|
Replying To oneoff: "Then why won't you tell us why you wanted to know why New York don't play in the league? You've been asked numerous times now but keep ignoring it and changing the subject?" Are you ok? Every reply I see from you is being antagonistic with a bit of an anger undercurrent. Take a break if you need. You don't need to reply to everything and demand replies or info from others
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2382 - 19/05/2022 13:50:30
2418707
Link
2
|
|
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Are you ok? Every reply I see from you is being antagonistic with a bit of an anger undercurrent. Take a break if you need. You don't need to reply to everything and demand replies or info from others" I asked a simple question that's all. You don't have to reply to everyone either but that doesn't stop you now does it?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 19/05/2022 14:31:41
2418719
Link
0
|
|
Leitrim won the All Ireland B Championship in 1990. A short few years later in 1994 they won the Connacht final for the first time since 1927.
Clare won the All Ireland B Championship in 1991. The following year they beat Kerry and won the Munster final for the first time since 1917.
Having underage structures in place is the bedrock for success, no question. But winning titles and learning to win is also critical. The All Ireland B Championship of the past started out great by providing credible silverware to be won by up and coming counties on their path to higher things. I recall being at the final and replay against Fermanagh in the All Ireland B Final in 1996 which my own county would have regarded as a very big deal, had we won it (we didn't). The competition was not properly invested in and it was eventually replaced. Tailteann Cup can be for many counties that same crucial stepping stone (with silverware, which is critical) that All Ireland B was for Leitrim and Clare in the early 90's.
The Tailteann Cup can be a big success from 2023. Lessons need to be learned from this years blunders, but it is still significantly favourable versus throwing weaker counties up against the big guys to become canon fodder year after year in the hope that some day maybe some of them might get a win (The historical data is in, and that idea is garbage). Getting beaten by a cricket score doesn't build success or seed any learnable lessons, it destroys morale, and some of the hammerings undo years of underage work. So I am all in with the Tailteann Cup and lets get on with it.
LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 471 - 19/05/2022 14:49:29
2418727
Link
1
|
|
Replying To oneoff: "I asked a simple question that's all. You don't have to reply to everyone either but that doesn't stop you now does it?" I don't though, and not snottily either unlike you
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2382 - 19/05/2022 14:54:08
2418729
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Are you ok? Every reply I see from you is being antagonistic with a bit of an anger undercurrent. Take a break if you need. You don't need to reply to everything and demand replies or info from others" He seems to butt into everyone's conversations. Obviously doesn't like being left out. I was actually talking to someone else on this subject and he butt in demanding answers. Comical really then that he gets hot when people won't answer to him
howdareu (USA) - Posts: 220 - 19/05/2022 14:56:31
2418730
Link
1
|
|
Replying To LongfordgaaAbú: "Leitrim won the All Ireland B Championship in 1990. A short few years later in 1994 they won the Connacht final for the first time since 1927.
Clare won the All Ireland B Championship in 1991. The following year they beat Kerry and won the Munster final for the first time since 1917.
Having underage structures in place is the bedrock for success, no question. But winning titles and learning to win is also critical. The All Ireland B Championship of the past started out great by providing credible silverware to be won by up and coming counties on their path to higher things. I recall being at the final and replay against Fermanagh in the All Ireland B Final in 1996 which my own county would have regarded as a very big deal, had we won it (we didn't). The competition was not properly invested in and it was eventually replaced. Tailteann Cup can be for many counties that same crucial stepping stone (with silverware, which is critical) that All Ireland B was for Leitrim and Clare in the early 90's.
The Tailteann Cup can be a big success from 2023. Lessons need to be learned from this years blunders, but it is still significantly favourable versus throwing weaker counties up against the big guys to become canon fodder year after year in the hope that some day maybe some of them might get a win (The historical data is in, and that idea is garbage). Getting beaten by a cricket score doesn't build success or seed any learnable lessons, it destroys morale, and some of the hammerings undo years of underage work. So I am all in with the Tailteann Cup and lets get on with it." Indeed. And didn't Leitrim win U21 in 91 too? Clare too had numerous U21 sides that reached Munster finals, 3 in the 7 years before 1992. The B Championship undoubtedly helped to a point, but on teh backbone of what was there already. You can't polish what isn't there. And further to that, none of it was sustained. So you need it constantly feeding in from youth to help there. Not just setting up a 2nd tier, but not fully realising it by supporting it properly from under it with youth sides. And anther point, the move to U17 and U20 has not helped things either
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2382 - 19/05/2022 15:01:01
2418733
Link
0
|
|
Replying To LongfordgaaAbú: "Leitrim won the All Ireland B Championship in 1990. A short few years later in 1994 they won the Connacht final for the first time since 1927.
