National Forum

Derry V Donegal Ulster Final

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Firstly congratulations to Derry on a deserved victory. There was great colour and atmosphere in Clones yesterday and not a hint of any bother. It was always going to be a tight one and Derry just had that wee bit more conviction in extra time to see themselves home. Gallagher has them so well set up tactically but Derry have some outstanding footballers too.

You'll not get a better man marker in the country than Chrissy McKaigue. Brendan Rogers must be the most dangerous full back in the game! McGuigan didn't get much space to operate in yesterday but he was unerring from frees. Conor Glass is a machine and I really like the wing forward Cassidy. He has a couple of wee tricks in his locker to get away from a marker and is well able to kick a score.

For ourselves it was just bitterly disappointing. We offered little variety in our attacking play. It all just looked so predictable. We all knew that Derry would operate a defensive screen so patience was required. But not to the point that it would put you to sleep. I have a hard time accepting that Donegal do not possess players who can beat a man or kick a point from distance. Or who can kick long accurate diagonal balls into the danger area the odd time where one of the best full forwards in the game might capitalise?

Anyway comghairdeas arís muintir na Doire. We'll just have to lick our wounds and see what the qualifier draw brings."
Your assessment on Donegal here has hit the nail on the head for me. Patience required but they completely went over the top there. Donegal have some really quick runners and a keeper that has one of the best kick outs about. Also have some big men that can do damage with long balls in and men that can take points from distance. So theres definitely plenty to work with. I'm just afraid that we'll never see this teams true potential with yesterdays tactics. As for Murphy, he's not many years left especially when we are dogging him all over the pitch.

fielder (Donegal) - Posts: 137 - 30/05/2022 11:54:22    2421022

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we are embarrassment bonnar needs to go

red.hugh (Donegal) - Posts: 175 - 30/05/2022 11:58:38    2421024

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I wouldn't blame ward or any defender for not shooting, as they are afraid for there lives if they miss and get a roasting from the sideline or from two or three certain players. This is management's fault, and it is drilled into players from management that get the ball to certain players that can shoot and retain possession at all cost.
I know for a fact that one of our best young players was told not to shoot and look for certain players. And the sad thing about it is this young player can play and shoot from both feet. But his confidence is destroyed because we have a manager who sticks with the same under performing players because they might come up with a winning score in the last kick of the game.
This management team in Donegal is destroying the confidence of some of our best young talent. To me if he really cares about Donegal football and not his ego, he should step away at the end of the season.
Search for a top quality manager who believes in young players and gives them confidence to have a go. For me looking in, we have a lot of very talented footballers, we just need the right management to lead them.

The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 30/05/2022 12:04:10    2421027

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Exactly. I know Michael probably feels he can contribute more dictating things out the field but he shouldn't want to or need to be fulfilling that role for us anymore. Fair enough if we're ahead in the closing stages and we need a cool, experienced head around the middle to retain possession. But in terms of how we should be approaching games, i.e. to go and win them, rather than hoping we don't lose, Murphy has to play inside.

It would immediately force the opposition into a rethink. I would say most teams now simply accept that Murphy is going to play out the field and they plan accordingly. If we started games with Murphy on the square and looked to hit him early it would cause havoc. Exhibit A - All Ireland final 2012. Even before his goal Donegal were trying to hit him.

If we're not winning primary possession from kickouts where we have Caolan McGonigle, Jason McGee, Hugh McFadden and Ciaran Thompson contesting them then something is wrong.

Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9154 - 30/05/2022 12:37:55    2421038

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Replying To The keeper:  "I wouldn't blame ward or any defender for not shooting, as they are afraid for there lives if they miss and get a roasting from the sideline or from two or three certain players. This is management's fault, and it is drilled into players from management that get the ball to certain players that can shoot and retain possession at all cost.
I know for a fact that one of our best young players was told not to shoot and look for certain players. And the sad thing about it is this young player can play and shoot from both feet. But his confidence is destroyed because we have a manager who sticks with the same under performing players because they might come up with a winning score in the last kick of the game.
This management team in Donegal is destroying the confidence of some of our best young talent. To me if he really cares about Donegal football and not his ego, he should step away at the end of the season.
Search for a top quality manager who believes in young players and gives them confidence to have a go. For me looking in, we have a lot of very talented footballers, we just need the right management to lead them."
Who's this great young fella your on about. He must be a n Conal man and if he is he should be well used to not shooting. Players are equally to blame as management I posted about players fouling , missing frees, taking the wrong option, being 2 points up and not pushing on, do you honestly think this was part of the game plan, but my two posts today were not posted. By the timing of your post yesterday you weren't even at the game. Surprise surprise, Derry showed us how to support a team yesterday. You support a team by going to matches not being a know it all by abusing people on social media after games..

rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2410 - 30/05/2022 12:57:07    2421053

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It was an intriguing game to watch on the TV. Derry the better team no doubt. High levels of fitness and skill on display from Derry and Donegal looked very lifeless

AntrimJim (Antrim) - Posts: 39 - 30/05/2022 13:29:52    2421072

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Replying To Lockjaw:  "Exactly. I know Michael probably feels he can contribute more dictating things out the field but he shouldn't want to or need to be fulfilling that role for us anymore. Fair enough if we're ahead in the closing stages and we need a cool, experienced head around the middle to retain possession. But in terms of how we should be approaching games, i.e. to go and win them, rather than hoping we don't lose, Murphy has to play inside.

It would immediately force the opposition into a rethink. I would say most teams now simply accept that Murphy is going to play out the field and they plan accordingly. If we started games with Murphy on the square and looked to hit him early it would cause havoc. Exhibit A - All Ireland final 2012. Even before his goal Donegal were trying to hit him.

If we're not winning primary possession from kickouts where we have Caolan McGonigle, Jason McGee, Hugh McFadden and Ciaran Thompson contesting them then something is wrong."
Murphy was on the Sunday game a few years ago and basically told people himself why he comes out. He wants to get his hands on the ball. On the size 5 as he put it.
I suppose the logic being that his say 30 touches a match out the field will have a bigger influence than say his 10 touches inside. Up to now the moving in and out has worked I think yesterday proved that he probably just needs to keep on the inside from now on. Others need to stand up out the field. Mcbrearty stayed up the field yesterday but he doesn't really offer himself as a man you can kick into anymore. He's probably lost a yard of pace from his injury and he's not as good at murphy at winning a ball kicked into him. I'd let murphy play that upfront role on his own and use him as the fulcrum to the attack.

Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 696 - 30/05/2022 13:43:05    2421080

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Derry the better team, and should have won the game in normal time, two bad wides. Donegal did not look good enough.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1745 - 30/05/2022 13:45:52    2421082

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Donegal's use of subs under this management is poor, only 3 subs used yesterday in the 70 minutes, even though some players had emptied the tank and had nothing left. Then they made no changes to the 15 that started extra time, meaning we were limited to 3 subs, should be starting extra time with a couple fresh players. What's the point in having players on the bench if they're not going to be used.

greenfan (Donegal) - Posts: 473 - 30/05/2022 13:54:11    2421091

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "Couldn't disagree with you more.

It was clear from early on how Donegal were instructed to play by the management from early on - CAUTIOUS CAUTIOUS CAUTIOUS to the point that they played keep ball to get to extra time. Well that backfired spectacularly as Derry were clearly the fitter team in extra time. Absolutely nothing to do with the players 'not performing' - they're not allowed to perform to their strengths. Murphy playing in the full back line case in point.

They were set up yesterday not to win the game but not to lose the game - maybe the grand plan was to take it to penalties?

Compare this to Galway (a similar level of players to ourselves) who are playing an attractive brand of football which their players are flourishing in. They went at Derry in the league and beat them out the gate in their back yard.

This management has had five seasons with a talented squad and still not as much as an AL semi final never mind a final or title. And I can guarantee you we won't this year either if we go out again with that 'gameplan' that was evident yesterday. Is it any wonder Derry supporters outnumbered us yesterday, who would pay to watch that tripe?

Unforgiveable."
Don't want to get in to any arguments about what's what peilledoir, but don't be daft thinking any management would want a team to go to penalties, a lottery, and your saying cautious cautious if your a top class player which we believe we have you make space for yourself regardless of instructions. How many times did P mc B run into the corner yesterday and when he has to turn to his favourite foot lost the ball. The whole of the country knows how to mark paddy out of it but him and all his experience couldn't see to make a run inside for once to receive a ball over the top, and he's not alone there's a few bucks there with loads of experience this past 10 yrs that have seriously regressed this Yr and if there not big enough to question management about the way he wants them to play I just don't know. Let the younger bucks get a chance in the qualifiers cause maybe theyl play without fear of being shown up.
There's lads there with a lot of miles in the legs that aren't leading by example any more and if you think that's the management's fault then good luck to you. Yesterday was bad enough without today getting worse by arguing the toss.

