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The real solution here is to transfer coaches in to every county in Ireland and give every young lad a chance to hurl. It is a failing of the GAA that a young lad born in Longford or Sligo has a zero percent chance of hurling at the top level, given their populations are probably comparable to Kilkenny.
Every child in the country deserves the chance to pick up a hurl and get the coaching required in the game, not some lip service off a county board who view hurling as a nuisance.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 17/04/2022 13:01:39
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No kids in Wexford have seen Wexford win an All Ireland and the chances of any of them winning one is miniscule but there's still hundreds maybe thousands of them bringing their hurls to school in the mornings to hurl before school starts, it's called Hurling365.
Just look at the crowd out on the pitch at half time of every Wexford home game or club game in Wexford Park.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 376 - 17/04/2022 15:58:11
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Replying To WEX98: "No kids in Wexford have seen Wexford win an All Ireland and the chances of any of them winning one is miniscule but there's still hundreds maybe thousands of them bringing their hurls to school in the mornings to hurl before school starts, it's called Hurling365.
Just look at the crowd out on the pitch at half time of every Wexford home game or club game in Wexford Park." That's to do with tradition as much as anything, it's historically there, passed down from father to son.
Different kettle of fish trying to build a culture, and I feel giving kids a chance to dream, to know that they have a chance of winning the sports greatest prizes would help to develop that culture.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 17/04/2022 17:38:15
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Replying To Galway9801: "That's to do with tradition as much as anything, it's historically there, passed down from father to son.
Different kettle of fish trying to build a culture, and I feel giving kids a chance to dream, to know that they have a chance of winning the sports greatest prizes would help to develop that culture." Transferring in players that can't make it in the "traditional" hurling counties won't make any difference.
Maybe a divisional team. So if your playing for your county in the lower tiers you get the chance to compete for Liam Mccarthy with the "all stars" of that tier.
WEX98 (Wexford) - Posts: 376 - 17/04/2022 19:00:44
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Replying To Galway9801: "If anything it would improve it, a transfer system works both ways, guys not necessarily getting a look in in counties like kilkenny could play for Carlow or Laois, while not good enough for kilkenny they'd surely do a lot to help a weaker county.
And while playing in an all Ireland might not be the most important thing for a player, hurlers in weaker counties I'm sure find it very disheartening to know they'll never get the chance." The best hurler for Donegal was an average club player in Clare I believe it was. I think more likely what you would see is most of the lower counties filled with players from Munster/Galway/Kilkenny and the local players being drowned out.
joeteor (Donegal) - Posts: 217 - 17/04/2022 19:31:26
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Replying To StoreysTash: "The real solution here is to transfer coaches in to every county in Ireland and give every young lad a chance to hurl. It is a failing of the GAA that a young lad born in Longford or Sligo has a zero percent chance of hurling at the top level, given their populations are probably comparable to Kilkenny.
Every child in the country deserves the chance to pick up a hurl and get the coaching required in the game, not some lip service off a county board who view hurling as a nuisance." Spot on.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 17/04/2022 19:42:41
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Replying To WEX98: "No kids in Wexford have seen Wexford win an All Ireland and the chances of any of them winning one is miniscule but there's still hundreds maybe thousands of them bringing their hurls to school in the mornings to hurl before school starts, it's called Hurling365.
Just look at the crowd out on the pitch at half time of every Wexford home game or club game in Wexford Park." Spot on also.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 17/04/2022 19:42:53
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Replying To WEX98: "Transferring in players that can't make it in the "traditional" hurling counties won't make any difference.
Maybe a divisional team. So if your playing for your county in the lower tiers you get the chance to compete for Liam Mccarthy with the "all stars" of that tier." Yeah I'd be on board with trying out a divisional team too,, like the kerry club championship,
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 18/04/2022 08:40:06
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Replying To Galway9801: "That's to do with tradition as much as anything, it's historically there, passed down from father to son.
Different kettle of fish trying to build a culture, and I feel giving kids a chance to dream, to know that they have a chance of winning the sports greatest prizes would help to develop that culture." I agree with you here re tradition, but if every young boy and girl received proper coaching from under 6, then there is no reason why a boy from Donegal can't hurl at a decent level. Coaching is key though and investment in the game is equally vital because it can't be done on a shoestring either if it is to be a success.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 18/04/2022 08:59:35
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Replying To StoreysTash: "I agree with you here re tradition, but if every young boy and girl received proper coaching from under 6, then there is no reason why a boy from Donegal can't hurl at a decent level. Coaching is key though and investment in the game is equally vital because it can't be done on a shoestring either if it is to be a success." For sure, but you can take a horse to water but can't make it drink,, no matter how many coaches there are, it will be very difficult to encourage youngsters from a county like donegal to commit to hurling long term if they believe that there's never any chance of achieving anything in the game, bar winning a tournament that almost no one cares about.
