National Forum

Tailteann Cup 2022

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "In Bronze Age Ireland, large sporting gatherings known as funeral games were held. These were athletic competitions held to honour a recently deceased person. The name Tailteann derives from the Aonach Tailteann (the Tailtin Fair) held in the townload of Teltown between Navan and Kells. According to the Annals of the Kingdom of Ireland, the fair was established by the legendary king Lugh Lámhfhada (reigned 1849 to 1809 BC) in honour of his foster-mother, Tailtiu.

The Tailteann Games were re-established just after independence as a sport championships for Irish people or those with Irish ancestry. They were held across Ireland in 1924, 1928 and 1932. Launched to celebrate independence, the Games were first announced in 1921 but due to the Civil War the Games were postponed until August of 1924.

In 1924 and 1928, the Tailteann Games were held shortly after the Summer Olympics, allowing athletes that had participated in Paris (1924) and Amsterdam (1928) to compete. Additionally, some Olympic athletes who were not of Irish ancestry were invited to compete to increase the competition and attract audiences. The Tailteann Games were held in various venues across Ireland, centred in Croke Park. Events were held in athletics swimming and other aquatic sports, rowing, boxing, rounders, yachting, golf, tennis, gymnastics, wrestling, weight-lifting, billiards, chess, Gaelic football, hurling, handball and camogie. There were events beyond sport too, with Irish dancing, music, painting, crafts, writing and storytelling competitions.

In the 1930s there was less will to continue with the Tailteann Games. In 1937, a committee was formed to explore the possibility of holding further games, but with the beginning of World War II, the games never took place again. The name 'Tailteann' reappears in the early 1980's as the name for the All Ireland Juvenile Hurling 'C' Championship competition (Millwood Tailteann Cup) for a few years.

So to cut a long story short, the cup is named after ancient games."
It would be great if the Gaa used some imagination
Make a day of The Tailteann games
Like a 100 meter or mile race race for players

rhudson (Galway) - Posts: 1478 - 13/05/2022 12:58:47    2416861

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The root cause of the mess is trying to keep the Provincials linked to the All Ireland.

I don't know what can be done about that.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 13/05/2022 13:02:33    2416864

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The root cause of the mess is trying to keep the Provincials linked to the All Ireland.

I don't know what can be done about that."
Time. We have to sit it out until the old guard who are protecting those provincials move aside so that a new generation can get rid of them and push on with the rest of the change. If last January's Green proposals had mandated getting rid of the provincials, it wouldn't have got thru. So this is step 1. Getting rid of provincials is the unspoken step 2. Eventually the Leinster Championship for example will simply replace the O'Byrne Cup as a pre-season tournament and so on.

LongfordgaaAbú (Longford) - Posts: 471 - 13/05/2022 13:37:33    2416873

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Time. We have to sit it out until the old guard who are protecting those provincials move aside so that a new generation can get rid of them and push on with the rest of the change. If last January's Green proposals had mandated getting rid of the provincials, it wouldn't have got thru. So this is step 1. Getting rid of provincials is the unspoken step 2. Eventually the Leinster Championship for example will simply replace the O'Byrne Cup as a pre-season tournament and so on."
I think the thing is that something like the provincials plus qualifiers played in late Feb, March, April could be a decent warm up tournament for teams.

Call it the New Ireland Cup and being able to get provincial glory and games against new opponents in the qualifiers could be good development ahead of a tiered more league based championship of 2 tiers of 2 groups of 8.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 13/05/2022 14:15:38    2416879

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Time. We have to sit it out until the old guard who are protecting those provincials move aside so that a new generation can get rid of them and push on with the rest of the change. If last January's Green proposals had mandated getting rid of the provincials, it wouldn't have got thru. So this is step 1. Getting rid of provincials is the unspoken step 2. Eventually the Leinster Championship for example will simply replace the O'Byrne Cup as a pre-season tournament and so on."
Not sure time will resolve it. the new generation pushing for position within Provincial Councils will protect their Championship in the same manner as this generation, simply to retain a significant amount of power.

The footballers are not anywhere close to a priority when considering change in the GAA.

What actually needs to happen is that Counties pull from the Provincial Championship.

Ban (Westmeath) - Posts: 1415 - 13/05/2022 14:30:47    2416882

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Replying To oneoff:  "What is this obsession with the name? No matter what it's called you and others will find something wrong with it."
I'd don't really have much issue with the name, just pointing out the facts of it's origin. It was the name of an Athletics tournament. Doesn't really bother me either way, it's the set-up of it I'd have more issue with

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 13/05/2022 14:37:07    2416885

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Replying To Whammo86:  "There isn't actually much uniformity in Championship qualifying criteria across the land.

Meath league and championship are separated.

Many Ulster counties they are not though and division 1 teams play senior championship. It's quite common for Promotion to go to the Intermediate champions plus Division 2 champions (or 2nd place if the league winners also won the championship)."
Do you have to in some other counties? Happy to be proved wrong if so. My own club is Division 2, but is a Senior club. We were a Senior club for 40 years, got relegated, won intermediate first time, and have been senior again for what will be 4 seasons now. In Cavan you go up or down purely on Championship win or relegation playoff. Not League. We've also junior teams in Division 2 too. So quite the mix on abilities there.