Tyrion (Donegal) - Posts: 160 - 30/05/2022 13:57:00    2421092

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Ye are wasting your time here talking about particular matches or murphy etc.. for years i have said bonnar hasn't a clue and we have lost a golden generation of footballers and on top of that we are embarrassing ourselves with the style of play !!

its ironic , Bonnar was condemning Gallagher for his negative play back in 15, 16 .. telling the world that we can play positive football !! yesterday we were scared to lose but even more afraid to play ..

How many more defeats do we need ??

Honestly Bonnar out today and let Rory Kavanagh take over for the qualifiers

red.hugh (Donegal) - Posts: 175 - 30/05/2022 14:05:00    2421099

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Replying To Tyrion:  "Don't want to get in to any arguments about what's what peilledoir, but don't be daft thinking any management would want a team to go to penalties, a lottery, and your saying cautious cautious if your a top class player which we believe we have you make space for yourself regardless of instructions. How many times did P mc B run into the corner yesterday and when he has to turn to his favourite foot lost the ball. The whole of the country knows how to mark paddy out of it but him and all his experience couldn't see to make a run inside for once to receive a ball over the top, and he's not alone there's a few bucks there with loads of experience this past 10 yrs that have seriously regressed this Yr and if there not big enough to question management about the way he wants them to play I just don't know. Let the younger bucks get a chance in the qualifiers cause maybe theyl play without fear of being shown up.
There's lads there with a lot of miles in the legs that aren't leading by example any more and if you think that's the management's fault then good luck to you. Yesterday was bad enough without today getting worse by arguing the toss."
Likewise i am not here to argue but you'll find the vast majority of people both within the county and national aren't blaming the players and that speaks volumes.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 806 - 30/05/2022 14:23:33    2421105

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Replying To thelongridge:  "Derry the better team, and should have won the game in normal time, two bad wides. Donegal did not look good enough."
If Derry had kicked over one of those 2 last chances in normal time they would have only been doing the Donegal fans a favour an putting us out of our misery,
in the last minute of injury time we held possession in case we got turned over it seemed to me anyway rather than go forward and take a shot at goals which was I'd imagine what an normal team trying to win a game would have done,
if you don't score at least put the ball dead and the ref was going to blow up for the draw more than likely with the kickout,
we would hardly have deserved to win it but we could have nicked it then had we any ambition of winning the game instead of trying not o lose it.
Michael Murphy must be so sick of carrying this team, I'm sick myself of watching the way we play and what is killing me is I know if we opened up and varied our play we had the beating of Derry, we just don't have the leaders off or on the field apart from the mighty Murphy of course.

as someone said unless we win the All Ireland this year (snowballs chance in hell springs to mind) then we need a change of leadership, it's not working and it's getting worse far as I can see.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2756 - 30/05/2022 14:33:10    2421113

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Replying To AntrimJim:  "It was an intriguing game to watch on the TV. Derry the better team no doubt. High levels of fitness and skill on display from Derry and Donegal looked very lifeless"
I find this sort of idea of the game yesterday kind of odd. Nothing against you personally AntrimJim it's a type of post and I've seen it replicated among pundits across the country.

But how do you tally Derry having high level of fitness and skills vs Donegal looking lifeless (and from some pundits: poor, disgraceful, pedestrian, lacking ideas, take your pick from the above!) - and yet Donegal only lose by 2 points after ET?

By all accounts if Donegal were as bad as many have been saying, we'd have been beat out the gate.

I am as sore as anyone about the defeat but I don't understand this idea that Derry were miles ahead of us.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 30/05/2022 14:50:04    2421122

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "Likewise i am not here to argue but you'll find the vast majority of people both within the county and national aren't blaming the players and that speaks volumes."
It's an amateur sport so nobody blames players, they give their best as in every county. The view of the country is Donegal have Murphy who somehow keeps them competitive in league and championship.

Ballybofey is also a great help to Donegal teams. However there isn't a view across the country that Donegal have enough to win an All Ireland and not a lot of people are surprised Derry won the Ulster Championship yesterday. It's unlikely a change of management would have much of an impact. The big worry for Donegal is how much longer Murphy can carry the team. Donegal need to avoid Mayo or Tyrone in the Qualifers but even then QF is likely their limit this season.

sam1884 (UK) - Posts: 999 - 30/05/2022 14:57:08    2421131

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "I find this sort of idea of the game yesterday kind of odd. Nothing against you personally AntrimJim it's a type of post and I've seen it replicated among pundits across the country.

