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I don't know if it would work, but should provincial championships be knock out and then have 2 x groups of 6 for the All-Ireland series? Get rid of Walsh/Waterford Crystal Cup.
Reduce the league groups to 4 teams (i.e. 3 games, warm up tournament it is), then up to 3 in provincial championship.
Then, 2 x groups of 6 teams. 5 games for everybody. How the groups could work, etc is another days work.
There are 24 weeks from 1st round of the league to All Ireland final this year, the above should easily be possible. Given there are 11 games to the end of the round robin.
Gives everybody a fair crack at qualifying. Wexford or Dublin will qualify for AI series this year and neither deserve it.
I won't be here for the follow-up discussion but starting a discussion, if the train wifi allows.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 15/05/2022 11:32:41
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It would almost definitely work to Wexford's disadvantage, be careful what you wish for StoreysTash!
It would make sure the best teams come through, of that there is no doubt. Its a lot of games is it not?
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1128 - 16/05/2022 16:54:53
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I think it works really well as it is
DuhallowRed (Cork) - Posts: 268 - 16/05/2022 18:03:45
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Replying To StoreysTash: "I don't know if it would work, but should provincial championships be knock out and then have 2 x groups of 6 for the All-Ireland series? Get rid of Walsh/Waterford Crystal Cup.
Reduce the league groups to 4 teams (i.e. 3 games, warm up tournament it is), then up to 3 in provincial championship.
Then, 2 x groups of 6 teams. 5 games for everybody. How the groups could work, etc is another days work.
There are 24 weeks from 1st round of the league to All Ireland final this year, the above should easily be possible. Given there are 11 games to the end of the round robin.
Gives everybody a fair crack at qualifying. Wexford or Dublin will qualify for AI series this year and neither deserve it.
I won't be here for the follow-up discussion but starting a discussion, if the train wifi allows." Yeah I think this would be better.
The Provincials could be used to seed the All Ireland.
You have the Munster champions in the same group as the Leinster runner up and the Munster semifinalists that they haven't already played.
Leinster champions in with the Munster finalists and Leinster Semifinalists they didn't already play.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 16/05/2022 18:08:02
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Replying To StoreysTash: "I don't know if it would work, but should provincial championships be knock out and then have 2 x groups of 6 for the All-Ireland series? Get rid of Walsh/Waterford Crystal Cup.
Reduce the league groups to 4 teams (i.e. 3 games, warm up tournament it is), then up to 3 in provincial championship.
Then, 2 x groups of 6 teams. 5 games for everybody. How the groups could work, etc is another days work.
There are 24 weeks from 1st round of the league to All Ireland final this year, the above should easily be possible. Given there are 11 games to the end of the round robin.
Gives everybody a fair crack at qualifying. Wexford or Dublin will qualify for AI series this year and neither deserve it.
I won't be here for the follow-up discussion but starting a discussion, if the train wifi allows." Why not play league in between the championship like a lot of other sports.
I do agree about getting rid of pre season competitions. just let teams play friendlies which they already do.
I dont see why the number of league games should be reduced. its changed from just a warm up competition and its only shot of winning something and is still a senior inter county national competition. shouldnt be as dismissed
KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3510 - 16/05/2022 18:55:51
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There is an imbalance but the 4th and 5th Munster teams will accept their elimination from the championship.
While Leinster might not be as competitive, it carries the real threat of relegation. All in all, I think there's a fair compromise overall.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 17/05/2022 10:42:23
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The Leinster and Munster councils would strangle this notion very early.
jobber (Westmeath) - Posts: 1457 - 17/05/2022 12:14:48
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Replying To legendzxix: "There is an imbalance but the 4th and 5th Munster teams will accept their elimination from the championship.
While Leinster might not be as competitive, it carries the real threat of relegation. All in all, I think there's a fair compromise overall." But he is saying keep the provincial championships, just run them earlier?
I could be wrong, but I guess what he is proposing:
Group A:
Limerick
Cork
Kilkenny
Dublin
Westmeath
Group B:
Clare
Tipperary
Waterford
Galway
Wexford
Laois
I don't know but that is my guess.
In true GAA style, if something a la this happened they would need 7 teams, lest Wexford/Waterford/Dublin have a bad year and end up relegated.
