National Forum

Transfer System

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I'd agree that improved coaching in so called weaker counties is important and playing cross county games in kilkenny has definitely been a great help to carlow clubs. Imo the biggest problem for carlow is lack of clubs. For a small county we have large areas with no hurling. I noticed tullow aren't playing underage anymore which I can't understand given the size of the town. I think a transfer system would not solve much but somehow getting non traditional areas to embrace the game would be more beneficial although very difficult.

Unusedsub (Carlow) - Posts: 78 - 20/04/2022 16:29:56    2411886

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Replying To TaosHum:  "I'd be in favour of something like this, but not a full transfer system which allows players move with little restrictions. What I think would work best would be... (using Carlow and Kilkenny as example):

- Players from neighbouring division 1 counties, who plays with a club within a 15km radius of the neighbouring boarder, are eligible to with a division 2 or below county. The reason for the 15km radius is that there would be at least some a higher possibility of connection to the county they are joining, (ie family, work, school, etc). Players from clubs like Graiguenamanagh,, Gowran (Young irelands), Blacks and Whits (Skeogh) would be switch to Carlow

- 3 Year Rule: A player must wait 3 years since they played intercounty hurling for a Div 1 side before declaring to play for a Div 2 or below side. Also, same rule applies if they wish to revert and play with Div 1 team again. This stops constant switching back and forth and requires players to make a serious commitment. So if a player from Gowran wants to play for Carlow, he must wait 3 years if they played hurling for KK at any level, Likewise, if they wish to return to playing for KK, they must wait 3 years since playing for Carlow.

- Age restrictions: Players eligible to switch counties must be over the age of 23. Larger counties need to be protected also, so that if a weaker county comes into money, they are not in danger of losing promising young talent.

- Designated Counties: The established top 9 teams in the country in hurling are only the ones that are impacted by this. Teams like Laois, Antrim, Westmeath, etc, who yoyo between Div1 and 2 shouldn't be impacted. This can be reviewed3-5 years.

- Player Limits: Counties can only have 5 Div 1 declared players on the panel at any given time. This is to ensure rule is not abused and there is still large majority of locally based players on the panel at any given time.

Obviously, this is just a rough idea, but for counties trying hard with small playing pools this would make a real difference. This would also give good club players with ambition to play intercounty hurling an opportunity to do."
They are all good ideas. The poster I was replying to was proposing , using your county examples, that Kavanagh and Nolan for talks sake should be able to play for Kilkenny in order to win medals.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11831 - 20/04/2022 19:22:16    2411927

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Replying To Viking66:  "And what effect would transfers have on the morale of the group who likely played with each other since underage development squads?"
Probably not much different from the effect it would have if someone moved there from another county, slightly better but not much.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 20/04/2022 19:55:34    2411935

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Replying To Viking66:  "They are all good ideas. The poster I was replying to was proposing , using your county examples, that Kavanagh and Nolan for talks sake should be able to play for Kilkenny in order to win medals."
Yes they should, in my opinion, talent, and not geography, should dictate sporting success.
Also, it works both ways, players perhaps not getting a look in in kilkenny could transfer to carlow for example, and might help to improve them.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 20/04/2022 21:30:04    2411956

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Replying To Viking66:  "They are all good ideas. The poster I was replying to was proposing , using your county examples, that Kavanagh and Nolan for talks sake should be able to play for Kilkenny in order to win medals."
No, only players from the "designated" top 9 counties (5 Munster, kK, Galway, Dublin & Welford) can move to a non designated county, provided they are within 15km of the boarder and over 23.

Aim is to help smaller counties strengthen their panels and improve overall standard. All McDonagh , Ring & Rackard counties have fine hurlers, strength in depth is where they really suffer. This can lead to success and further growth of the game within these "smaller" counties. Also provides good players within strong counties a chance of playing intercounty hurling, which they may never get to do otherise.

TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 236 - 21/04/2022 07:16:40    2411969

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Replying To Viking66:  "They are all good ideas. The poster I was replying to was proposing , using your county examples, that Kavanagh and Nolan for talks sake should be able to play for Kilkenny in order to win medals."
The inspiration for young Carlow hurlers is watching Marty and Chris play for Carlow. The only way to improve standards in a county is through better coaching not a transfer system that would lower the standards in most counties.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1517 - 21/04/2022 09:05:40    2411979

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If you are going to have teams made up of mostly lads outside the county then it should not be called roscommon, dublin etc.

The only time it should be permitted is if the player has moved to the county and transferred clubs

Tarismelting22 (Roscommon) - Posts: 760 - 21/04/2022 09:12:45    2411981

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Replying To carlovia:  "The inspiration for young Carlow hurlers is watching Marty and Chris play for Carlow. The only way to improve standards in a county is through better coaching not a transfer system that would lower the standards in most counties."
Exactly my point Carlovia

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11831 - 21/04/2022 09:32:37    2411987

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Replying To carlovia:  "The inspiration for young Carlow hurlers is watching Marty and Chris play for Carlow. The only way to improve standards in a county is through better coaching not a transfer system that would lower the standards in most counties."
An issue I've always had when it comes to hurling is outside managers who are only interested in short term success and will bring in as many outside lads as possible. Kerry have long been a prime example of it and are still doing it.

The otherside of the coin is getting lads to commit to the likes of Kerry, Kildare etc Joe Quade a few years ago said he made contact with 40 odd lads at the start of the season and almost half weren't willing to commit so he had to bring in outside players.

oneoff (UK) - Posts: 1380 - 21/04/2022 10:07:19    2412002

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You often find within a few miles of the border is where the most trenchant distaste for the neighbouring county exists.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 21/04/2022 10:41:00    2412017

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Replying To carlovia:  "The inspiration for young Carlow hurlers is watching Marty and Chris play for Carlow. The only way to improve standards in a county is through better coaching not a transfer system that would lower the standards in most counties."
Who says you can't have both?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 21/04/2022 12:09:32    2412056

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Replying To carlovia:  "The inspiration for young Carlow hurlers is watching Marty and Chris play for Carlow. The only way to improve standards in a county is through better coaching not a transfer system that would lower the standards in most counties."
How would a transfer system lower standards?

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 21/04/2022 12:24:30    2412061

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Replying To Galway9801:  "Who says you can't have both?"
How would Nolan and Kavanagh playing for Kilkenny benefit Carlow? If they wanted to and if Kilkenny wanted them? This is all nonsense.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11831 - 21/04/2022 13:04:57    2412078

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Replying To Viking66:  "How would Nolan and Kavanagh playing for Kilkenny benefit Carlow? If they wanted to and if Kilkenny wanted them? This is all nonsense."
READ CAREFULLY PLEASE.
I've explained it several times but sure look it I'll try once more.
Allowing players from carlow etc the chance to win an all Ireland, VIA A TRANSFER SYSTEM, would, in my opinion, benefit hurling in carlow long term, as it could help motivate more kids in carlow to commit to the game, and hopefully increase playing numbers.
Also, a transfer system works BOTH WAYS. I have no doubt that there are squad players in kilkenny who if given the chance to play for Carlow, would improve the team.
Just like there are any number of very talented hurlers in the country who will never achieve anything in the game because of geography, there are also many fantastic hurlers in the country who'll never get the chance to play inter County because they're born in kilkenny /tipperary /galway.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 21/04/2022 14:13:33    2412094

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Replying To Galway9801:  "READ CAREFULLY PLEASE.
I've explained it several times but sure look it I'll try once more.
Allowing players from carlow etc the chance to win an all Ireland, VIA A TRANSFER SYSTEM, would, in my opinion, benefit hurling in carlow long term, as it could help motivate more kids in carlow to commit to the game, and hopefully increase playing numbers.
Also, a transfer system works BOTH WAYS. I have no doubt that there are squad players in kilkenny who if given the chance to play for Carlow, would improve the team.
Just like there are any number of very talented hurlers in the country who will never achieve anything in the game because of geography, there are also many fantastic hurlers in the country who'll never get the chance to play inter County because they're born in kilkenny /tipperary /galway."
I really don't think any Carlow lads winning an all Ireland playing for Kilkenny are going to encourage kids in Carlow to take up hurling. I wouldn't say too many hurlers in Kilkenny would want to play for Carlow either. And a lad not good enough to think that he might make it in the Black and Amber probably wouldn't be good enough to justify leaving off a good Carlow man off the Carlow team.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11831 - 21/04/2022 21:29:30    2412176