Soccer and more recently rugby have exploded in popularity in this country over the last 3 generations and in my opinion that's largely down to the fact that kids grow up dreaming about emulating the likes of Brian ó Driscoll,, Roy Keane Mo salah etc, and that motivates them to commit to those sports.
It's harsh but true to say that pretty much no kid in donegal will grow up wanting to emulate their counties hurlers.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 19/04/2022 12:51:04
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Replying To Galway9801: "For sure, but you can take a horse to water but can't make it drink,, no matter how many coaches there are, it will be very difficult to encourage youngsters from a county like donegal to commit to hurling long term if they believe that there's never any chance of achieving anything in the game, bar winning a tournament that almost no one cares about.
Soccer and more recently rugby have exploded in popularity in this country over the last 3 generations and in my opinion that's largely down to the fact that kids grow up dreaming about emulating the likes of Brian ó Driscoll,, Roy Keane Mo salah etc, and that motivates them to commit to those sports.
It's harsh but true to say that pretty much no kid in donegal will grow up wanting to emulate their counties hurlers." They don't have to grow up wanting to emulate the county hurlers.
They could grow up though targeting a Tony Forristal, minor or U20 with the right coaching and promotion of the game.
We can't just shrug our shoulders and say "sure that's what it is" and deny young lads a chance to play the game.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 19/04/2022 13:33:57
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Replying To Galway9801: "For sure, but you can take a horse to water but can't make it drink,, no matter how many coaches there are, it will be very difficult to encourage youngsters from a county like donegal to commit to hurling long term if they believe that there's never any chance of achieving anything in the game, bar winning a tournament that almost no one cares about.
Soccer and more recently rugby have exploded in popularity in this country over the last 3 generations and in my opinion that's largely down to the fact that kids grow up dreaming about emulating the likes of Brian ó Driscoll,, Roy Keane Mo salah etc, and that motivates them to commit to those sports.
It's harsh but true to say that pretty much no kid in donegal will grow up wanting to emulate their counties hurlers." I think being able to earn a living from Rugby and soccer is also a big draw.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 19/04/2022 14:17:08
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Replying To Viking66: "I think being able to earn a living from Rugby and soccer is also a big draw." Kids at 5 or 6 through to their early teens , when playing sport, avd choosing which sports to play, don't think about earning money.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 19/04/2022 19:39:56
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Replying To Galway9801: "Kids at 5 or 6 through to their early teens , when playing sport, avd choosing which sports to play, don't think about earning money." I wasn't talking about that age group. Most I know at that age around here play hurling, football, soccer and some play rugby. It's when they get to their mid/late teens they usually have to choose. And of course careers come into it then.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 20/04/2022 10:19:10
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Replying To Viking66: "I wasn't talking about that age group. Most I know at that age around here play hurling, football, soccer and some play rugby. It's when they get to their mid/late teens they usually have to choose. And of course careers come into it then." Most kids there might play various sports but in counties like carlow and Laois, and even here in Galway city, I doubt theres too many who would play hurling as their preferred sport.
Giving them a realistic chance of winning an all Ireland via a transfer system would change that, perhaps just in a small way, but every little helps.
Just because some of them will stick with the soccer or rugby on the very very slim chance that they'll end up making a living off it doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 20/04/2022 12:07:50
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Replying To Galway9801: "Most kids there might play various sports but in counties like carlow and Laois, and even here in Galway city, I doubt theres too many who would play hurling as their preferred sport.
Giving them a realistic chance of winning an all Ireland via a transfer system would change that, perhaps just in a small way, but every little helps.
Just because some of them will stick with the soccer or rugby on the very very slim chance that they'll end up making a living off it doesn't mean it shouldn't be tried." In the so-called weaker counties what you find is the pockets of hurling are just smaller. Less clubs. But in those pockets hurling is usually the number 1 sport. I had a customer from Donegal down to collect a bike last week. He was telling me there's only 1 wee area of the county where hurling is strong. But up there most lads hurl. He was a football man BTW. Areas of North Kerry the same. The glens of Antrim. The Ards peninsula in Down. I know in some small areas of Carlow hurling is the most popular sport also for example. And they are very proud Carlow men. They hurl in the Kilkenny leagues some of them but any of the lads I know from there wouldn't want to hurl for Kilkenny. Likely the same in areas all over the country.
Over the years there have been a very few great Carlow and Kilkenny hurlers who hurled for Wexford due to moving here for work etc. I'm sure if you really badly wanted to hurl for a different county and you were serious about it you would move to that county and transfer to the local club. And if you were good enough you would get selected. That's possible under the current rules. If you weren't that serious why should it be made easier for you by relaxing the existing rules? Top counties would be very unlikely to select a lad that wasn't serious enough to move there whatever the rules were and however good a hurler he was.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 20/04/2022 12:40:44
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Replying To Viking66: "In the so-called weaker counties what you find is the pockets of hurling are just smaller. Less clubs. But in those pockets hurling is usually the number 1 sport. I had a customer from Donegal down to collect a bike last week. He was telling me there's only 1 wee area of the county where hurling is strong. But up there most lads hurl. He was a football man BTW. Areas of North Kerry the same. The glens of Antrim. The Ards peninsula in Down. I know in some small areas of Carlow hurling is the most popular sport also for example. And they are very proud Carlow men. They hurl in the Kilkenny leagues some of them but any of the lads I know from there wouldn't want to hurl for Kilkenny. Likely the same in areas all over the country.