I wouldn't see it getting out of the blocks and the traditionalists would have a weakness.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1128 - 18/05/2022 12:13:34
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "But he is saying keep the provincial championships, just run them earlier?
I could be wrong, but I guess what he is proposing:
Group A:
Limerick
Cork
Kilkenny
Dublin
Westmeath
Group B:
Clare
Tipperary
Waterford
Galway
Wexford
Laois
I don't know but that is my guess.
In true GAA style, if something a la this happened they would need 7 teams, lest Wexford/Waterford/Dublin have a bad year and end up relegated.
I wouldn't see it getting out of the blocks and the traditionalists would have a weakness." I agree. That type of set up doesnt excite or appeal to me.
tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 4119 - 18/05/2022 13:10:25
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The current system is best they've had in fairness.
If provincials become even more secondary then maybe keep the formula but have mixed groups?
Maybe even have a relegation from both without the need for a play off? Would keep things more fluid and mean that every game is important. Would also give a fairer shot to the McDonagh teams who might have the chance to survive their first year.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 2565 - 18/05/2022 13:33:09
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Replying To tiobraid: "I agree. That type of set up doesnt excite or appeal to me." Why not, you'd still have the provincials but play a wider range of teams then in the All Ireland.
Tipp v Galway or Kilkenny in a group stage every 2nd year would be big fixtures surely.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 18/05/2022 13:45:53
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Replying To StoreysTash: "I don't know if it would work, but should provincial championships be knock out and then have 2 x groups of 6 for the All-Ireland series? Get rid of Walsh/Waterford Crystal Cup.
Reduce the league groups to 4 teams (i.e. 3 games, warm up tournament it is), then up to 3 in provincial championship.
Then, 2 x groups of 6 teams. 5 games for everybody. How the groups could work, etc is another days work.
There are 24 weeks from 1st round of the league to All Ireland final this year, the above should easily be possible. Given there are 11 games to the end of the round robin.
Gives everybody a fair crack at qualifying. Wexford or Dublin will qualify for AI series this year and neither deserve it.
I won't be here for the follow-up discussion but starting a discussion, if the train wifi allows." I think this new system is badly flawed. Having two teams equal on points but deciding which one is out based on possible a one point scoring difference or the head to head. What happens if the are equal on scoring difference and draw also like Clare and Limerick ? Does the away team get the decision to advance ? Anyway a horrible was to decide any team's season. At least give them the chance to play a mid week play off game.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2660 - 18/05/2022 13:55:19
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Replying To tiobraid: "I agree. That type of set up doesnt excite or appeal to me." Even if Tipp don't make the knock-out stages in the next few years while Wexford/Dublin continue to on the easier side of the house?
The other point is, the top counties like it or not have shut up shop and the likes of Offaly can never develop into a top team if the only solution is a yo-yo effect while the top 9-10 counties insulate themselves against any relegation.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 18/05/2022 14:33:11
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Even if Tipp don't make the knock-out stages in the next few years while Wexford/Dublin continue to on the easier side of the house?
The other point is, the top counties like it or not have shut up shop and the likes of Offaly can never develop into a top team if the only solution is a yo-yo effect while the top 9-10 counties insulate themselves against any relegation." It's a hard no from me.
Might be good for us in the long run but I'll take it the way it is.
There's a chance we get through Saturday.
We don't deserve it, but if it kick starts a revival I'm happy to have that chance
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2672 - 18/05/2022 14:54:03
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Money will be a big influence. For the crowds the Munster Championship is attracting, county boards and the provincial council will be reluctant to change, no matter how harsh it might appear on the 4th and 5th Munster teams.
The only change I suggest is that the province with the 6th team be determined by the McDonagh winner. The 6th placed team in the 6 team provincial championship will always be relegated. The McDonagh winner then is always promoted to be the 6th team in their provincial championship.
If Antrim and Offaly are able to close the gap to the top 9 and bring in crowds, the Leinster format could be reconsidered for 8 teams. Not a possibility at the moment however.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7853 - 18/05/2022 18:38:39
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Replying To Doylerwex: "It's a hard no from me.
Might be good for us in the long run but I'll take it the way it is.
There's a chance we get through Saturday.
We don't deserve it, but if it kick starts a revival I'm happy to have that chance" Why don't we deserve it? We've only lost 1 Championship game out of 4 and that by 1 lousy point. Despite playing pretty poorly for large stretches of the championship so far. It's knockout now. Bring it on I can't wait!