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I think what is needed is more of the teams playing in neighbouring counties or amalgamating for their club championships. For example, the Carlow hurlers playing in Kilkenny must raise the standard in Carlow, it certainly did when MLR beat Oulart a few years back.
I played in college with a lad from a top Wicklow club and he was a right hurler but you could see that he was used to that second extra you get in Wicklow hurling that you don't get elsewhere.
I would have no doubt that even Laois and Offaly would benefit as counties if they combined their club championships. I know it is not in the spirit of GAA history but do they want to improve and get up with the top teams or not?

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 22/04/2022 11:09:40    2412224

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Replying To Viking66:  "I really don't think any Carlow lads winning an all Ireland playing for Kilkenny are going to encourage kids in Carlow to take up hurling. I wouldn't say too many hurlers in Kilkenny would want to play for Carlow either. And a lad not good enough to think that he might make it in the Black and Amber probably wouldn't be good enough to justify leaving off a good Carlow man off the Carlow team."
I'd bet there are loads of kilkenny men struggling to break onto Cody's panel who'd walk onto the carlow team, and I'd bet many of them would be happy to, as it means inter County hurling for them.
Also, why wouldn't carlow men winning all Irelands persuade youngsters there to take up the game,, albeit with a different colour Jersey. When I was growing up the guy I wanted to emulate most of all was Kerrys Mike Frank Russell, and I wasn't really bothered what Jersey he had on.
Young kids need to know they've a chance to win the biggest prizes in front of the biggest crowds, so long as they're good enough to do so. The current system prevents that unless you're geographically lucky.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 22/04/2022 12:32:19    2412243

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Replying To Galway9801:  "I'd bet there are loads of kilkenny men struggling to break onto Cody's panel who'd walk onto the carlow team, and I'd bet many of them would be happy to, as it means inter County hurling for them.
Also, why wouldn't carlow men winning all Irelands persuade youngsters there to take up the game,, albeit with a different colour Jersey. When I was growing up the guy I wanted to emulate most of all was Kerrys Mike Frank Russell, and I wasn't really bothered what Jersey he had on.
Young kids need to know they've a chance to win the biggest prizes in front of the biggest crowds, so long as they're good enough to do so. The current system prevents that unless you're geographically lucky."
I think pride of place is more important to kids than you think. Also if a load of Kilkenny men "walked" onto Carlows hurling team instead of Carlow men that would surely make a kid growing up in Carlow more likely to choose football or even rugby.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11831 - 22/04/2022 13:53:41    2412275

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think pride of place is more important to kids than you think. Also if a load of Kilkenny men "walked" onto Carlows hurling team instead of Carlow men that would surely make a kid growing up in Carlow more likely to choose football or even rugby."
Not so long as they're good enough.
Besides, a load of non Connacht men playing for connacht has done nothing to put young kids here off taking up rugby I guarantee you.
Don't blame them. Very few kids in say, sligo, are going to commit to hurling /football long term when they know that no matter how good they are, when they seek success and glory the gaa will close the doors on them.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 22/04/2022 15:13:22    2412300

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Replying To Viking66:  "I think pride of place is more important to kids than you think. Also if a load of Kilkenny men "walked" onto Carlows hurling team instead of Carlow men that would surely make a kid growing up in Carlow more likely to choose football or even rugby."
If pride of place was that important to kids I think we wouldn't be seeing so many Liverpool, united etc jerseys around (although the latter have gone into hiding lately),also club transfers are quite common for example, and would be way more common imo only for the players are afraid of criticism.
Re your second point I disagree, giving kids in carlow a realistic opportunity to play in an all Ireland final and perform on the biggest stage (which they don't have now) would make the game more attractive to kids imo.

Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1705 - 22/04/2022 18:59:45    2412347

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