Over the years there have been a very few great Carlow and Kilkenny hurlers who hurled for Wexford due to moving here for work etc. I'm sure if you really badly wanted to hurl for a different county and you were serious about it you would move to that county and transfer to the local club. And if you were good enough you would get selected. That's possible under the current rules. If you weren't that serious why should it be made easier for you by relaxing the existing rules? Top counties would be very unlikely to select a lad that wasn't serious enough to move there whatever the rules were and however good a hurler he was." I've never denied that there's pockets of hurling in weaker counties, it wasn't that long ago that Loughiel won an all Ireland title, ditto North kerry as you mentioned, its about promoting hurling in areas where participation is low, which applies to most of these counties, whatever about the odd area here and there.
I think you're being a bit harsh with your second point. Expecting someone to leave a County where they might live and work, have a family, to join another in order to try to win an all Ireland is borderline ridiculous imo, and just because someone would be unwilling to do that doesn't mean they're not serious about the game.
My preference would be to see the GAA try to accommodate these talents instead of the other way round.
Galway9801 (Galway) - Posts: 1708 - 20/04/2022 14:11:42
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I'd be in favour of something like this, but not a full transfer system which allows players move with little restrictions. What I think would work best would be... (using Carlow and Kilkenny as example):
- Players from neighbouring division 1 counties, who plays with a club within a 15km radius of the neighbouring boarder, are eligible to with a division 2 or below county. The reason for the 15km radius is that there would be at least some a higher possibility of connection to the county they are joining, (ie family, work, school, etc). Players from clubs like Graiguenamanagh,, Gowran (Young irelands), Blacks and Whits (Skeogh) would be switch to Carlow
- 3 Year Rule: A player must wait 3 years since they played intercounty hurling for a Div 1 side before declaring to play for a Div 2 or below side. Also, same rule applies if they wish to revert and play with Div 1 team again. This stops constant switching back and forth and requires players to make a serious commitment. So if a player from Gowran wants to play for Carlow, he must wait 3 years if they played hurling for KK at any level, Likewise, if they wish to return to playing for KK, they must wait 3 years since playing for Carlow.
- Age restrictions: Players eligible to switch counties must be over the age of 23. Larger counties need to be protected also, so that if a weaker county comes into money, they are not in danger of losing promising young talent.
- Designated Counties: The established top 9 teams in the country in hurling are only the ones that are impacted by this. Teams like Laois, Antrim, Westmeath, etc, who yoyo between Div1 and 2 shouldn't be impacted. This can be reviewed3-5 years.
- Player Limits: Counties can only have 5 Div 1 declared players on the panel at any given time. This is to ensure rule is not abused and there is still large majority of locally based players on the panel at any given time.
Obviously, this is just a rough idea, but for counties trying hard with small playing pools this would make a real difference. This would also give good club players with ambition to play intercounty hurling an opportunity to do.
TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 236 - 20/04/2022 14:44:55
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Replying To Galway9801: "I've never denied that there's pockets of hurling in weaker counties, it wasn't that long ago that Loughiel won an all Ireland title, ditto North kerry as you mentioned, its about promoting hurling in areas where participation is low, which applies to most of these counties, whatever about the odd area here and there.
I think you're being a bit harsh with your second point. Expecting someone to leave a County where they might live and work, have a family, to join another in order to try to win an all Ireland is borderline ridiculous imo, and just because someone would be unwilling to do that doesn't mean they're not serious about the game.
My preference would be to see the GAA try to accommodate these talents instead of the other way round." If they are that embedded in the fabric of the county where they are why would they want to play against that county? Do you actually know anyone who would play for another county just to hope to win something? And do you know many top intercounty managers, managing a county likely to win something anyway, who will take a lad from another county at the expense of a medal for 1 of his own?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 20/04/2022 15:07:11
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Replying To Galway9801: "I've never denied that there's pockets of hurling in weaker counties, it wasn't that long ago that Loughiel won an all Ireland title, ditto North kerry as you mentioned, its about promoting hurling in areas where participation is low, which applies to most of these counties, whatever about the odd area here and there.
I think you're being a bit harsh with your second point. Expecting someone to leave a County where they might live and work, have a family, to join another in order to try to win an all Ireland is borderline ridiculous imo, and just because someone would be unwilling to do that doesn't mean they're not serious about the game.
My preference would be to see the GAA try to accommodate these talents instead of the other way round." And what effect would transfers have on the morale of the group who likely played with each other since underage development squads?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11864 - 20/04/2022 15:08:29
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