But how do you tally Derry having high level of fitness and skills vs Donegal looking lifeless (and from some pundits: poor, disgraceful, pedestrian, lacking ideas, take your pick from the above!) - and yet Donegal only lose by 2 points after ET?

By all accounts if Donegal were as bad as many have been saying, we'd have been beat out the gate.

I am as sore as anyone about the defeat but I don't understand this idea that Derry were miles ahead of us."
Derry were a long way ahead. They were more economical with the ball and had the know how when it came to closing the result.

AntrimJim (Antrim) - Posts: 39 - 30/05/2022 15:21:13    2421141

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I hope for Derrys next game it doesn't clash with a Derry City game cause the soccer fans in clones yesterday will be up in arms trying to choose. Some of them were absolutely disgraceful but everyone could see that they aren't used to big days in clones.

On the game itself I believe it was lost on the sideline for us. Ciaran Thompson on the bench until extra time was a joke. we held the ball for a minute or more in added time of normal time when we needed a person to step up and take a shot no one but Thompson would have.

BONNER HAS TO GO!!!!!!!!

naomh_conaill_4 (Donegal) - Posts: 481 - 30/05/2022 15:25:40    2421144

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Replying To essmac:  ""running at an opposition player and then throwing themselves to the ground, for their reliable free takers to kick points throughout the game"

All teams do this; as you say, great to see the ref not being codded by that carry-on on this occasion; once in sight of the posts, strong lads falling over like skittles if an opposing player so much as looks sideways at them. About time some of them were carded for it."
No bigger culprit than Matty Donnelly , he can actually fall backwards as if he was clotheslined. Embarrassing to watch.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2016 - 30/05/2022 17:02:50    2421201

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "If Derry had kicked over one of those 2 last chances in normal time they would have only been doing the Donegal fans a favour an putting us out of our misery,
in the last minute of injury time we held possession in case we got turned over it seemed to me anyway rather than go forward and take a shot at goals which was I'd imagine what an normal team trying to win a game would have done,
if you don't score at least put the ball dead and the ref was going to blow up for the draw more than likely with the kickout,
we would hardly have deserved to win it but we could have nicked it then had we any ambition of winning the game instead of trying not o lose it.
Michael Murphy must be so sick of carrying this team, I'm sick myself of watching the way we play and what is killing me is I know if we opened up and varied our play we had the beating of Derry, we just don't have the leaders off or on the field apart from the mighty Murphy of course.

as someone said unless we win the All Ireland this year (snowballs chance in hell springs to mind) then we need a change of leadership, it's not working and it's getting worse far as I can see."
I know you must be annoyed with Donegal, but I haven't seen an improvement over the past few years, losses to Cavan, Tyrone, and now Derry, prove your point. Yesterday's final, short on scores was competitive, like Connacht.
Saturday's fare was one sided, and predictable. I cut the lawn for the Munster game, and endured the Leinster Final. We have problems, maybe an open draw is an option, and drop the provincial system.

thelongridge (Offaly) - Posts: 1745 - 30/05/2022 17:30:51    2421227

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Replying To rorysboys:  "Who's this great young fella your on about. He must be a n Conal man and if he is he should be well used to not shooting. Players are equally to blame as management I posted about players fouling , missing frees, taking the wrong option, being 2 points up and not pushing on, do you honestly think this was part of the game plan, but my two posts today were not posted. By the timing of your post yesterday you weren't even at the game. Surprise surprise, Derry showed us how to support a team yesterday. You support a team by going to matches not being a know it all by abusing people on social media after games.."
First of all, no its not a NC player
Secondly all i ever hear is excuses for bonner, its the manager's job to improve players and the team. And ask any real Donegal supporter's on the street or at games, they want Bonner and his management team to step down. We all have had enough.
There was big derry support there yesterday because there supporter's actually believe in there manager and the fact its been so long since they had success.
I have meet and been talking to Die hard Donegal supporter's who live and breathe gaa, that stopped following Donegal as long as Bonner is there.
And finally, i dont really care what you say, i realised a long time ago that your football knowledge is very limited and you come across in your posts as childish.
Anyone making excuses for Bonner at this stage, i would have to question there football knowledge.

The keeper (Donegal) - Posts: 687 - 30/05/2022 17:55:56    2421235

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