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11877 - 18/05/2022 21:58:14
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Replying To legendzxix: "Money will be a big influence. For the crowds the Munster Championship is attracting, county boards and the provincial council will be reluctant to change, no matter how harsh it might appear on the 4th and 5th Munster teams.
The only change I suggest is that the province with the 6th team be determined by the McDonagh winner. The 6th placed team in the 6 team provincial championship will always be relegated. The McDonagh winner then is always promoted to be the 6th team in their provincial championship.
If Antrim and Offaly are able to close the gap to the top 9 and bring in crowds, the Leinster format could be reconsidered for 8 teams. Not a possibility at the moment however." Surely you don't expect the Leinster counties to just take every reject from everywhere else? No offence but talk of an 8 team Leinster championship to protect the Munster championship is nonsense.
Something is going to have to give with the top counties if hurling is ever to spread beyond the few. And that'll never happen if we just have yo-yo teams with Laois, Offaly and Antrim are.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 19/05/2022 15:32:55
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I feel something like this should be starting this weekend. I am disappointed we are out before the end of May, and the GAA have missed out on its best time for promotion.
It seems wrong that having 10 competitive hurling matches between league and championship in the first 5 months of the year does nothing for player welfare. Hurling is and always will be easier on a dry pitch.
In addition, the current format does nothing for Laois or whoever wins the Joe McDonagh cup. Unless they can take a scalp against one of the big boys and relegate somebody, they are only expected to make up the numbers.
What do hurling people want? Do they want the same counties to win All-Irelands for the next 50 years, or do they want Offaly, Laois, Westmeath, Antrim, Kildare, etc to continue to promote the game?
There is way too much "I'm alright jack" in the GAA - particularly from top counties in both hurling and football. The GAA will never be a level playing field but what hurling currently has is a pack of top counties literally pooing on those who are trying to progress the game and to say they are pushing against the tide would be an understatement.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1128 - 23/05/2022 09:09:22
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "I feel something like this should be starting this weekend. I am disappointed we are out before the end of May, and the GAA have missed out on its best time for promotion.
It seems wrong that having 10 competitive hurling matches between league and championship in the first 5 months of the year does nothing for player welfare. Hurling is and always will be easier on a dry pitch.
In addition, the current format does nothing for Laois or whoever wins the Joe McDonagh cup. Unless they can take a scalp against one of the big boys and relegate somebody, they are only expected to make up the numbers.
What do hurling people want? Do they want the same counties to win All-Irelands for the next 50 years, or do they want Offaly, Laois, Westmeath, Antrim, Kildare, etc to continue to promote the game?
There is way too much "I'm alright jack" in the GAA - particularly from top counties in both hurling and football. The GAA will never be a level playing field but what hurling currently has is a pack of top counties literally pooing on those who are trying to progress the game and to say they are pushing against the tide would be an understatement." Nail on head. Instead of teams being out in May, they should be starting in May.
There is still 8-9 weeks to the All-Ireland final and we have 7 matches to be played in those weeks.
I have been banging the drum of the club player since day 1 on this board but if counties aren't starting their comps till August-September, what is the point?
I know 2-3 lads on the Laois team, they were very disappointed with how the year went but above all, they don't feel like they will ever make progress in the current system. They feel like the only reason they are in the Leinster championship is to be a buffer for the bigger counties.
I think the entire championship structure needs a massive rethink, and not just the top counties suiting themselves. With a view to promoting the game and every top county has a part to play in that.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1733 - 23/05/2022 15:35:29
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Nail on head. Instead of teams being out in May, they should be starting in May.
There is still 8-9 weeks to the All-Ireland final and we have 7 matches to be played in those weeks.
I have been banging the drum of the club player since day 1 on this board but if counties aren't starting their comps till August-September, what is the point?
I know 2-3 lads on the Laois team, they were very disappointed with how the year went but above all, they don't feel like they will ever make progress in the current system. They feel like the only reason they are in the Leinster championship is to be a buffer for the bigger counties.
I think the entire championship structure needs a massive rethink, and not just the top counties suiting themselves. With a view to promoting the game and every top county has a part to play in that." The whole point to the restructure is that club championships should be starting in July.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11877 - 23/05/2022 16:25:04
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