Clare won the All Ireland B Championship in 1991. The following year they beat Kerry and won the Munster final for the first time since 1917.
Having underage structures in place is the bedrock for success, no question. But winning titles and learning to win is also critical. The All Ireland B Championship of the past started out great by providing credible silverware to be won by up and coming counties on their path to higher things. I recall being at the final and replay against Fermanagh in the All Ireland B Final in 1996 which my own county would have regarded as a very big deal, had we won it (we didn't). The competition was not properly invested in and it was eventually replaced. Tailteann Cup can be for many counties that same crucial stepping stone (with silverware, which is critical) that All Ireland B was for Leitrim and Clare in the early 90's.
The Tailteann Cup can be a big success from 2023. Lessons need to be learned from this years blunders, but it is still significantly favourable versus throwing weaker counties up against the big guys to become canon fodder year after year in the hope that some day maybe some of them might get a win (The historical data is in, and that idea is garbage). Getting beaten by a cricket score doesn't build success or seed any learnable lessons, it destroys morale, and some of the hammerings undo years of underage work. So I am all in with the Tailteann Cup and lets get on with it." Your point about Leitrim and Clare in the 90s, they won the provincial titles because they had very good teams, possibly once in a generation teams. Winning the b championship had nothing to do with it.
weatherfieldgael (UK) - Posts: 60 - 19/05/2022 15:43:31
2418751
Link
1
|
|
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "I don't though, and not snottily either unlike you" But you do. Then you accuse anyone who has a different view to you of having an "agenda"
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 19/05/2022 16:02:59
2418755
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "Indeed. And didn't Leitrim win U21 in 91 too? Clare too had numerous U21 sides that reached Munster finals, 3 in the 7 years before 1992. The B Championship undoubtedly helped to a point, but on teh backbone of what was there already. You can't polish what isn't there. And further to that, none of it was sustained. So you need it constantly feeding in from youth to help there. Not just setting up a 2nd tier, but not fully realising it by supporting it properly from under it with youth sides. And anther point, the move to U17 and U20 has not helped things either" So what was Wicklows championship runs in 2008/09 baced on? Or Antrim getting the the 09 Ulster final?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 19/05/2022 16:04:42
2418756
Link
0
|
|
Replying To howdareu: "He seems to butt into everyone's conversations. Obviously doesn't like being left out. I was actually talking to someone else on this subject and he butt in demanding answers. Comical really then that he gets hot when people won't answer to him" If you can't answer the question there's no need to get upset about it...
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 19/05/2022 16:05:31
2418757
Link
1
|
|
Replying To oneoff: "If you can't answer the question there's no need to get upset about it..." Oh I'm not a bit upset. You seem to be the one who is upset that people won't do as you want.
howdareu (USA) - Posts: 220 - 19/05/2022 16:46:29
2418770
Link
0
|
|
Replying To oneoff: "So what was Wicklows championship runs in 2008/09 baced on? Or Antrim getting the the 09 Ulster final?" Fairly obvious that they had good teams. Not too difficult to comprehend for most posters here
howdareu (USA) - Posts: 220 - 19/05/2022 16:48:10
2418771
Link
0
|
|
Replying To howdareu: "Fairly obvious that they had good teams. Not too difficult to comprehend for most posters here" Sorry I wasn't talking to you
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 19/05/2022 17:01:21
2418775
Link
0
|
|
Replying To weatherfieldgael: "Your point about Leitrim and Clare in the 90s, they won the provincial titles because they had very good teams, possibly once in a generation teams. Winning the b championship had nothing to do with it." Winning B championship showed they had potential. Having John O'Mahony and John Maughan as coaches helped too. O'Mahony has nearly always been a good coach and Maughan's discipline and fitness regime can go down well at times with some teams, if he's not calling the sir supporters 'customers'! One very likeable Mayo man, the other not so much.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7342 - 19/05/2022 17:05:11
2418777
Link
5
|
|
Replying To weatherfieldgael: "Your point about Leitrim and Clare in the 90s, they won the provincial titles because they had very good teams, possibly once in a generation teams. Winning the b championship had nothing to do with it." Winning the All-Ireland B was of course important to the progress of Clare and Leitrim. Positive momentum. Taking off like a meteorite!
