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2022 All-Ireland Hurling Championship thread

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Replying To foreveryoung:  "Viking, you make many valid and interesting contributions to HS threads. However, I really don't like comments like, " We only lost to Clare by 3 points last year after giving them a 10 point headstart in the 1st 20 or so minutes."

The first 20 or so minutes were also part of the game. You judge a game on its totality, be it 70 minutes, 70+, or extra-time. Selectively extracting any segment of a game can convey whatever impression that's wanted to be put across.

That's my first issue. My second issue is that Wexford didn't "give" Clare a 10 point start. Instead, Clare "took" a 10 point start.

Nobody "gives" anything on hurling field, bar the referee."
We didn't play at all in the 1st 20 minutes. Were you at the game? Or even watch it on TV? We lost because we weren't good enough over 70+ minutes. By 3 points. And I finished the post with "we still lost though".
Selectively extracting parts of posts can convey whatever impression that's wanted to be put across; )

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5313 - 25/05/2022 15:30:30    2420189

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Replying To tiobraid:  "I wouldnt be so sure of that. Tipp are unlikely to go back training until after the Joe Mc final (if they need to) and motivation will be at an all time low. Kerry would be on a major high having played two of their biggest ever games. I would not be one bit surprised though if Kerry do win that the GAA will decide not to schedule the game and put Kerry into a 6 team Munster cship.
The relegation/promotion format is madness though. Its complicated by the provincial aspect but the most sensible thing to do this year would be Tipp to play Laois - and Kerry to be promoted (should they win Joe Mac). Going forward I'd see nothing wrong with the last team in Munster playing second last in Leinster and vice versa for a proper relegation play off type system. If things become too lopsided then another format would be needed but I think thats the fairest. Although the big caveat is that the weakest team in Leinster then tries to peak for these games - which is why I'm against the 6th team in Leinster - the lower teams are targetting one or two games each year to stay up."
Westmeath gave every game their best shot. And were maybe more battlehardened when they came up against Laois as a result. Maybe this will be the template for other counties to follow down the line.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5313 - 25/05/2022 15:44:02    2420193

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Replying To daveboy:  "From a club perspective that 6-8 week gap between league and championship is crucial to get what you want in place for the championship. Most clubs play league to get game time, look at fringe players and build up a block of meaningful stats to analyse ahead of your lead in to championship. Most clubs play each other in league and championship so wouldn't be giving much away and then organise meaningful challenge matches inside and preferably outside the county to work on the shape and tactics for the championship. All this while keeping county lads informed.

The championship then is played in better conditions retaining more players. The inter County may be condensed but its condensed with matches. Previously you'd flog lads November December January February. Play league. Go back to club. Back to county. 6 - 8 weeks before championship. Then championship to September. That's nearly 11 months. Inter County hurlers don't want that anymore. Then club championship in October November December. Trust me club hurlers don't want that either."
As a club player, I definitely don't want to play club matches in October/November/December. But that said, I think he did make a good point that we now have 9 weeks with less than 9 matches. We have squeezed everything to within an inch of its life but how many counties will start their club championship before Liam McCarthy is presented? None.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1610 - 25/05/2022 15:47:04    2420195

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Replying To ElGranSenor:  "I think the current format is the best we've had. For years, senior inter-county players complained about the training sessions-to-games ratio. In the past, it was harsh on lads who had trained since before Christmas to be only guaranteed two Championship matches. Introducing the round-robin helped to address this issue, as well as meaning more home-and-away games at venues (Including pitches that didn't usually host big games like Cusack Park and Walsh Park). Another advantage of the round-robin is that league formats generally reward consistency; it's very hard to fluke your way to the top of a league table.

However, I don't like the way that some teams are now done for the year and we haven't even reached the last week-end in May. In Tipperary's case, it's fair as they lost four games out of four. But had Waterford won on Sunday, we would have had a situation where a team had won two games out of four in the round-robin yet were out of the Championship on May 22nd! Here's how I would address it:

Qualifiers R1: 4th place in Munster plays 4th place in Leinster at a neutral venue

Qualifiers R2: Winner of R1 match plays away to 3rd place from the other province
Other 3rd place team plays away to Joe McDonagh Cup winners

Winners of the two R2 matches advance to the QFs

I think this proposal would improve things for a number of reasons. Firstly, I don't think the Joe McDonagh losers should be in the All-Ireland Championship. As things stand, they have to play a Preliminary Quarter-Final against a fresh top-tier team 6/7 days after losing their biggest game of the year. Westmeath lost heavily enough to Wexford and Cork in 2018 and 2019; these teams aren't in a fit state of mind to play these games and they shouldn't be in the competition in the first place.