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 13/05/2022 14:39:58    2416886

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Replying To LongfordgaaAbú:  "Time. We have to sit it out until the old guard who are protecting those provincials move aside so that a new generation can get rid of them and push on with the rest of the change. If last January's Green proposals had mandated getting rid of the provincials, it wouldn't have got thru. So this is step 1. Getting rid of provincials is the unspoken step 2. Eventually the Leinster Championship for example will simply replace the O'Byrne Cup as a pre-season tournament and so on."
I'm not so sure about that. You've a competitive Connacht and Ulster, and minus Dublin Leinster looks competitive enough most of the time. When Dublin comes back into the pack there (it'll happen eventually) you'll find you'll have 3 relatively competitive provinces, on which a lot of rivalry is based. Munster has always been an outlier bar Tipp 2020 and Clare 1992. Can't see them going. Needs incorporation somehow into a new system, but can't be losing them. I feel you won't realise what you've lost until you get rid of it. Ulster Championship is different level here. Easy talk to say about getting rid of them, but not as simple as that. it's not just old guard holding onto it

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 13/05/2022 14:59:11    2416889

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "Do you have to in some other counties? Happy to be proved wrong if so. My own club is Division 2, but is a Senior club. We were a Senior club for 40 years, got relegated, won intermediate first time, and have been senior again for what will be 4 seasons now. In Cavan you go up or down purely on Championship win or relegation playoff. Not League. We've also junior teams in Division 2 too. So quite the mix on abilities there."
Very few Counties link Leagues and Championships.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1419 - 13/05/2022 15:20:38    2416895

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Very few Counties link Leagues and Championships."
Antrim, Tyrone, Monaghan, Derry all do in varying methods.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 13/05/2022 16:01:41    2416900

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Very few Counties link Leagues and Championships."
Armagh also. So 5 of the 9 Ulster counties.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4226 - 13/05/2022 16:06:35    2416901

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Very few Counties link Leagues and Championships."
As far as I know , no county links them. It was a directive from HQ a few years back.

anotheralias (Galway) - Posts: 840 - 13/05/2022 16:10:25    2416902

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Replying To Loughduff Lad:  "In Round 1, prior meetings are kept apart I think (open to correction though), then it's an open draw. If there is to be a preliminary round, teams who reached a provincial semi final will not be drawn in that either. They will go to Round 1, and await any preliminary winners to join in then."
That sounds good for Cavan, avoiding Antrim. Cavan could probably handle most counties in it, to date. It's just that rematches often go the opposite way. I'm sure Cavan would lick their lips at another shot at Donegal!

foreveryoung (USA) - Posts: 1911 - 13/05/2022 16:30:50    2416908

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Very few Counties link Leagues and Championships."
I would have thought so alright. Which makes it all the more weirder that the GAA have done so to our jewel in the crown tournament

Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2383 - 13/05/2022 16:54:28    2416910

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Replying To Whammo86:  "The root cause of the mess is trying to keep the Provincials linked to the All Ireland.

I don't know what can be done about that."
Damn right. Provincials are the problem. If you are keeping them and the league I'd go 4 provincial winners and top 8 in the league. Don't need 16 in the Sam Maguire as 16 teams can't win it.

Preferably I'd split league from championship. Senior, intermediate, junior. 12, 16, 10. If it works for club's all over Ireland it should work for counties too.

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 248 - 13/05/2022 17:11:50    2416913

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Seen a lot of talk about the north being strong but surely tipp, westmeath and Offaly are as strong as Cavan, Antrim and Down? They be the 6 favourites.

Offaly beat Down in Newry, Westmeath won in Belfast and Tipp won In Cavan in the league. That would suggest the south is stronger. The north is just more even.

Longford, Leitrim, Sligo, Fermanagh and London are hardly any different than Wexford, Waterford, Carlow, Laois and Wicklow

skirge7 (UK) - Posts: 248 - 13/05/2022 17:24:13    2416914

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New structure is a waste of time so now 4 teams have a chance of winning the senior championship ( in reality only two dubs and kerry). There are probably 6 teams with a chance of winning the tailteann cup and in a normal year no team from division 4 will have any hope of winning it.
I cant understand how teams with the the current level of committment needed are prepared to train so hard for something they have no chance of ever winning it makes no sense at all.
We need a Senior Intermediate and junior championship it aint rocket science.
Would anyone get up every morning and work every week if we only had a 10 percent chance of getting paid. I cant understand what keeps them at it

breffnibluewhite (Cavan) - Posts: 454 - 13/05/2022 18:14:33    2416923

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Absolute mess from day one. Thanks GAA, can always be counted on to mess something up.

And all this is after feck all of it will be shown on television. Absolutely clueless and it won't last a crack.

FrankieJoe (Wicklow) - Posts: 71 - 13/05/2022 21:27:32    2416933

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Replying To FrankieJoe:  "Absolute mess from day one. Thanks GAA, can always be counted on to mess something up.

And all this is after feck all of it will be shown on television. Absolutely clueless and it won't last a crack."
Feck all people would watch it

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 14/05/2022 08:27:19    2416936

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Replying To skirge7:  "Damn right. Provincials are the problem. If you are keeping them and the league I'd go 4 provincial winners and top 8 in the league. Don't need 16 in the Sam Maguire as 16 teams can't win it.

Preferably I'd split league from championship. Senior, intermediate, junior. 12, 16, 10. If it works for club's all over Ireland it should work for counties too."
The provincial councils and the county boards have a big say in the championship format. County boards of Division 3 and 4 counties want the Tailteann Cup to start as soon as possible after provincial knockout. There is a financial cost to keeping teams on the road. Financial reasons are influencing the North-South Tailteann split.
By allowing provincial finalists as qualifier method, the Tailteann Cup can start as soon as the provincial final pairings are confirmed. This reduces the gap from provincial knockout to Tailteann as much as possible.
The Tailteann starting early is why the final is earlier than the All-Ireland final. Preceding an All-Ireland semi-final also ensures that more supporters of the Tailteann finalists can attend the final.
People need to be realistic in their proposals, while rightly seeking improvements.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 7846 - 14/05/2022 09:28:04    2416941

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