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7838 - 19/05/2022 17:25:31
2418783
Link
1
|
|
For those interested, here are the winners of the All Ireland Senior B Championship which ran from 1990 to 2000:
1990: Leitrim (beat Sligo)
1991: Clare (beat Longford)
1992: Wicklow (beat Antrim)
1993: Laois (beat Sligo)
1994: Carlow (beat Westmeath)
1995: Tipperary (beat Longford)
1996: Fermanagh (beat Longford)
1997: Louth (beat Clare)
1998: Monaghan (beat Fermanagh)
1999: Antrim (beat Fermanagh)
2000: Fermanagh (beat Wicklow)
That All-Ireland B title was a massive deal for Leitrim in 1990 (bonfires lit, massive reception for the team). Same for Clare in 1991. Same with many others on that list. Remember that many of the tier 2 county players are playing the game to have memorable days and win silverware. Life in Gaelic Football is not necessarily all about Sam Maguire or bust. Your average Longford footballer doesn't think for a second about winning the Leinster title - that notion has long been expunged by years of hammerings and only 2 semi-finals since 1970. They think about how to maximise their capacity and have memorable results and silverware. Call that low expectations if you want, but we are a county of limited resources like many listed above. A second tier competition of course has a crucial progression element and the winner goes on to the first tier and hopes to build and push on, but it also has its own intrinsic value too. Winning it matters for its own sake too. Ask many of those winners above at the time. That competition was replaced in 2001 but there are important lessons to take from it which those of us with long enough memories to remember the great moments in it, and coming from counties that didn't win a damn thing otherwise, would like to underpin.
LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 471 - 19/05/2022 17:28:27
2418784
Link
2
|
|
Replying To oneoff: "But you do. Then you accuse anyone who has a different view to you of having an "agenda"" When have I ever said that?
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2382 - 19/05/2022 17:30:05
2418786
Link
0
|
|
Replying To oneoff: "So what was Wicklows championship runs in 2008/09 baced on? Or Antrim getting the the 09 Ulster final?" I did say there would be exceptions. But I really don't think these are exceptions either. Reaching a final or a run through the backdoor is hardly indicative of that.
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2382 - 19/05/2022 17:31:19
2418788
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Loughduff Lad: "When have I ever said that?" You've accused legendzxix plenty of times. Or are you denying that?
oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 19/05/2022 18:25:36
2418801
Link
0
|
|
Replying To LongfordgaaAbú: "For those interested, here are the winners of the All Ireland Senior B Championship which ran from 1990 to 2000:
1990: Leitrim (beat Sligo)
1991: Clare (beat Longford)
1992: Wicklow (beat Antrim)
1993: Laois (beat Sligo)
1994: Carlow (beat Westmeath)
1995: Tipperary (beat Longford)
1996: Fermanagh (beat Longford)
1997: Louth (beat Clare)
1998: Monaghan (beat Fermanagh)
1999: Antrim (beat Fermanagh)
2000: Fermanagh (beat Wicklow)
That All-Ireland B title was a massive deal for Leitrim in 1990 (bonfires lit, massive reception for the team). Same for Clare in 1991. Same with many others on that list. Remember that many of the tier 2 county players are playing the game to have memorable days and win silverware. Life in Gaelic Football is not necessarily all about Sam Maguire or bust. Your average Longford footballer doesn't think for a second about winning the Leinster title - that notion has long been expunged by years of hammerings and only 2 semi-finals since 1970. They think about how to maximise their capacity and have memorable results and silverware. Call that low expectations if you want, but we are a county of limited resources like many listed above. A second tier competition of course has a crucial progression element and the winner goes on to the first tier and hopes to build and push on, but it also has its own intrinsic value too. Winning it matters for its own sake too. Ask many of those winners above at the time. That competition was replaced in 2001 but there are important lessons to take from it which those of us with long enough memories to remember the great moments in it, and coming from counties that didn't win a damn thing otherwise, would like to underpin." Great post. The GPA are on board for many of the reasons mentioned. Longford and Fermanagh is a tough opening game. The winner will most likely be in Croke Park for the semi-finals.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7838 - 19/05/2022 19:26:15
2418809
Link
0
|