People talk about how Munster is stronger than Leinster; if that's the case, making the two 4th place teams play against each other and then having the winner play 3rd place from the other province allows the stronger province to have more teams make the back-end of the All-Ireland Championship. Hypothetically, this year we would have had Waterford versus Dublin. If Waterford had have won, they would have been away to Wexford; if Dublin had have won, they would have been away to Cork. If Munster is the stronger province, the above format would allow Munster to have 4 of their teams make the Final 6.

One potential concern is that allowing 4th place teams another chance rewards failure. In Waterford's case, they lost 3 out of 4 so the point initially seems valid. But let's look at previous 4th place teams in the round-robin era:

2018: Dublin (Won 1 and Lost 3 but lost the 3 games by 2 points, 2 points, and 1 point)
2018: Tipperary (Drew 2 and Lost 2 but lost the two games by 7 points and 2 points)
2019: Galway (Won 2, Drew 1, and Lost 1; Lost the one game by 5 points)
2019: Clare (Won 2 and Lost 2)
2022: Dublin (Won 3 and Lost 2)

Admittedly, Leinster has always had Offaly/Carlow/Laois/Westmeath which would skew things but the 4th placed teams have generally not been regularly hopped off. In some of the cases, like Galway in 2019, eliminating them for coming 4th seemed excessivly harsh. And besides, for a 4th place team to win the All-Ireland under my proposed format, they'd have to win 5 consecutive knock-out games. Yes, it gives teams who haven't had the best year so far another chance but fair play to them if they take that chance!"
So all those matches to eliminate 1 team? LOL.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1610 - 25/05/2022 15:47:51    2420197

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tiobraid, do you think Colm Bonner will be back next year? I was talking to my dad last night and he thinks Colm Bonner is Wexford's worst manager ever (he did say Joachaim Kelly was as bad). The team were not fit, had no game plan, and while we were a poor side he made us even worse.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1610 - 25/05/2022 15:50:00    2420199

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Replying To Viking66:  "Westmeath gave every game their best shot. And were maybe more battlehardened when they came up against Laois as a result. Maybe this will be the template for other counties to follow down the line."
Ya to be fair they certainly did this year. I'm not so sure about Laois

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 3510 - 25/05/2022 16:04:28    2420207

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "tiobraid, do you think Colm Bonner will be back next year? I was talking to my dad last night and he thinks Colm Bonner is Wexford's worst manager ever (he did say Joachaim Kelly was as bad). The team were not fit, had no game plan, and while we were a poor side he made us even worse."
I do think he will be there next year yes, whether he should I dont know. Willie Maher seems to be making a lot of noise in the background which I think won't help his chances.
As I said II do believe that both fitness and the effects of Liam Sheedys era has left Tipp with an impossible task in 2022. Tipp undoubtedly were missing a lot of players this year compared to other teams which didnt help Bonnar.
Theres no question Brendan and Paudie were past their best as is Seamie and Bonner Maher who will probably both retire. I also doubt we will see Bubbles back. The form of our older players this year has been poor - Ronan Maher, Forde, Breen, Dan Mc, Barry H and John Mcgrath are the lads that should be driving things on at this stage but most of them arent even guaranteed starters in a team that has been well below the top teams.
Next year I'd expect we will have a far stronger panel with Bryan O'Mara, Ciaran Connolly, Eoghan Connolly, Niall O'Meara, Willie Connors all back. With that I'd expect the likes of Conor Bowe, Morgan, Browne and Mark Kehoe to be another year on in their development. Some of those mentioned arent starters but would strengthen the panel. Trying to find the positives is hard but I think there are some there. Fitness and S&C needs to be targetted in a big way though.

tiobraid (Tipperary) - Posts: 3510 - 25/05/2022 16:15:03    2420215

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "As a club player, I definitely don't want to play club matches in October/November/December. But that said, I think he did make a good point that we now have 9 weeks with less than 9 matches. We have squeezed everything to within an inch of its life but how many counties will start their club championship before Liam McCarthy is presented? None."
I remember in the 90s there'd be weeks between intercounty fixtures. Club championships were run off around these. The league took up most of the winter. The championship, if you were winning, might take up the whole summer. Yet you might only play 4 games to win Liam. Supporters, players and the GAA hierarchy wanted more games. That's what has us where we are.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5313 - 25/05/2022 16:49:42    2420223

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "tiobraid, do you think Colm Bonner will be back next year? I was talking to my dad last night and he thinks Colm Bonner is Wexford's worst manager ever (he did say Joachaim Kelly was as bad). The team were not fit, had no game plan, and while we were a poor side he made us even worse."
I think I've posted the same on this myself. While likely not as old as your dad Bonnar was comfortably the worst manager I can remember. Anybody I know who has met him has said he's a really sound fella and hurling mad. But sadly for him that doesn't make anyone a good or successful manager.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5313 - 25/05/2022 16:52:05    2420225

