th in Leinster to decide who is relegated?
If so, it is an option but is that unfair on the 5th team in Leinster? Laois didn't get a play-off against Tipperary. Relegating the 6th team in which ever province has 6 teams in the current year is fair for all.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6792 - 16/06/2022 11:25:41    2425319

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Replying To legendzxix:  "If Kerry finish 6th, your suggestion is that we can take on 5th in Leinster to decide who is relegated?
If so, it is an option but is that unfair on the 5th team in Leinster? Laois didn't get a play-off against Tipperary. Relegating the 6th team in which ever province has 6 teams in the current year is fair for all."
It is fairer and also you need it, else a team like Laois doesn't have any hazard in their campaign.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3797 - 16/06/2022 12:57:47    2425365

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It is fairer and also you need it, else a team like Laois doesn't have any hazard in their campaign."
So your suggestion is that if Kerry finish 6th, we can playoff to avoid relegation? If a Leinster county finishes 6th, they must be automatically relegated?

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6792 - 17/06/2022 11:07:45    2425576

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Replying To legendzxix:  "So your suggestion is that if Kerry finish 6th, we can playoff to avoid relegation? If a Leinster county finishes 6th, they must be automatically relegated?"
Yeah exactly. I don't love that idea either and it's why I'd be in favour of a 12 team All Ireland where everyone plays everyone else once or a 14 team All Ireland where every team plays 7 fixtures.

Both systems to include knockout provincial championship matches in the 11 or 7 game schedule for each team.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 3797 - 17/06/2022 16:57:19    2425662

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Yeah exactly. I don't love that idea either and it's why I'd be in favour of a 12 team All Ireland where everyone plays everyone else once or a 14 team All Ireland where every team plays 7 fixtures.

Both systems to include knockout provincial championship matches in the 11 or 7 game schedule for each team."
At this current time, I think the McDonagh winner determining the province with 6 is the way to go.
Antrim showed against Cork that they are ready to challenge meaningfully in Leinster.
I don't think Kerry are quite there yet. Outside the top 9, there are the following:
Tier 2.1 Westmeath, Antrim and Laois.
Tier 2.2 Kerry, Carlow and Offaly.
Tier 2.3 Down, Kildare and Meath.

Kerry, Carlow and Offaly aren't far off Westmeath, Antrim and Laois. If we get to a stage where both McDonagh finalists are matching their more illustrious opponents in the preliminary quarter-finals, it'll make a strong case for even All-Ireland groups.
One important factor to take into consideration is crowds. The McDonagh Cup has been a great tournament but the crowds are only about 20% of what they should be getting for the quality on offer.
The GAA, their marketing department and county boards have to work more meaningfully together to try and bring people along.
Laois had a big crowd for Dublin. The crowds haven't stayed with them. Will the crowds return for a promotion push? If crowds return for a promotion push, it kind of strengthens the argument for the current structure! It's a difficult one.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 6792 - 18/06/2022 11:53:02    2425732

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