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Replying To tiobraid:  "Ya to be fair they certainly did this year. I'm not so sure about Laois"
Laois have tried to peak for the 1 game the last few years in the League and Championship.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 5313 - 25/05/2022 16:52:44    2420227

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "As a club player, I definitely don't want to play club matches in October/November/December. But that said, I think he did make a good point that we now have 9 weeks with less than 9 matches. We have squeezed everything to within an inch of its life but how many counties will start their club championship before Liam McCarthy is presented? None."
You must have a gap between munster/leinster final. AI prelimsry QFinal. AI Q final Semi final and Final. Hence the gap. Isn't it nice inter county hurlers knocked out can get a break for a few weeks before back into club. Also club set ups are planning their entire year around 3rd/4th week of July start. S&c, challenge matches, proper prep is needed over these next 8 weeks to peak for club championship. The whole reason is so its structured with a set weekend list of matches to plan around.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 801 - 25/05/2022 17:09:45    2420238

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "So all those matches to eliminate 1 team? LOL."
Using the same logic, I take it that you don't like the current formats of the Wexford Club Championships then?

ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 20 - 25/05/2022 18:10:15    2420245

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Replying To daveboy:  "You must have a gap between munster/leinster final. AI prelimsry QFinal. AI Q final Semi final and Final. Hence the gap. Isn't it nice inter county hurlers knocked out can get a break for a few weeks before back into club. Also club set ups are planning their entire year around 3rd/4th week of July start. S&c, challenge matches, proper prep is needed over these next 8 weeks to peak for club championship. The whole reason is so its structured with a set weekend list of matches to plan around."
I agree with all that dave. It'd be much simpler if the provincial championship was knock-out and then a round robin.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1610 - 26/05/2022 09:06:37    2420272

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I see all tickets for munster final that went on sale this morning have sold out..should those tickets not have been given to clubs first?snything left over then can go on general sale..people were told by clubs that getting tickets through Ticketmaster was their best option ,don't think it should be like that..am I being cranky this morning??

CTGAA10 (Limerick) - Posts: 1721 - 26/05/2022 11:27:32    2420302

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Replying To StoreysTash:  "I agree with all that dave. It'd be much simpler if the provincial championship was knock-out and then a round robin."
Ya I can see that too. I think it's probably inevitable.

daveboy (Limerick) - Posts: 801 - 26/05/2022 11:27:40    2420303

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some demand for tickets for the munster final demand in clubs far outweighs supply ......will be a sellout.

munsterchamps (Limerick) - Posts: 1028 - 26/05/2022 11:35:23    2420309

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I see all tickets for munster final that went on sale this morning have sold out..should those tickets not have been given to clubs first?snything left over then can go on general sale..people were told by clubs that getting tickets through Ticketmaster was their best option ,don't think it should be like that..am I being cranky this morning??"
Cranky.

Clubs got all the stand tickets. Only terrace went on sale today. If I was a betting man, the clubs will return some stand tickets and these will go on sale next week.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2247 - 26/05/2022 11:53:56    2420311

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I see all tickets for munster final that went on sale this morning have sold out..should those tickets not have been given to clubs first?snything left over then can go on general sale..people were told by clubs that getting tickets through Ticketmaster was their best option ,don't think it should be like that..am I being cranky this morning??"
Fully agree,not blaming the clubs at all but madness to be told your better off getting a ticket through ticketmaster then your club.

cityman73 (Limerick) - Posts: 622 - 26/05/2022 12:05:16    2420316

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Replying To CTGAA10:  "I see all tickets for munster final that went on sale this morning have sold out..should those tickets not have been given to clubs first?snything left over then can go on general sale..people were told by clubs that getting tickets through Ticketmaster was their best option ,don't think it should be like that..am I being cranky this morning??"
I agree 100%

You should have to produce ticket stubs from previous matches when demand is that high

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 1936 - 26/05/2022 12:29:55    2420323

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I agree 100%

You should have to produce ticket stubs from previous matches when demand is that high"
There is some logic to this.

I remember seeing Clare fans crying in the stands after we won in 2013. Some of them hadnt been to a match in years.

I would love some sort of online account system that prioritises people who have been to earlier rounds or if its a first round game, looks at the prior season.

While giving the best tickets to clubs is probably fair, I know of lots of hardcore Clare fans who are not club members in Clare as they live in Dublin/Galway/Cork for example and yet they go to most league and all championship matches every year. They are disadvantaged. Also there are plenty of club members who go to no games but get a good stand ticket for the Munster final. Thats not 100% fair either.

A system whereby the regular attenders, those who brave the January cold to go to Munster League matches, those who attended the Clare Tipperary championship game when most of the Clare county had little faith should be prioritised for tickets. Once they have been allotted, next up should be clubs and general sale last of all.

LohansRedHelmet (Clare) - Posts: 2247 - 26/05/2022 14:36:04    2420362

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